SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element

[Perugia]

I'm persuaded by Perugia's analysis and agree that we should go for the blue circle.

Ok so the consensus is to go for the blue circle. BLumbuz suggests the first build be a worker which is fine by me. This way as the city grows each new citizen has an improved tile to work .

I would have thought we then need to build at least 2 military units to deal with any barbs that show up and to avoid early AI DoW. Then we can start thinking about more military or buildings. This city is clearly a key science city to get us to machinery and civil service and should pop our initial great people so needs granary>library>courthouse>monasteries>forge (+1 happy from gems).

We need to be careful about barbs and will need some defensive and eventually offensive propmotions so a cheap barracks will be needed at some stage as we don't want to lose Osaka and we will use it for Samurai eventually. If barbs are not a problem we don't need the barracks until later. Hopefully Issabel is close and will help quell the barbs for us.

We should try to get early promotions from animals using the forests to our benefit.

Tech. Of course as well as CoL we need Metal casting on the tech list so we can build the forge (+1 happy gems and +25% hammers).

We can then research IW + Machinery by which time we should have the GP to rush CS. If we don't have iron we will need to use Axes to get some .

Rice. The tile 1N of the sheep should be reserved for a farm so when we get CS irrigation will be provided to the rice (I think this will work). Otherwise irrigation will need to be planned from the otehr river with a few chops.

Workers, when moving 2 tiles look out for partial build opportunities.

Finally, try not to pay any unit support or supply costs ie build only enough units that our pop can support and place no more than 5 units outside our cultural boundary at any one time unless we are in a major war.

This will be my last post for some time. Good luck everyone .

 

[Merum]

Chiming in here, I'm not so sure about the blue circle. I see two city sites here, one being our first choice, 1N of the sheep, coastal. The other site could include the two oases and the other gems. It's got floodplains, by the looks of it, and who knows what's on the other side of the river. I'd place that city 1SE of the south gems.

If we do decide to move the palace here, then this would be an extremely productive site with little or no distance maintenance.

If I were playing this game solo, I would break those great resources into two very, very good cities, a fine basis for an empire. 1N of the sheep for commerce/production, and the oasis city for a GP farm with its flood plains. The non-resource tiles can then be used for cottages.

We won't be working the double gem for quite some time anyway, as we'll be focused on growing the city.

Also, moving across the river pushes us toward Izzy, if she's over there. Always good to push as far toward the enemy as possible, denying them the space. It's not worth breaking cities for, but we're not doing that here.

Bottom line for me, is why settle for one great city when you can have two?

This looks like a powerhouse start here, and if we place our cities very well, we could end up with a strong core of 4 or more simply awesome cities. That would put us in a fantastic position for an early conquest.

Regarding barracks as a starting build, I also do this often until a city grows to size 2. If I start with pottery, then it's a granary instead, depending on the city site. You end up getting the worker in about the same number of turns, and you have a good start on the barracks, which you'll need anyway. The barracks can sit in the queue until we're ready to resume it.

 

[BLubmuz]

After your answers, with lot of doubts, i decided to follow your path, so:

1 - Start research mining, as planned, move warrior on hill E, as in the ss I posted, settler NW-E
2 - warrior hill SE (more gems and gold, oasis) decided to delay Osaka, settler S-SE
between turns meet Isabella of Spain, a scout coming from north (has to be very close)
3 - warrior S, second oasis - break to ask - after your answers, i'll go NE with settler
4 - Osaka founded in 3910BC in the "blue circle" -8 maintenance!!! warrior in ph see gh SE
5 - warrior obtains a map ... damn
6 - warrior NE
7 - warrior NE
8 - kyoto expanded borders reveal, well take a look - warrior E
9 - warrior E
10 - warrior N
11 - warrior N
12 - warrior NW
13 - warrior NE - STONE!!!
14 - warrior W
15 - warrior W

this is the file i submitted: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/Fifth_Element_SG002_BC3580_01.Civ4SavedGame
still not convinced of the choice, but we're a team so the majority is right.

As posted before, i'll be in vacation 13 to 19, so good luck everyone.

PS : sorry Merum, your plan was closer to mine, but you did not noticed gold (my mistake, i should activate "show resources").

 

[Merum]

Sadly, the presence of the unnoticed gold merely reinforces my original thoughts. That would have made two awesome cities.

On the upside, we would have had some peaks in the 1N city (I hate that they're useless in CIV4, should be at least able to mine them) which would have inhibited growth a bit.

 

[Doom Train]

Looks like i am next. Got the save loaded it with no problems. Probably i ll start my turns tommorow.

 

[Merum]

Refreshing the turn order, since it's now almost 3 pages back:

Doom Train (up)
Merum (on deck)
BrianS
Sweetacshon
Perugia (skip 13 - 27 August)
BLubmuz (resting)

 

[BLubmuz]

Hey guys, I don't wanna be arrogant, but, please, check my spoilers for GotM9, (the second one in the first spoiler thread) and the one in the 2nd spoiler thread.

Moderator Action: Paragraph deleted. Please note that GOTM 9 is still in progress. Some of your team may not be eligible to read your spoilers yet, and in any case you should not discuss it outside of the spoiler threads.

In the meatime i've read FE thread for SGotM1 (here and there, of course) and ... not bad, and a good final result, congrats guys.

I hope that to be close to Spain helps with barbs.

Good luck Doom Train, you'll need it.

 

[BLubmuz]

sorry Alan, simply i do not think my results would be spoiling
it will not happens again.

 

[Doom Train]

Played 4 turns mining completed i staring hunting if you accept.

Turn 1: Moved warrior to NE
Turn 2: Moved warrior to hill N that revealed a lion and sugar.
Turn 3: Lion doesnt intrested in our warrior(moved south) i am not gonna fight him because we cannot risk our only warrior.
Turn 4 : Mining researched...

 

[BLubmuz]

Doom Train,
Hunting is perfect since we need archers ASAP.
And, please, bring that warrior in Osaka.

It comes in my mind only now, but I suppose Spain could be at East, the 2nd scout could NOT be where I saw him (3S Gold hill, roughly) if coming from north.
I gotta learn to take detailed notes, I forget this before

I suppose that you noticed the land north of Kyoto.
ASA we'll has BW (slavery) we'll have to whip a galley/settler /archer to colonize that land (let's hope not be beat to it).
Not only for resources, but because a city there can share resouces with Kyoto, and, if the map is inner sea as I suppose, consequentially with Osaka and other cities in SE.

Again, good luck

 

[Doom Train]

Turn set finished i played 15 turns. I renamed our Warrior to Date Masamune. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_samurai

Turn 1: Moved warrior to NE
Turn 2: Moved warrior to hill N that revealed a lion and sugar.
Turn 3: Lion doesnt intrested in our warrior(moved south) i am not gonna fight him because we cannot risk our only warrior.
Turn 4 : Mining researched. Started Hunting its 15 turns away. Also moved Date to jungle/hill.
Turn 5: Lion is in critical position. I think Date can take him jungle/hill so i fortified him.
Turn 6: Date killed Lion (Just 0.1 damage take taken). Another lion spotted NW of Osaka. Date will scout east with defensive help of forests.
Turn 7: Nothing
Turn 8: Nothing
Turn 9: Work boat completed in Kyoto(i grabbed fish with it) another work boat started.
Turn 10: Nothing
Turn 11: Nothing found in east i don t want to get out of forest to scout further he is danger even in forest so Date is heading back to Osaka.
Turn 12: Worker completed in Osaka. I started mine on Gems N of Osaka. Next warrior...
Turn 13: Nothing
Turn 14: Nothing
Turn 15: Nothing

Science at %50 39g(+1) Hunting 3 turns away.



Merum (up)
BrianS (on deck)
Sweetacshon
Perugia (skip 13 - 27 August)
BLubmuz (in vacation 13 - 19 August)
Doom Train (resting)

 

[Merum]

Got it. Probably won't even have time to look til tomorrow.

 

[Doom Train]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181982
According to Maintanence thread we can use this exploit to build Wonders...

 

[Sweetacshon]

We were always going to be whipping regardless, but I hadn't thought about wonders in the capital... could be good.

Good TS, Doom.. we really have to avoid losing our defenders

Speaking of TSs, I have exams until next thurs (24th), so I should probably be skipped until then. I just can't guarantee I'll have time, but I'll check the thread periodically. GL

 

[BrianS]

@Merum - Are you able to play? Just a reminder that it's been 48 hours since you're got it.

 

[Merum]

IT: Turn science to 60%(-1gpt), Hunting now in 2 rather than 3.
Take Date Masamune off auto-move orders and move him W into the forest, looking for lions.

Turn 2: Hunting comes in, switch to Animal Husbandry. Osaka is growing too slowly, we need the sheep.

Turn 3: The mine is finished, and I bump science to 70%(0). AH now in 12 turns.


Turn 4:
Our Warrior defeats a lion in the northern forest, earning a promotion at the cost of 0.3 health.
Worker moves to the south gems.

Turn 5-8: zzzzz

Turn 9: Warrior in Osaka. start another one. This warrior goes S to fogbusting duties at the border.

Turn 12: Science to 80%(-2), AH in 3. Worker moves to sheep to road then pasture.

Turn 14: Buddhism is founded in a distant land. I'm surprised Izzy didn't get it.

Turn 15: AH comes in, I switch to BW. This can be changed, but I'll take BW over archery any day.
Forest-walking warrior reveals wheat along the river to the SW of Osaka.

Here's the save.

Sorry it took so long, I've been having some computer issues.

Osaka will grow next turn. He should go on the sheep in anticipation of the farm.
There's a Lion near the warriors, maybe we can get another promo for our south fogbuster.
That wheat-sheep city on the river looks like a nice site.
Hopefully, there will be copper.
I've assigned the worker to build the pasture on the sheep.
Kyoto is unhealthy at 4, but still growing. Make sure to put the workboat on the crab, not fish.

Turn log

Spoiler :

Turn 30, 3100 BC: You have discovered Hunting!

Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Fifth Element's Date Masamune (Warrior) (3.60)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Combat Odds: 2.9%
Turn 31, 3070 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Fifth Element's Date Masamune (Warrior) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Fifth Element's Date Masamune (Warrior) has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 40, 2800 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 41, 2770 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!

I might have miscounted turns and played an extra one. oops.

 

[BrianS]

I've got the save now. Will look it over tonight and play tomorrow.

Initial thought is that we are getting close to the time the warrior/archer barbs appear. These guys are mean on raging barbs and caused me lots of grief in my practice games. I intend to build at least a couple more military units next so that we can survive that onslaught.

The main question is whether to stick with BW started by Merum or switch to archery. I think it's unlikely we'll get lucky enough to see copper in Osaka's fat cross (which is still a small cross and likely to stay that way for awhile since we have no religion and no culture building). Even if copper is somewhat close by, we have a moderately long haul before seeing axes (need to build settler and more warriors to protect it, then go settle and mine copper). My warriors were eaten up by barb archers in practice games, and we'll face a long period of archers before we can make axes. Plus, once we research BW, we'll start seeing axes and we'll have no good defense if copper is not nearby.

For these reasons, I'm inclined to switch to archery. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Merum]

Things to keep in mind:

Osaka is producing no culture. We can't use the resources if they're not in the fat cross.
Ideally we should have a settler in mind for when(if) we see copper.We don't want Izzy to get it.
Kyoto probably should be on "Avoid Growth" at 5 until we can get more health resources to it. Either that, or we whip the crap out of it.

There are currently no beakers in Bronze Working with the possible exception of overflow, so it can change without loss. However, I hate researching Archery, a dead end tech that doesn't give much in return. However, with raging barbs I understand it may be a necessity.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Not getting archery seems like a risk. We can't bank on copper being near Osaka. If it's 15 odd turns to BW, (assuming we have a settler ready) and another 8 or so to mine, and then 10 to build an axe (sorry about the numbers) 30-35 turns with no real defence. What about spears or chariots, tho?

 

[Merum]

Oh, I agree that it's a risk to bypass archery. There's a risk of not getting copper, and as BrianS points out, once we get bronze working, we'll get barb axes, but I'm a risk-taking sort of guy (that can tend to backfire on me from time to time).

I have no issue with changing the research path to Archery. I just can't bring myself to physically do it, which is why I chose BW. If I were playing this alone, I would continue on to BW (Which is due in 11 at current research levels) and try to compensate for the barb defense issues with fogbusting and additional forces.

We can probably have archery in another 6-7 turns past BW. Why couldn't we start building archers then? We'd be able to whip, and we'd also have the location of copper (if there is any) known to us, so that we can prepare to settle it. We can probably also shave 1-2 turns off what we have now in research by going to 100% and city growth at Osaka will give us more gold, thus more beakers.