SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Perugia
Prince
BLumbuz - I like the idea of M1 for one of the spears better than taking along a warrior as it will save supply and the spear needs no other promo to kill chariot. The warrior will still be useful in healing up around Osaka & Tokyo.
OK so we just need to ask for all her money then barter down. Sounds a bit like gold trading in CivIII.
OK so we just need to ask for all her money then barter down. Sounds a bit like gold trading in CivIII.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
10 turns during wartime seems about right. War turns are longer, and everybody wants a chance to do some whacking. 
I usually ask for tech when I threaten. Barring that, It's all their gold, then down until they acquiesce.
I usually ask for tech when I threaten. Barring that, It's all their gold, then down until they acquiesce.
Doom Train
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2002
- Messages
- 204
Okay i ve scouted defences of Barcelona, Cordoba and Madrid. Bad news Madrid is on the hill.
Turn 1: Killed the worker on stone island. Galley will replace him. Converted to christianity. Signed OB with izzy but she don t want to trade techs with us. I am using Zen (Archer near barca) as a scout.
Turn 2: Moved Toyota to start road.
Turn 3: Swordsman completed in Osaka started spearman.
Turn 4: Barbarian warrior spotted near Osaka
Here are the defences of 3 cities.
Barcelona:
Cordoba:
Madrid:
Turn 1: Killed the worker on stone island. Galley will replace him. Converted to christianity. Signed OB with izzy but she don t want to trade techs with us. I am using Zen (Archer near barca) as a scout.
Turn 2: Moved Toyota to start road.
Turn 3: Swordsman completed in Osaka started spearman.
Turn 4: Barbarian warrior spotted near Osaka
Here are the defences of 3 cities.
Barcelona:
Cordoba:
Madrid:
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
well done.
She has copper hmmmmm ...
I guess the stack i suggested is sufficient for Madrid, bring it ASAP near the rice.
What about (during war): move all units stacked north in the isthmus, kill the archer, move the stack on copper, pillage the mine (not the road), keep the
stack until the sword you'll surely use to kill the archer will heal, then move the stack to Madrid???
This way we are almost sure we don't have to face more than 1 or 2 axes and Izzy won't attack the stack.
ASA you'll get Madrid, revolt to Representation
Good luck
She has copper hmmmmm ...
I guess the stack i suggested is sufficient for Madrid, bring it ASAP near the rice.
What about (during war): move all units stacked north in the isthmus, kill the archer, move the stack on copper, pillage the mine (not the road), keep the
stack until the sword you'll surely use to kill the archer will heal, then move the stack to Madrid???
This way we are almost sure we don't have to face more than 1 or 2 axes and Izzy won't attack the stack.
ASA you'll get Madrid, revolt to Representation
Good luck
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Well played, team! A few days away from home, and everything is progressing perfectly. Madrid looks juicy, and the stack Blumbuz mentioned should be fine imo. Izzy has the copper, but no axes (what a goose!) so after we pillage that it'll be smooth sailing. I guess she COULD pop out 1-2 axes in the short time available after the DoW, but cest la vie.
I'll check the save later, but I'm assuming we have a spear/axe/archer for city defence with warriors to promote if needed? Also loving the work in Kyoto and S&T - fatten, then slaughter - repeat
Is that the elusive free missionary south of Cordoba?
I'll check the save later, but I'm assuming we have a spear/axe/archer for city defence with warriors to promote if needed? Also loving the work in Kyoto and S&T - fatten, then slaughter - repeat
Is that the elusive free missionary south of Cordoba?
Hmmm, Madrid is at 60%, on a hill, and archers all have city defense. It's not going to be easy.
I definitely agree with getting to the copper asap and taking it out. Should we also pillage the road on the isthmus to cut off horses/copper from the rest of her empire? I know we'll be getting the copper quickly, but this will cut it off even quicker. We can pillage with 1 axe, and leave another axe to help defend it. The remainder of the stack can continue on to the copper without delay. If Izzy sends out some defenders to attack the axes or our stack, all the better....it will be easier to fight them in the field than in Madrid.
I definitely agree with getting to the copper asap and taking it out. Should we also pillage the road on the isthmus to cut off horses/copper from the rest of her empire? I know we'll be getting the copper quickly, but this will cut it off even quicker. We can pillage with 1 axe, and leave another axe to help defend it. The remainder of the stack can continue on to the copper without delay. If Izzy sends out some defenders to attack the axes or our stack, all the better....it will be easier to fight them in the field than in Madrid.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
@BrianS
Let's go in deep analysis on the attack plan:
- Pillage the copper is mandatory,
- to cut the road to horses we need no less than 5-6 turns, with not much luck, Madrid can fall long before - definitely NO! ... and do we care for 1 or 2 chariots?
- 3 swords attack first, then 3 axes (or viceversa, or alternatively), at least 2 of them should win.
- we got 3 more axes, a spear and a very good archer (drill 3)
- Madrid will have 3 damaged archers (if Izzy builds another one), a chariot and a spearman.
- if we are hapless we'll loose another axe, then will be as steal candies to a child.
ONLY THE BRAVE!!!
@Team
No relation to the above:
In the meantime I took another look at the Graph, and it seems that:
- We are on average-low for game progress,
- we are on average-high for score,
- the orange team (CFR?) has the far best score,
- team Rat Pack is far in advance (past 1600 AD)
- the "dream team" Peanut is a bit behind eheh
just to let you know, for what is worth ...
Let's go in deep analysis on the attack plan:
- Pillage the copper is mandatory,
- to cut the road to horses we need no less than 5-6 turns, with not much luck, Madrid can fall long before - definitely NO! ... and do we care for 1 or 2 chariots?
- 3 swords attack first, then 3 axes (or viceversa, or alternatively), at least 2 of them should win.
- we got 3 more axes, a spear and a very good archer (drill 3)
- Madrid will have 3 damaged archers (if Izzy builds another one), a chariot and a spearman.
- if we are hapless we'll loose another axe, then will be as steal candies to a child.
ONLY THE BRAVE!!!
@Team
No relation to the above:
In the meantime I took another look at the Graph, and it seems that:
- We are on average-low for game progress,
- we are on average-high for score,
- the orange team (CFR?) has the far best score,
- team Rat Pack is far in advance (past 1600 AD)
- the "dream team" Peanut is a bit behind eheh
just to let you know, for what is worth ...
Blubmuz - I'm not suggesting that we go all the way to the horses to cut them off. I'm suggesting we cut the road between Madrid and the rest of the empire. We'll be going up that road to get to the copper. I'd cut it 1 tile north of the cottage above Barcelona. It won't slow us down at all. The 2 axes we leave behind to pillage the road will be able to catch up with the stack before it's ready to attack Madrid.
This assumes that cutting the road will immediately cut off access to horses and copper to the rest of Izzy's empire. If so, then Barcelona, Madrid, Cordoba, Toledo will be cut off from creating axes 5 turns before we can pillage the mine.
This assumes that cutting the road will immediately cut off access to horses and copper to the rest of Izzy's empire. If so, then Barcelona, Madrid, Cordoba, Toledo will be cut off from creating axes 5 turns before we can pillage the mine.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
BLubmuz said:
As I read it, the road cut would be further south, say 1S of the deer. This would effectively cut the other cities off from copper and horses.
**EDIT** oops sorry.. you beat me.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
BrianS said:
Izzy knows SAILING
this means that if we cut the road she don't lose the route (if i correctly remember how civ4 works)
@Brian #192
Seville IS coastal, all her cities are
to cut the roads only slow down our advance further in the war
we must just pillage the copper, to avoid an axe in Madrid
anything else is useless - better - is to our disadvantage
and ... take Barcelona first means find 1 or 2 axes in Madrid. a suicide ... we need all our units there and ASAP to take it for sure
This is what I wasn't sure about. After looking into this a bit more, I think the way it works is that those cities with connected coastal tiles would still have access to the copper. So Seville would not (although I think we'd also have to cut the roads from Seville to Barcelona and Cordoba), but the other cities all form a chain of connected coastal tiles. So this probably wouldn't do much good, unless we severed the link by taking Barcelona first, but that would cause significant delay.
Doom Train
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2002
- Messages
- 204
I ve completed my turnset. Looks like next 2 players will get all the action. I could have played 1-2 extra turns because i lost count in the middle of 12-13.
Report:
Turn 1: Killed the worker on stone island. Galley will replace him. Converted to christianity. Signed OB with izzy but she don t want to trade techs with us. I am using Zen (Archer near barca) as a scout.
Turn 2: Moved Toyota to start road.
Turn 3: Swordsman completed in Osaka started spearman.
Turn 4: Barbarian warrior spotted near Osaka
Turn 5: Our axeman destroyed barb warrior.
Turn 6: Toyota completed road. I am sending him to mine that "half mine" near Osaka.
Turn 7: Spearman completed in Osaka started swordsman. 2 archer left from Madrid and 2 spnanish archers spotted north of Tokyo.
Turn 8: Axeman completed in Tokyo started Swordsman. Whipped library in S&T.
Turn 9: Library completed in S&T started work boat.(Yes i forgot the work boat in Kyoto here so we have extra 1 work boat)
Turn 10:Work boat complete in S&T started market.
Turn 11: Sword completed in Osaka started another sword
Turn 12: Nothing
Turn 13: Nothing
Turn 14: Sword completed in Tokyo. Megastack is ready. Demanded all of her money as tribute. She gave us 110g. War declared on Spain.
Turn 15: Sword completed in Osaka. Megastack continues its march towards Madrid.
Next is Merum! good luck
Merum (up)
BrianS (on deck)
Sweetacshon
Perugia
BLubmuz
Doom Train (resting)
Save
. I could have played 1-2 extra turns because i lost count in the middle of 12-13.Report:
Turn 1: Killed the worker on stone island. Galley will replace him. Converted to christianity. Signed OB with izzy but she don t want to trade techs with us. I am using Zen (Archer near barca) as a scout.
Turn 2: Moved Toyota to start road.
Turn 3: Swordsman completed in Osaka started spearman.
Turn 4: Barbarian warrior spotted near Osaka
Turn 5: Our axeman destroyed barb warrior.
Turn 6: Toyota completed road. I am sending him to mine that "half mine" near Osaka.
Turn 7: Spearman completed in Osaka started swordsman. 2 archer left from Madrid and 2 spnanish archers spotted north of Tokyo.
Turn 8: Axeman completed in Tokyo started Swordsman. Whipped library in S&T.
Turn 9: Library completed in S&T started work boat.(Yes i forgot the work boat in Kyoto here so we have extra 1 work boat)
Turn 10:Work boat complete in S&T started market.
Turn 11: Sword completed in Osaka started another sword
Turn 12: Nothing
Turn 13: Nothing
Turn 14: Sword completed in Tokyo. Megastack is ready. Demanded all of her money as tribute. She gave us 110g
. War declared on Spain.Turn 15: Sword completed in Osaka. Megastack continues its march towards Madrid.
Spoiler :
Next is Merum! good luck
Merum (up)
BrianS (on deck)
Sweetacshon
Perugia
BLubmuz
Doom Train (resting)
Save
Let's make sure we keep a spear with Toyota. We don't want any chariots swooping in and stealing him.
Yes Seville is on the coast, but it doesn't have any coastal tiles that are connected to the other cities. I think that's required to share the resources with Sailing. In other words, there needs to be some cultural overalp.
Yes Seville is on the coast, but it doesn't have any coastal tiles that are connected to the other cities. I think that's required to share the resources with Sailing. In other words, there needs to be some cultural overalp.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Nice TS DT, I'll check the save tomorrow. Time to punish Izzy.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Good TS, Doom Train
it seems you made the stack as i suggested, with +1 axe ... good
good job in the islands, too
Let's keep for some turn the new WB at south, never know ...
no worries for our cities, they seems well defended against Spain and barbs
sorry Brian, i don't like contradict systematically, no need to borders overlap, just to be coastal and know the coast (this is obviously the case) between a city and the other.
The only obstacle for 2 coastal cities can't share resouces is the non complete knowledge of the coast between them
Good luck MERUM
a doubt: perhaps DT has waited too much to declare? i would have done 4-5 turns earlier
... well, anyway it's done ...
Looking at the saved file, I noticed DT correctly avoided to promote units:
i'm not sure if it's more effective COVER (25%) or CR1 (20%)
looking at the % cover seems to be best, but better look in some strategy thread
I'll edit this if I find st.
edit: nothing - if some of you can do best, will be welcome.
I'm preparing a test game with exactly (as far as I can) the same settings of ours, limited of course to Japan and Spain ASA it will be ready, i'll post it here.
Hope this could be good for combat simulations.
I suppose that is not spoiling, since it's NOT the real game, please check and confirm.
the save is View attachment 137122 just the map, very roughly in the southern part.
I hope you're familiar with WB, if not i'll add units with the right promotions tomorrow.
@Perugia, post 198
A unit on a non-pillaged resource denies to work it, but the resource continues to be avaible, if I'm not wrong.
This seems to be a game where the smallest rules are important to win (I mean that if we got a stack of 12 Cavalry this question won't be so important
)
it seems you made the stack as i suggested, with +1 axe ... good
good job in the islands, too
Let's keep for some turn the new WB at south, never know ...
no worries for our cities, they seems well defended against Spain and barbs
sorry Brian, i don't like contradict systematically, no need to borders overlap, just to be coastal and know the coast (this is obviously the case) between a city and the other.
The only obstacle for 2 coastal cities can't share resouces is the non complete knowledge of the coast between them
Good luck MERUM
a doubt: perhaps DT has waited too much to declare? i would have done 4-5 turns earlier
... well, anyway it's done ...
Looking at the saved file, I noticed DT correctly avoided to promote units:
i'm not sure if it's more effective COVER (25%) or CR1 (20%)
looking at the % cover seems to be best, but better look in some strategy thread
I'll edit this if I find st.
edit: nothing - if some of you can do best, will be welcome.
I'm preparing a test game with exactly (as far as I can) the same settings of ours, limited of course to Japan and Spain ASA it will be ready, i'll post it here.
Hope this could be good for combat simulations.
I suppose that is not spoiling, since it's NOT the real game, please check and confirm.
the save is View attachment 137122 just the map, very roughly in the southern part.
I hope you're familiar with WB, if not i'll add units with the right promotions tomorrow.
@Perugia, post 198
A unit on a non-pillaged resource denies to work it, but the resource continues to be avaible, if I'm not wrong.
This seems to be a game where the smallest rules are important to win (I mean that if we got a stack of 12 Cavalry this question won't be so important
)
Perugia
Prince
Nice stuff Doom Train (apart from minor gripe on city management at end of post).
No one has defended 15 turns in war time so let's stick to the rule to play 10 turns each (until peace is declared).
@Merum et al. I have a suggestion on the research front. If we learn Pottery (3 turns & 100%) then when we capture Izzies cities we will capture her granaries intact otherwise they will be demolished.
As there is a Settler in Madrid we might be lucky and find that one of the other units is an escort and departs the city. As she seems to be intent on colonising the whole continent, with luck she might be in the middle of building another settler which she will complete before switching to military.
I agree with BLumbuz that we do not care about the Horses quite simply as chariots are harder for her to build and easier for us to kill on the attack that mere archers.
I think we are overdoing spearmen at the moment. Let's put at least one on hold.
I do not see any need to pillage the copper. After we attack the tile, Izzy will not be able to use the copper because we will leave our damaged cover promoted axe there. The rest of the stack can advance to the grassland to block any units leaving Madrid to recapture the copper while our woodsman promoted axe blocks the forest 1S of Madrid.
Alternatively we can leave the wounded unit on the tile defended by our spear while the rest of the stack moves onto the forest .
When making the attack on Madrid we need to use the swords in the second to fourth combats against undamaged or lightly damaged archers before the spear pops to the top of the defenders to ensure the spear is attacked by axes to use there bonus vs melee. (The first fight is suicide and should be by a 4XP cover promoted axe.)
I agree Toyoda need to be defended. Surely we should also target Seville which is lightly defended, this will give us some more trade routes due to currency. Also I think we are overdoing the spearmen construction at the moment, lets switch at least one to axe/sword. Build another 1-2 swords or axes and we can send a second stack over there (just 2 archers at 20% in the screenie).
City Management
Kyoto should be working Fish instead of Crab for +1 food to speed the day when we will have enough population to rush the market.
Osaka should be working oasis instead of flood plain for +1 gold and the same food.
With only 4 cities to manage we should not be missing this MM stuff.
Good luck Merum.
No one has defended 15 turns in war time so let's stick to the rule to play 10 turns each (until peace is declared).
@Merum et al. I have a suggestion on the research front. If we learn Pottery (3 turns & 100%) then when we capture Izzies cities we will capture her granaries intact otherwise they will be demolished.
As there is a Settler in Madrid we might be lucky and find that one of the other units is an escort and departs the city. As she seems to be intent on colonising the whole continent, with luck she might be in the middle of building another settler which she will complete before switching to military.
I agree with BLumbuz that we do not care about the Horses quite simply as chariots are harder for her to build and easier for us to kill on the attack that mere archers.
I think we are overdoing spearmen at the moment. Let's put at least one on hold.
I do not see any need to pillage the copper. After we attack the tile, Izzy will not be able to use the copper because we will leave our damaged cover promoted axe there. The rest of the stack can advance to the grassland to block any units leaving Madrid to recapture the copper while our woodsman promoted axe blocks the forest 1S of Madrid.
Alternatively we can leave the wounded unit on the tile defended by our spear while the rest of the stack moves onto the forest .
When making the attack on Madrid we need to use the swords in the second to fourth combats against undamaged or lightly damaged archers before the spear pops to the top of the defenders to ensure the spear is attacked by axes to use there bonus vs melee. (The first fight is suicide and should be by a 4XP cover promoted axe.)
I agree Toyoda need to be defended. Surely we should also target Seville which is lightly defended, this will give us some more trade routes due to currency. Also I think we are overdoing the spearmen construction at the moment, lets switch at least one to axe/sword. Build another 1-2 swords or axes and we can send a second stack over there (just 2 archers at 20% in the screenie).
City Management
Kyoto should be working Fish instead of Crab for +1 food to speed the day when we will have enough population to rush the market.
Osaka should be working oasis instead of flood plain for +1 gold and the same food.
With only 4 cities to manage we should not be missing this MM stuff.
Good luck Merum.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Got the save and opened it.
Will try to play tonight, else it will be late tomorrow.
I'm almost tempted to take Barcelona, given that the stack is standing right next to it.
Looks like we could just march the two swords we have at home over to Seville and snatch it, too.
I can get pottery in 3 turns at 100%.
Will try to play tonight, else it will be late tomorrow.
I'm almost tempted to take Barcelona, given that the stack is standing right next to it.
Looks like we could just march the two swords we have at home over to Seville and snatch it, too.
I can get pottery in 3 turns at 100%.
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