SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

I didn't know about the unhappiness that makes it not so useful. Can you remind me how many unhappy faces are produced when drafting 2 or 3 units and how many pop points are consumed.

I knew aboout the 1/2 XP but we will still be building a lot of units which will get 6XP due to Theocracy.

A city only needs a barracks to produce 2/2XP draft units which can be used for first wave attacks behind the artillery where to use a 4/5XP units would be a waste.

It does mean we should try to draft in non-christian cities 2/2XP and try to poprush in christian cities 6/5XP to get the max benefit out of both civics.

I clarify:
- The number of units depends from the city's size (you cannot ask for a given number).
- The unhappy faces are/is always 1, as the decreased pop (not completely sure of this last).
- When you draft with barracks units gets 2 xp (instead of 4), with barracks + Theo. 3 xp (useless) - (instead of 6).

Your plan seem good, anyway we can adjust it depending on events.

Good luck.

 

[Sweetacshon]

2 things....

Keep an eye on the land% in terms of dom victory. It would be heartbreaking to lose like that now.

Does Merum want to play now if he is home and able to?

 

[Merum]

Well, I think Perugia is in the middle of a turnset. I'm in China now, and can probably play tomorrow night. However, I'm content to wait for Perugia to finish.

 

[Perugia]

Here is the result of my turnset which went as expected vs Mao and KK but we ended up allying with Biz against Hatty. Read the spoiler to find out why....

Spoiler What Happened :

Turn 0 – 1786AD
As agreed we give Biz AL to DoW on KK & Hatty and get 390g & WM to boot. +4 military struggle with KK moves him to friendly. Swap sheep for fur. He still won’t trade combustion. We have no sickness so cancel banana-sheep deal with Hatty.

Find KK frigate + galleon force near Aryan.

MM workers & GP production. Set science to 0% to gain some thinking time. Populate queue for Samarqand, Karakorum & Turfan so 1st turn production is not lost.

Turn 1 – 1788AD
Biz SoD sails East shadowed by our cav. Seems like Alexandria is the target. Send 2/4 cannon home to upgrade. Loads of pillaging

Turn 2 -1790AD
Hatty has Kremlin.
Rushing some jails as needed. Rushing at Karakorum its starving.

Turn 3 – 1792AD

Biz asks us to DoW on Hatty. We agree even though this is not in the plan cos Biz has too many cavalry at the moment. He is now pleased
Hatty immediately asks for a cease fire if we’ll trade assembly line for combustion. No way my dear. We can make peace in a few more turns.

Biz captures Teoihuacan from under our nose with a 10 cavalry stack.

KK frigate unloads outside Aryan but we have a reception committee for them.
Elephantine is razed.

Turn 4 – 1794AD

Biz has softened up Alexandria & Pi-Ramesses for us. We raze them for the loss of one infantry. Capture a nice railroad team of 3 workers to boot.

Use frigate to peek at Thebes. 2 Sam, 2 rifle, 1 art. 1 german cav and 2 cannon outside!!! I’m amazed biz penetrated so far so quick - this is good. We bombard the city for good luck.

Got a few gold in tribute from Mao.

Turn 5 1796AD

DoW Mao.

Turn 6 1798AD

Biz has a destroyer but no surprise there. Mao’s SoD is still in Beijing

Turfan whipped out of starvation the overflow will go towards a destroyer via ironclad pre-build.

Turn 7 1800AD

Mao sails his 2 loaded galleons and 2 frigates. We have 1 turn before they reach Turfan or Kyoto so we do not attack yet with our 3 frigates.

Mao also sends an unescorted galleon with a settler and 2 infantry towards Old Sarai ruins and is sunk by our frigate.

Macau defended by fortified CG1 & CG2 infantry. We raze & pillage it from the face of the earth for the loss of just 1 suicide artillery (luckily a suicide cavalry withdrew). City attack infantry are real cool. We should preserve them for good odds attacks. I find a CA1 axe that gets woken as a future upgrade. Send 1 ship to the arctic while 2 cross panama

Mao leaves approx 7 infantry, 2 artillery and his caravel in Beijing but that is now insufficient to stop our land invasion and we cross the border in force towards Nanjing.

A pillaging force heads towards Xian. This will be expanded to an attack force by sea once we have transports.

Hangshou has 2 infantry – can can raze it much later.

Biz Destoyer enters Egyptian territoy

Hatty sends out an escorted settler right in front of our army. The escort is one cavalry and one rifle. Defending a river line does not save them.

Turn 8 - 1802AD

Mao’s fleet is headed towards Turfan. We attack and lose 2 frigates to 1. Never mind Turfan produces a transport next turn.

Biz bombards giza for us with his destroyer and frigate then kindly heads off towards Heliopolis. 3 frigates and a galleon of ours join his fleet.

Our cannon and frigates finish the job. Hatty’s SAM are no match for our infantry and we capture the city with 2 losses (We can raze Dortmund instead). MG moves in to defend against any possible counterattack.

We learn combustion. Start biology at 0% but can be changed as will only get 11 beakers from Kyoto’s specialists and we want these as we are trying for GPs.

Turn 9 – 1804AD
Mao unloads outside Turfan and we destroy the 6 units with our surplus units from Macao. With transports we destroy Mao’s fleet to boot. It’s a shame we didn’t learn combustion one turn earlier or the land battle would not have happened.

Biz now has destroyer in the inner sea and will soon have 2 but by the time we DoW on him we will be able to upgrade/rush as many as we need.

Our SoD arrives at Nanjing but there are 5 infantry and a settler there. Hopefully one of the infantry will escort the settelr away.

Start upgrading key units +515 gold per turn + pillage money.
Start bombarding Xian & Byblos.

Had a power outage and need to reload the autosave.

After we are finished pillging, there’s not much left in KK Egyptian holdings for Biz to enjoy.

Load up 2 galleons at Giza and head for Heliopolis to land on the hill to the NW while assault units march there.

Turn 10 – 1806AD
Hatty gets desparate and attacks our bombard stack at Byblos with 2 artillery but our jungle based infantry win. The weakened artillery finishes the bombardment as we prepare to land fresh units by sea across the river.

Mao also get’s desparate and sends his galleons towards Surf n Turf to be eliminated by a transport and an ironclad. 2 infantry leave Nanjing with his settler that can be dealt with later but we sacrifice a cavalry to pillage a road in front of them.

Summary

With combustion in we have destroyed Mao's navy and spare units and are close to capturing Niani and razing Xian as planned. I'm not sure if we have quite enough to take and hold Niani it depends how sucessful the suicide artillery there is.

We have 2 artillery in Samarquand and a transport will complete next turn so they can be ship chained to Xian as per the plan to join the units there. A cannon and an infantry there are on auto-move across the river. Xian will be razed soon and the navy is in place to follow the coast attack plan we agreed earlier. He has a city on our continent and one on an island but these can be left for a later war once we have started on Biz (otherwise Biz will just settle there).

We are a bit short of infantry in China but there are some rifles that could be upgraded or we can start pop rushing as the railroad through panama is complete.

We found Biz had about 2x the cavalry we initially scouted in the screenies. When Biz asked us to DoW on Hatty, I reckoned that although we could probably kill them I’m decided we would be better off as allies for now as it’s better in reverse. I could not consult as that would have meant refusing Biz and I didn't want to take the diplo hit at that point.

In the end I'm happy as supporting his war with Hatty has worn down his spare units, weakened Hatty and screened our units entering Egypt. We took very few losses in the south while fighting fiercely against Mao and are now in a stronger position.

Hatty is broken and Byblos and Helipolis will be razed in 2 turns. Biz has spent his megastacks helping us and his navy has been quite handy too.
Hatty has a transport in Memphis so be careful but hopefully Biz's destroyer will handle it.


Biz only has 2 inf at Kumbi Saleh we’ll be able to attack him once we have the Kremlin in our hands maybe before!

Thebes is worth keeping for the Kremlin - we must beat Biz to it using our transports it will make it cheap to upgrade our frigates and ironclads to destroyers and our ancient garrison units to infantry for the final push into Germany from all sides.


Domestically, since KK was wiped out WW has been no problem.

We still have not revolted - not sure if there's any need we have loads of promos now and just need suicide stuff we can pop rush if we have to? Science is turned off.

I set things up to trying to have 3 GPs ready soon in case things get nasty vs Biz so we can use a GA as insurance. This may be overkill.

Kyoto is currently MM’d to pop a great person in 3 turns after which it should lose it's scientists and artists and employ some priests.

Madrid will be just behind Kyoto and will pop its great person a few turns after. The next player should remove the specialists that are the type just popped at Kyoto to maximise the chance of a different great person.

Then if we have 2 different great people Madrid can try for a third but should not employ the specialists of the 2 great people in store.


We have some 3 worker teams able to build a railroad in a single turn on road. These should carry on building the strategic routes and/or railroad all lumbermills and mines.

Our % land is still <50% so we are not in any danger of a domination victory @ 62%. So here is a list of cities to keep (we need some bases to stop the AI resettling anyway and these give us wonder benefits)

Thebes - Kremlin
Nanjing - Versailles & silk
Shanghai - Notre Dame & fur (on a hill so we don't want to retake it later)

The save

 

[Doom Train]

Great turnset Perugia. So we will have to defeat Biz in last battle to win the game.

As for Kremlin> Maybe next player should direct (by talking to him) Biz s attention toward other cities so we can have more time to capture it.

I ll look at the save tommorow to make more comments.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Excellent TS Perugia!! I think you did the right thing with Biz and Hatty. It sounds like she's pretty much finished, and you seem to have absorbed Mao's excess units, so we should roll over him next TS. I think we can afford to whip together whatever we need for the army to complete Mao's destruction.. speed is of the essence.

As for Biz, well hopefully he'll be stretched out into Egypt so we can stab him in the back and knock out his main production cities and oil. Once we destroy his destroyers and whatever infantry he has managed to make in the next 10 turns or so, it shouldn't be all over.

Of course, I say all this without checking the save

 

[Perugia]

Sweetacshon you are spot on despite not seeing the save.

The ring continent is where we can whip together what we need to destroy Mao and we have railroads to get them to the front quickly and transports to get them behind Mao's culture. Quite a few citizens are working farms so we won't actually lose much production initially.

We also have the money for about 2 upgrades per turn which gives us some extra infantry/artillery/transports at key locations. Clearly upgading each returning galleon in the ship chain is a priority to increase our chain capacity from 3 to 4. Once we have the Kremlin we will be able to upgrade 4 units per turn. Where we have spare units we can pillage cottages for more gold - MGs are good for this as they can't attack so it's good to approach the AI cities from a town to allow this.

Likewise we should whip in new Japan so that there are always 3 units sitting in Toledo (4 once we have transports in the chain) and enough to service the Santiago - Huamanga ferry. There's no point in whipping more than this as the transport is the limit.

@Merum - I think we have a continuous railroad from the Chinese border to the German border - please check. But it does not reach Huamanga or Samarqand. It's probably a good idea to deploy 3 workers extending the line to Huamanga. Another team can extend the railheads to Samarqand and into China. I think we should railroad right up to Beijing and not raze the city to make it easy to ferry our victorious troops from China across to Thebes or direct into Germany.

I've also been working on a railroad in former Egypt crossing the widest part of the continent so we can use Biz's roads up to Essen. It links to the railroad on the south coast but there are some gaps.

In new Japan the railroads are nearly done and we are getting near to linking Barcelona but there are gaps in the line. It's probably not worth linking Madrid and Seville.

 

[BLubmuz]

Good TS, Perugia (i admit i didn't see the save), but reading your notes seems we are in good shape.

I hope Merum can play this weekend, i'm impatient to fight.

edit, after Merum 469

OK Merum, let's swap
I got the save, i will analyze it, then i'll post some note, though there's not much to discuss.
I think all the lines are drawn.

 

[Merum]

Blubmuz, if you want to go ahead of me, feel free. I have a customer in town for the next couple of days, and I'm a bit busy. I don't mind sliding down the order again.

 

[Sweetacshon]

So it seems to be a bit quiet... is everyone still around? I haven't seen Brian post here for a while. I just had a quick look at the maint thread, and they are talking about deadlines and unfinished teams.. so we should probably get a move on. Merum, if Blubmuz plays today or tomorrow, do you think you can fit a TS in the next couple of days after that (just so we know where we are at)?

 

[Merum]

Yes, my customer is leaving tomorrow, so I should be in a stable enough situation to (finally!) play my turnset. I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet, but moving 12,000 miles around the world and starting a new job at the same time will do that to you, I guess. I've been following the thread daily, though.

 

[Perugia]

OK Merum, let's swap
I got the save, i will analyze it, then i'll post some note, though there's not much to discuss. I think all the lines are drawn.

Indeed.

The last turn order was way back on post#408 so I've brought it up to date here.

Blubmuz (up) by 28/10
Merum (on deck) by 2/11
Doom Train by 7/11
BrianS by 12/11
Sweetacshon by 17/11
Perugia (resting) by 22/11

We should finish within this set of turns so should make the end of November deadline that AlanH suggested.

At this crucial time where we need to MM whipping/drafting and ship chaining let alone the attacking, I suggest increasing the timing to 24/24/72 (got-it/plan/play).

I've put in some deadline dates above to indicate this but you'll see that even taking 5 days per turn we will still have a week to spare if it get's round to me again (which I doubt).

 

[BLubmuz]

OK, i'll play tomorrow, today (Oct. 24th) was my wife's birthday.

Agreed, Perugia, i'll take care, and if i have some doubt i'll post it.

Save seen, a list of cities to keep:
China:
Nanjing, Shangai, Beijing
Egypt:
Thebes, Memphis, Heliopolis

I think we'll go about 55% of land (the save is some 48%) with those cities, but the probability of resettling by Germany is very low.
Of course we can raze the most of German cities, to avoid problems.
If we got a GMerchant in Kyoto we can use him for a trade route with Germany, our capital is very far, so it's a lot of money, think some 2000 or more gold.
I'll wait comments.

@Sweetacshon
I think now we cannot foresee how long the china and egypt wars last, the only thing i can say is: ASAP, and with a good positioning of troops (not perfect, but good).

 

[BrianS]

Sorry guys for not contributing much lately. I've been on the road for 4 of the last 5 weeks, and the last three in particular have been tough. I have been checking in, but didn't have much to add as I think our plan is pretty good and fixed at this point. I'm back home on Friday with no immediate travel plans after that, so am raring to get back in the game.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Just to clarify, I wasn't having a go at anyone, only checking where everyone was... obviously we all have RL duties (except perhaps me ).

As stated, the previous plans for Mao still apply, and Hatty is cactus, so it just remains to plot Bizs demise. Issues to think about:
-how do we hamstring him most effectively, ie takeout navy and resources etc
-what is the battle route: this was well planned already, but does our new egyptian holdings change anything?
-the timing for the all important first assault.

 

[Perugia]

I think we should attack Biz early ie as soon as we have

1) Enough units in China to capture/raze Mao's core
2) Hatty is eliminated and our units there are healed and repositioned to attack Biz'z adjacent holdings
3) We have enough units to defend Niani & Timbuktu and probe the German border
4) We have a stong navy in the inner sea but maybe not the right ships in the right places or loaded transports to land our bombard stacks behind Biz's lines at Kumbi Saleh/Frankfurt/Berlin/Cologne.
5) We have enough navy to protect the Giza-Toledo ship chain and handle Biz navy off Memphis/Helipolis/Giza but maybe not enough navy or not positioned or not with the loaded transports ready to attack Munich/Hamburg/Gao.

The next move would be to strenthen the inner sea navy and the southern one and load up transports so we can revert to our original plan of landing units by sea near the German core cities.

The conquest of Egypt first will mean we can use slow overland routes to take Essen & Phonicien rather than taking these after Cologne. This would happen at the same time as the original initial attack on Dortmund (which we can raze as we have Giza as a port). This will lead to overland attacks on Dusseldorf & Teohuican.

The other change is that we can attack the cities Kumbi Saleh/Frankfurt/Berlin/Cologne and Munich/Hamburg/Gao from either direction or maybe even both directions With the ability to whip our ring continent cities into the dust at this stage we should have masses of units for this operation.

Whipping of the new-japan continent should start now and continue each turn to keep the ship chain full.

 

[BLubmuz]

list of cities to keep:
China:
Nanjing, Shangai, Beijing
Egypt:
Thebes, Memphis, Heliopolis

IT - 1806
whipped some unit in New Japan (i decided to never sacrifice more than 2 citizens)
eliminated the 2inf.+settler stack loosing 1 cannon

t01 - 1808
detroyed a frigate with a damaged ironclad near S&T
conquered Nanjing, loosing only 1 cannon
lost an infantry to the infantry guarding iron, then killed
moved the transport from S&T to Kyoto, if we got a merchant we can use him for a trade route with Germany
razed Byblos with no losses

t02 - 1810
IBT a chinese arty suicided at Nanjing
Heliopolis conquered loosing 1 arty
razed Xian, loosing 2 cannons + 1 infantry
troops ready to disembark to raze Hangzou (new japan)

t03 - 1811
IBT - Hatty made peace with Biz
a GM is born in Kyoto !!!
1 SoD for Heliopolis + 1 for Hangzou landed
keep damaged units fron Xian to heal in transports (1 medic in there) outside Shanghai, defended by 3 inf.

t04 - 1812
Our GM gave us 2850g for his Trade Mission to Berlin!
Hangzou razed, lost 1 arty
Heliopolis captured, 2 arties lost

t05 - 1813
IBT - an artillery defeated an inf. in Menphis, then killed together to a cavalry
landed 3 full transports in the forest N of Beijing + 2 in the forest E of Thebes

t06 - 1814
IBT - 2 arties defeated from our Beijing SoD, 3rd withdrawn
Thebes conquered, 1 arty lost, Egypt is no more

t07 - 1815
Shanghai is ours, at the cost of 1 arty + 1 inf.
Tianjin (island) razed, 1 arty lost
siege of Beijing completed
Essen didn't yet expanded its borders, pity we got only damaged units in range, or we can DoW now

t08 - 1816
IBT - Shanghai was retaken by China, i left only 1 defender, but kept troops nearby
Shanghai belongs again to Japan, at the cost of a damaged cannon + another damaged arty
Beijing is ours, cost: 1 artillery, 6 withdrawn Mao to 2 cities
Land 51.03% Pop 68.86%

t09 - 1817
Ghuangzou is under siege, but we have to wait our arties to heal
Beijing and Shanghai are well defended, and Mao has a total of 5 inf + 1 SAM
perhaps we can now DoW Biz, but i prefer to discuss this, then i pass to Merum
We got another GM, we have to decide how use him (he's near Osaka now)

It was a long and hard (but maybe lucky TS) i needed 3 sessions.
Hoping this is my last TS in SGotM2 (otherwise we got some problem) I wish to thank all the team, hoping for a SGotM3 together again.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/Fifth_Element_SG002_AD1817_01.Civ4SavedGame

Of course, i'll watch our thread and post my comments until the end.
Good luck to all, and not only for this game.

 

[Doom Train]

Great turnset blubmuz...

It seems you left excellent stacks at east and west of bismark. We can easily kill by attacking from both sides. Since we will not keep any cities of Germany, it should be a swift death for Bismark.

You could have play some extra turns to finish China too.

So who s up?

 

[Sweetacshon]

Frome before Blubmuz turn:

Blubmuz (up) by 28/10
Merum (on deck) by 2/11
Doom Train by 7/11
BrianS by 12/11
Sweetacshon by 17/11
Perugia (resting) by 22/11

I haven't checked the save yet, but it sounds as tho you did really well, Blubmuz It seems Biz is ripe for the old "classic pincers" ploy

 

[Perugia]

Merum

Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to achieve a conquest victory in the next 10 turns.