lurker's comment:
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SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game
- Thread starter TheOverseer714
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Deity
Lurker's comment:
You've been sort of lucky with what the Vikings sent at you; the occasional regular warrior and archer. This quote from the turnlog illustrates best how thin you still are up north:
It's probably a matter of taking out the Dutch and then hanging in there a bit, waiting until you've built up enough, while hoping for one of your elites to get lucky.
You've been sort of lucky with what the Vikings sent at you; the occasional regular warrior and archer. This quote from the turnlog illustrates best how thin you still are up north:
You're gonna have a laugh if Greece sends a few Hoplites! The problem is that only Berlin is spitting out units at a decent pace, and they were needed down south against the Dutch. Your production capacity is limited; it's Berlin, Leipzig, and the rest isn't much.
It's probably a matter of taking out the Dutch and then hanging in there a bit, waiting until you've built up enough, while hoping for one of your elites to get lucky.
I agree completely with that. I exaggerated somewhat, but only a little; when the landing of two warriors necessitates shifting defensive units around because we don't have two archers available to kill two warriors, that's a bad sign.
That, and we need lots of catapults. Miles and miles of catapults.
I cringe a bit every time I think about what Persia's going to be lining up for us.
That, and we need lots of catapults. Miles and miles of catapults.
I cringe a bit every time I think about what Persia's going to be lining up for us.
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
They may have a ways to go, but we won't have a defensive unit that can consistently beat an immortal until we get Gunpowder and musketmen. I wish we were Scandinavia now. Oh well, it WAS random. At least we didn't get a civ that needs Iron for the UU.
Yeah, because all you guys have to do, is crawl your way to motorized transportation.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Am I up or is Overseer?
We will call it a skip, with the work-week beginning, i won't be available til friday, and why hold the game up?
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King
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I can play if Lanzelot is busy.
Curious-the harbor in Nurnberg-is that for the food? My 2 cents would be I might have built the barracks as there are grasslands to feed the town and I assume we need vet land units ahead of veteran galleys. We could interdict Viking and Greek landings, I suppose. A trade hub isn't going to mean much till we get established on Greek or Viking turf.
I yield if I'm missing something.
Curious-the harbor in Nurnberg-is that for the food? My 2 cents would be I might have built the barracks as there are grasslands to feed the town and I assume we need vet land units ahead of veteran galleys. We could interdict Viking and Greek landings, I suppose. A trade hub isn't going to mean much till we get established on Greek or Viking turf.
I yield if I'm missing something.
Not sure exactly what it's for. I didn't start it, and contemplated changing it, but it is going to need one at some point, and it may as well work some coastal tiles to at least give us pretty good commerce. I highly doubt if anyone will be offended if you decide you prefer a barracks there instead.
We are sufficiently crowded there that having it work a few coastal tiles (and two forests at size 6), and leaving the grassland tiles to Koln, works out just fine. Koln can produce units, Nurnberg can produce galleys. There's talk of using galleys to mount an invasion on the Greeks at some point--I'm not sure I'm on board with that being a smart idea, but what the heck, it'll be fun.
We are sufficiently crowded there that having it work a few coastal tiles (and two forests at size 6), and leaving the grassland tiles to Koln, works out just fine. Koln can produce units, Nurnberg can produce galleys. There's talk of using galleys to mount an invasion on the Greeks at some point--I'm not sure I'm on board with that being a smart idea, but what the heck, it'll be fun.
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Deity
Lurker's comment:
Changing to a barracks would mean losing shields. Why not finish it and make some catapults instead?
Hannover would have been a better choice for a prioritising a harbour, though, since it's got a fish.
Changing to a barracks would mean losing shields. Why not finish it and make some catapults instead?
Hannover would have been a better choice for a prioritising a harbour, though, since it's got a fish.
I aggree with that and also with the request for catapults. (Especially if Greece starts to unload Hoplites... For that case it may be good to have a vet galley on "coast protection duty". Sinking them Hoplites while at sea is the easiest way to get rid of them... And it doesn't trigger the Greek Golden Age.)
However, there's also something else to consider: once we have the horses hooked up, we should stop building spears&archers and build horsemen exclusively. They can cover our northern coast more easily than the slow archers and they'll have about 50% less losses! And hopefully we'll be able to do some leader fishing at the Scandinavian landing site.
So basically the plan for home defense is: station a couple of catapults around the coast, so that we can make at least two shots whereever the AI lands, and then assemble the horses at that site to throw them back into the sea immediately. Then we won't have to wait for them to attack us (or pillage our improvements).
The horsemen are fast, so we can station them whereever we need military police, we don't necessarily need to station them directly at the landing site.
I would be free to play tomorrow, but as I just played the turn before DWetzel, I would prefer someone else to play first. (Doesn't make much sense, if DWetzel and me keep taking turns, and the rest just stands by and watches...)
And finally we should now try to establish some kind of "regular schedule"... How about we just wait till Friday, and let Overseer take it? Three days isn't that long. We can already prepare the pre-flight plan for him and discuss it a bit.
At the same time this should give GamezRule enough time to fix his computer problems, so he can play on the weekend and then we're "back on track".
I did it for commerce reasons. The plan is to let Berlin, Köln and Hamburg use the grassland/forest tiles for high production, while Nürnberg can work half a dozen coastal tiles for high commerce. (Later with a library it can do quite a bit of research.)
With a cramped core like ours we need to make good use of all the coastal tiles.
Usually I would say: keep every town you can! Even with a SF, a settler is worth a lot. However, razing Eindhoven is ok because of the following: the area south of Amsterdam will already be so corrupt, that it probably makes sense to ICS it. Eindhoven messes up the CxC grid, blocking 3 town sites. So we should move it 1N and then we can ICS that area as follows:
Main purpose: increase unit support for our switch to Monarchy.
But I think we should try to preserve Utrecht! It will not delay us at all: I think we already have enough units marching south for finishing up the Dutch and establishing the choke-point. New units produced in the core are now likely to be kept north for a) homeland protection and b) preparing the invasion of Greece. While they are waiting for the voyage to Greece, they can be used for capturing Utrecht at any time. Letting one single size-1 Dutch town survive a little longer doesn't hurt at all.
The next settlers from Leipzig have more important stuff to do: Get the horses online asap! I neither like the idea of rushing culture (no more pop-rushing, please...) nor the idea of burning a worker for a colony. Two well placed towns can take care of that quickly:
It's true, we could settle directly next to the horses, but in that area the 2-food tiles are so scarce, I would like to turn one desert and one hill into 2-food tiles by using them as city centers.
Lanzelot
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Are we planning ICS between Rotterdam and Amsterdam? The forest SE of the horses is on a river. We'd lose the chopping shields but would be a good city site too (just looking at the screen shots, not the game here at work)
I think the area north of Amsterdam is still "productive", especially once we have a Forbidden Palace in NC5 or Hamburg. So ICS there would probably be unnecessary.
IvanDolvich2
Order of Lenin
lurker's comment: Nice laydown, Lanzelot! This only a lurker's perspective from screenshots only, but I think the plan to lay waste to the southern Dutch and then ICS is a good one. I'm not sure about the peninsula position, because I think there is merit to a canal city that will act a part of the choke point. If you do decide to mount an amphibious invasion (of which I am a fan), the canal gives you more options to move troops and ships to other locations.
I think the vet galley (or two) to clean up Greek landings before they happen is extremely prudent.
Looks like this game is straightening out. Make sure plans are thought through and stop for discussion when things come up.
I'm enjoying the lurk, now back to my closet
I think the vet galley (or two) to clean up Greek landings before they happen is extremely prudent.
Looks like this game is straightening out. Make sure plans are thought through and stop for discussion when things come up.
I'm enjoying the lurk, now back to my closet
Definitely agree with the canal city. That will be very useful to us in the future, saving something like 10 turns of sailing around our peninsula. That is well worth not having one city ICSed into the area.
I'd like to see a bit more hard data on just how corrupt those cities will be (and remember, we don't have a FP yet) before we fully commit to ICSing that peninsula though. I'm used to playing larger maps, so am not sure exactly what we'll be looking at corruption wise. If it's even in the 50%-60% range, I would think we would want them to be used as productive cities rather than ICS bait.
I'd like to see a bit more hard data on just how corrupt those cities will be (and remember, we don't have a FP yet) before we fully commit to ICSing that peninsula though. I'm used to playing larger maps, so am not sure exactly what we'll be looking at corruption wise. If it's even in the 50%-60% range, I would think we would want them to be used as productive cities rather than ICS bait.
lurker's comment: I'm not sure about the peninsula position, because I think there is merit to a canal city that will act a part of the choke point. If you do decide to mount an amphibious invasion (of which I am a fan), the canal gives you more options to move troops and ships to other locations.
Good idea! I didn't think of that yet...
Need to check CivAssist, when I get home, but I think when I checked during my turn set, CivAssist calculated 60-70% for Amsterdam, and a few tiles south of Amsterdam it was already getting into the 70-80% range. However, this was for Despotism. We ought to re-calculate for Monarchy.
In general I agree that up to 60% is still ok for "semi-productive" towns. When it gets to 70% it's no longer worth it.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I like the canal city, in which case, don't burn Eindhoven, capture the Hague first, since it fits in the plans for whatever we do next.
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
A canal city. We can launch quick invasions of Persia and Greece from, say, Amsterdam.
Here the exact values for Despotism:
Amsterdam is at 67%, Eindhoven already at 90%. So ICS definitely makes sense, because the values won't be that much lower on Monarchy.
Amsterdam is at 67%, Eindhoven already at 90%. So ICS definitely makes sense, because the values won't be that much lower on Monarchy.
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