SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element

BLubmuz · Aug 21, 2006

Thanks all :beer:

,
only some thoughts:
I've noticed barbs tend to skip fogbusters and beeline for city or improvements, then i'll keep the warriors on forests (+50% defense) and archer on hills (same, 25 for hill +25 for archer ability) and, with the exception of Date, fortified in a forest for centuries, to avoid problems from West, i'll keep them no more than a tile outside the borders.

About Palace: it's mandatory to build, but it NEEDS at least 4 cities to be, so my build queue for Osaka would be:
Archer (already in progress), barracks, Axe, library, Axe, settler, Axe, then Palace.

Why not IW?

@Merum (post after this one):
sold! let's go for Alpha (last but not least, we can produce research in Kyoto), then IW or the fast Agri or Myst

@Doom Train:
please, bear in mind the above, be care, we need all our units, with axes we'll can be more aggressive against barbs (and not only)

And, with missis Merit Ptah, academy or else??? :smoke:

Merum · Aug 21, 2006

Blubmuz,

My thinking behind going for alpha first is this:

1. Allows us to trade tech with others, and usually the AI doesn't go for it as quickly as humans do, so it's our chance for a monopoly tech.
2. Allows us to continue down the path to code of laws, which will allow us to build courthouses. This will be a huge help to us in cutting our maintenance costs.

Iron working is nice (in fact I'd slot it after alphabet, maybe), but I think we need to be able to trade while we can. Soon enough everybody will be angry with us, and trading will be more difficult.

BrianS · Aug 22, 2006

Agree that alpha is good for leading us to COL, but I wouldn't count on any tech trading based on what we see today. So far, we have met only Izzie, and I believe she will not trade with us unless she has met at least one other civ.

Merum · Aug 22, 2006

BrianS said:
Agree that alpha is good for leading us to COL, but I wouldn't count on any tech trading based on what we see today. So far, we have met only Izzie, and I believe she will not trade with us unless she has met at least one other civ.

Well, fair enough, but she might know another civ. This is a fractal map, so who knows what's next to her.

BLubmuz · Aug 22, 2006

IMHO, Alpha gets another point:
- I agree (see one of my previous posts) that Izzy will not trade techs, but at least we'll can see what she knows,
- after we'll have conquered :evil:

, say, 3 of her cities we'll can sue for peace for some tech

perhaps it's not a priority, but we need it soon or later

Some long term reflection

CoL is a long research, after Alpha better go for IW (to see where iron is) >Mysticism>Agri, then CoL
we can't hope to found Confucianism, just use it for courthouses, but:
if we build the Palace in Osaka, we'll need a ch in Kyoto, and i'll wish to settle both the stone and the cows islands mainly for the sea resources, where a ch is very difficult to build, and who knows what we'll find north and west of Kyoto?

If you agree on the above, better not move the palace, build instead a nice stack of axes/swords, build ch in Osaka and neighbors cities, and a FP in Osaka, that is a powerhouse, and former Spain cities will be our core :evil:

.

Also, don't forget that:
- Kyoto is GS-farm (a pity not be able to build GL in there),
- ASA we'll know Literature, we'll can build HE, probably in Tokyo, since we have a level 5 unit.

Doom Train · Aug 22, 2006

I ve finished my turnset. Barbies are tough but i managed to hook up copper without losing any unit or improvement.

Here is a report:

Turn 1: Changed research to Alphabet. Fortified Jigoro.

Turn 2: Jigoro killed barb archer no injuries. Tokyo training archer now.

Turn 3: Jigoro and Date killed barb archers. Toyota started copper mine. Work boat grabbed fish. I switched shift for Jigoro and Kano because jigoro is injured badly.

Turn 4: Archer completed in Osaka(Jin). There is barbie warrior N of Osaka i attacked him with Jin and killed it with no injuries. Moved science slider to %40.

Turn 5: Kano defeated barb archer but he is badly injured.

Turn 6: Jigoro healed so i switched again with Kano.

Turn 7: Nothing but new barbies keep comin

Turn 8: Ippon succesfully defended Tokyo from archer.

Turn 9: Nothing

Turn 10: Copper mine completed road started. Zen attacked barb warrior killed it.

Turn 11: Nothing

Turn 12: Date killed one warrior. Other warrior will likely to attack him next turn so i gave him woodsman promotion.

Turn 13: Date and Jigoro won their battles but they are injured.

Turn 14: Barracks completed in Osaka started library. Archer(Kazuya) competed in Tokyo started barracks. Road to copper competed we have it in Tokyo right now. Worker starting to connect copper to OSAKA.,

Turn 15: I think barbies little furious with us 4 of them appeared in this turn so i pulled back kazuya on copper.

Next player should bring back Date because there are 2 barbies after him.

BLubmuz · Aug 22, 2006

Good turnset, DT, you reached our goals :goodjob:

I downladed the official save, to see how KYOTO goes, since you never mentioned it in your post:
unfortunately you forget to whip the library there.

I guess we'll have a big overflow by the whip, what could we build?

@BrianS your post 108:
good thought, we'll can use the overflow for a settler, after that use this technique: when settler is almost completed, start a worker, before it is completed an archer, if we'll yet have sailing a wb, so, ASA we'll know sailing we'll can start a galley, so we'll don't loose production, and we'll save unit maintenance costs (needs some micromanagement, but it's worth)

IMHO next player, in his very first turn has to:
- recall Date (as you said)
- put the archer on the hill E of Date (how he is now)
- whip that ... library in Kyoto, start the 2 scientists and put the city in stagnant grow

ASA we'll have copper in Osaka, switch library to Axe and take the worker on the hill N Tokyo to chop, to hurry barracks or Axe (or both, i don't want compute everything), easily soon we'll see barb axes :eek:

.

BrianS · Aug 22, 2006

Good turnset Doom. Also, good suggestions Blubmuz. Can we put overflow of hammers in Kyoto into Research? Another thought, once we have sailing, we are going to want a settler/archer/worker in Kyoto to settle the cow island. So we might want to start teeing those up.

Merum, you're up.

Merum (UP)
BrianS
Sweetacshon (skip through 23 August)
Perugia (skip 13 - 27 August)
BLubmuz
Doom Train (resting)

Merum · Aug 23, 2006

Got and opened the save. Look and maybe play tomorrow.

Good turns, Doom Train.

Perugia · Aug 23, 2006

Hi folks!

I am back somewhat earlier than I had anticipated due to a car breakdown. The damn thing is firing on only 2-3 cylinders!

The annoying thing is I know it's nothing too serious but the trouble with these new electronic whizz bang cars is to be sure it's fixed right you need a computer and software costing £££££££'s that only a franchised dealer has access too.

In the good old days you could repair ignition problems on the road!

Anyways I will be available to play after ~~Sweetacshon~~ BrianS which will give me some time to catch up with our progress to date.

BLubmuz · Aug 23, 2006

Hi Perugia, welcome back

sorry for your accident, let's hope it doesn't cost too much.

Not much is happened, we just kept the fort, but you'll see by yourself.

Now that you're back, perhaps we'll can hurry a bit, lookin' at the graph it seems we are one of the most backward teams (for game progress, I mean).

Merum · Aug 24, 2006

IT
Whip the library in Kyoto down to 1 turn. 42 hammer overflow will go into a settler.
Send Date home via the scenic route to keep him away from the oncoming warriors

Turn 1
I accidentally select worker instead of settler in Kyoto. Sorry about that, but the strategy will still be valid.
Jin is injured from the IBT fight with the warrior, so I give him Drill 2 to help with the second.
Two scientists in Kyoto shaves research time on alphabet down to 19

Turn 2
3 barb attacks, all beaten back by our archers, I near Osaka, 2 at Tokyo. More barbs coming.

Turn 3
zZzzz

Turn 4
Kill another barb, and 3 more show up. One is an archer. sheesh.

Turn 5
Izzy offers open borders, and I agree. She's Cautious with us.

Turn 6
Barbs attack again, S of Osaka. Warrior holds him off the gems.
Izzy has a 2 archer 1 settler stack headed south. If nothing else, it will decrease the spawning spots for barbs

Turn 7
2 more barb victories at Tokyo, and 1 at Osaka. Miraculously, there are no barbs visible now.
Osaka road finished, >axeman in 9. Worker heads back to Tokyo

Turn 8
Worker chopping N of Tokyo. 3 more barbs show up. *shakes head*
Shuffle some units around to meet the barb threat.

Turn 9
Barbs seem to be beelining for Osaka now. Another barb warrior shows up to join the party.

Turn 10
Barbs everywhere. We need some more forces. Builds are seeming to take forever.

Turn 11
The Barb-a-thon continues.

Turn 12
Izzy founds a city to the W of Osaka
2 more barbs show up. Surprise!

Turn 13
Another barb suicides himself on our copper mine

Turn 14
Our first Axeman is born in Osaka.
We lose the stone culturally to Spain. Tokyo needs some culture bad, recommend we chop a library in there.

I'm stopping here, because I think I lost count.

We need culture, no doubt about it. There's an axe in Osaka, and one due in 4 at Tokyo.

The Save

The Turnlog

Spoiler :

Perugia · Aug 24, 2006

Hi there.

Well done everyone. We have 3 cities in good sites and a 4th to follow. There are lots of forests to chop when we get the barbs under control.

Barbs, barbs, barbs. I can see this is a big problem for us and agree we need more units. The good thing is we can afford a larger military as we have nothing showing on F2. If we can get ahead of the Barbs we can cycle 10XP units back to home and hope to get the others promoted so we have a really well prepared military.

Now we have metal we should reserve Jigoro the warrior's next propmotion for Medic I to speed healing of units in the same tile by 10%. In preparation for this, Date should move into the forest because he has Woodsman promotion and the new Axe can guard the gems.

I have a way of speeding up our research of Alphabet from 4 to 2 turns. Increase science to 80% at -13gpt.

If we move a citizen in Osaka from the forest to the plains river, we can remove one scientist from Kyoto and put the citizen back to work on the crab speeding the settler build from 17 to 11 turns.

Once we have Alphabet I recommend Kyoto removes the remaining scientist, stops work on the Settler and maximises growth and puts 2 turns worth of hammers into an escort unit for the settler. It can then resume the settler or keep on growth so it can rush something.

I assume we are looking to trade or research sailing so we can colonise Cow Island North of Kyoto when the settler pops.

I recommend we play the next 2 turn quick then discuss again once we have Alphabet and know what techs Izzy has.............

BLubmuz · Aug 24, 2006

@Perugia
We don't really need an escort unit for the settler in Kyoto, he can found the city, start a library and provide on its own for a unit (or Kyoyo can send it later). Pity the worker we'll train in Kyoto will be killed after pasturing and roading the cows.

We must bear in mind that the sea can be as dangerous as the solid ground, so after our galley has completed its ferry duties, better keep N or E the "stone island", until we'll decide to settle there, to avoid barb galleys.

Same for Tokyo: we'll avoid to build a wb before a galley, we don't want our wb pillaged by barbs or Spain when we'll start our holy war against :evil:

.

Agree that sailing has to be our next priority, then the (long) path for CoL.
As I already wrote, I doubt Izzy will trade techs :mad:

.

One last thing, about our team: Last post by Sweetsacshon was Aug 19, saying he'll be back on 23, but no news at this moment.

Again @Perugia, your post 115:
Nothing to complain, we only need to save unit's maintenance costs, so let's try to use the technique i proposed in my post 107.
I know that when we play we can be distracted by the events in Osaka region, anyway we'll "just" have to remember to watch Kyoto to use it.

Perugia · Aug 24, 2006

@BLubmuz. I don't really mind what Kyoto builds, I am just saying that it needs to be allowed to grow to it's happy limit and to do that we have to stop working the settler for a short while so we have to put the hammers somewhere. They could go to a workboat or a defender so the new city can get on with a Library which will be needed once it can work the 2 clams.

edit @BLumbuz #114
I agree we should queue up settler, galley & worker units in Kyoto until all have one turns left to save maintenance. We can also include archer and even workboat in the list if we do not know sailing.

When we learn sailing we can switch from archer to galley when archer has 1, 2 or 3 turns left because the galley will first transport the worker and settler and it will take 2-3 turns to return for the archer.

BrianS · Aug 24, 2006

Welcome back Perugia. It looks like I'm up. I'll play a couple turns tonight and post an update after we get alphabet.

I agree that we need a library in Tokyo. Then I think we may want to rush an axe army to take on Izzie. Research will be slow until our economy gets in order either through a palace move or courthouses. In the meantime, I think we should concentrate on taking out Izzie with axes.

Merum · Aug 24, 2006

Brian, please be careful with the build queue in Kyoto. I have a 1-turn worker queued up there, and a settler cooking now.

It's a shame that worker will have to die after only building two improvements. Maybe we can afford to keep him until he can be ferried to the mainland, I don't know. I wish we could merge them into cities like in civ3.

The library is building at Osaka simply because that was what was in the queue after the axe built. Since I was stopping, I didn't change the build.

What has been really frustrating is the slooooow build times we're getting, especially at Tokyo. When it grows in 2 we'll be able to get some hammer production in there, and that will cut our axe build times significantly. If not for this, we would have a much larger army right now and I probably would have jumped Izzy's settler stack with a couple of axes before that city W of Osaka was founded.

I'm currently think that we should chop a library into Tokyo, then build up a nice stack of 6 or 7 axes, and go get us a new city. :mischief:

This will be a good opportunity for one of my favorite activities, which is called "settling by the sword" (axe, in this case). :evil:

Welcome back, Perugia. We tried not to burn the place down.

Sweetacshon · Aug 24, 2006

Hi guys, well played, and yes, I am still around. After my last exam on wed I got drunk and have been hungover most of today, and so not on the ball. I've tried to keep up with progress but have probably missed a few things. Whatever happened to whipping Stonehenge in the capital? Anyway it's barbs, barbs, barbs... so much fun. What's the program now, BrianS then me?

Perugia · Aug 24, 2006

Sweetacshon said:
What's the program now, BrianS then me?

As far as I can see you and I have both been skipped but are now back so the turn order is now:

BrianS (UP)
Sweetacshon (on deck)
Perugia
BLubmuz
Doom Train
Merum (resting)

Brian I look forward to your feedback on our Embassy to Spain after learning Alphabet in 2 turns, it will be interesting to see what techs Izzy has and if any are tradable.

edit@BrianS #108. AFAIK you cannot put overflow into research (or culture or wealth). The overflow is saved and applied to the next build. Saving the overflow like this can be useful

PS I favour the pointy stick approach to tech trading with Izzie that is being discussed. Anyway we will know real soon if everything is redded out, for now.

Merum · Aug 24, 2006

Sweetacshon said:
Whatever happened to whipping Stonehenge in the capital?

We don't have the tech for stonehenge, but we might still be able to do it, if we can research it quickly enough (and grow Kyoto quickly enough). Don't know if it's worth a shot or not.

SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element

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