SGOTM 02 - Team CFR

akots said:
We also need a central city to chop Palace there.
I think Osaka beats any other location, by far, for that purpose. Osaka covers a lot of territory, with many forests, with its cultural borders.

And Lexad, Balbesgrad is 1W of where you put it in your screenshot. It's the great 3-resources-in-1st-radius city.
 
Sorry, my bad. Though I would have preferred less tundra, more important than 3 resources in 1st radius, you have 2 wood in 1st radius which is the real launcher of your city's growth.

Add-on: I propose akots making not 10 but all turns required for IW so that we can have a discussion in between turns and don't make next player wait in the middle of his game.
 
Pre-turn 1900BC. Boat builds net on crabs near Kyoto. Growth there in 5, Library just started, need a few turns before it can be whipped. Not going to happen anytime soon, might as well another boat. Growth is Osaka only in six turns and we lose precious turns towards Iron Working, so worker waked up and will move to forest for a chop. Settler ready in 10 turns. It hurts to see a city which can grow to size 6 being stuck at size 4. Move northern warrior SE. Press Enter but with a troubled heart. This game is somewhat wrong. We have nice income but not working enough food and not growing.

[2] Shuffle some warriors here and there, hopefully barbs won’t do much damage. The guy on the forested hill gets promoted, I give him nothing yet, it all will depend on who is coming at us.

[4] Starting to advance with the warriors towards the horse site. It is almost certain that we will not be able to settle in the southern spot now just because of barbarians but northern spot might be OK or the horse spot. I’ll go for the horse spot and will try to grab control over surrounding tiles with 2 warriors. There is no guarantee we will be able to keep the city though if many barbarians will show up. Kyoto reaches size 6, so I whip the library there. IW still in 8 turns from now but things will hopefully change with two scientists in Kyoto. We got 1 unhappy there for 24 turns and the other also for still quite some time, so the city is stuck at size 3.

[5] Some more barbarians killed, Library ready, hiring 2 scientists, shaves off a turn, IW in 6 but we are losing 1 gpt and there is nowhere to get it. Not sure what to build there, started on another boat, ready in 6 because of slight overflow from the Library rushing. On the other hand, changed my mind and started on Stonehedge. Hopefully, somebody will build it soon and we can gain a few gold coins. Moving a forester warrior towards the horse spot. Get open borders with Spain. Chop finished, settler ready in 2 turns. Lose a warrior in the forest against all possible odds.

[6] Worker to chop another forest for a worker or settler coming out next from Osaka but we would need more warriors.

[7] We have a settler in Osaka but this settler cannot settle anywhere. Just because there are lots of barbarians. So I park him right there in the city. Osaka set to build another warrior for now. We lose a warrior fortified on a hill with combat I and melee promotion against non-promoted barbarian again against all odds. I guess it is a payback time. Osaka to build another warrior, ready in 3 so chop still will go to settler or worker. IW in 4 turns.

[8] Finally kill the pesky guy because he was wounded. IW in 2 turns.

[10] May be I skipped a turn or two, I don’t know. Anyhow, IW is ready and we have iron right near Osaka. Research set to Pottery (ready in 4 turns) and Osaka to build worker to hook up this iron. Heroic warrior near horses got to forester II and he thus can scout 2 tiles per turn to disperse more fog. It seems we should be able to settler the city there soon. I’ll stop here even though it seems I’ve played only 9 turns, may be 10. Here is the state of the art right before the end of turn.

Osaka must be certainly allowed to grow even though this would mean halting research. We are basically wasting a great city here not working very nice oasis tiles and flood plains. Especially critical this is with iron mine which will be ready soon.

There are two possibilities, as I see it. Keep Osaka underdeveloped, continue with settler and worker there, may be chop and axeman or a sword just to be safe from barbarians. Or let it grow for a few turns. We have an option of building Oracle there as well either by chopping or just straight with an iron mine. Kyoto having two scientists provides for considerable research anyhow. From Oracle we can take Metal Casting or CoL and either one of these techs would be OK. I don’t think we need to go for CS gambit but we have this option as well. Still, IMO, Palace is a priority here. It will compensate for many things and will give us a good income.

Now, about future settling plans. Lets make it clear, food is top priority still or forests. We should try to build many cities which will be possible once the Palace is up. We also don’t need to tie the settlements to copper deposits since we already have a metal. Whether this is a good spot or bad, in terms or resources, does not matter. Once we have one iron and one horse, that is all that we might need. But rapid growth and production should be important. Production in the first phase can come from forest chops. So, IMHO, after pottery we might consider going for Mathematics or may be Priesthood but we won’t be ready for Oracle yet. Math increases substantially chop yield and we would need it anyhow.

SG2-Os-1540BCa.JPG
 
Great!

Iron near Osaka! Gyathaar has tricked us again. We actually don't need setler now, but as we have it, we'd better locate another city in good production place as it's army-building time cause Isabella seems to have neither metals nor horses.

I'm not sure we should wait for Maths to chop Oracle? risking losing it. It is only 225 hammers, at Epic speed each of 4 forest tiles in Osaka fat cross provides 30 hammers, each 4 of 1 tile further - 24, totalling 220 - plus own high production sum up to more than sufficient number of hammers.

I'm also for Osaka's growth and think Pottery will come in handy.
 
Good job on barbarian control akots! Their attacks seem to have been getting harder, but it's already T82, and around T90 we should be going to get significant relief.

With Osaka, I'm inclined to research Priesthood next (we won't get any use from Pottery for the time being. Our workers and our cities are busy building more important stuff. If anybody has a different opinion, by all means elaborate on it.) After Priesthood is in and the worker completes, I'd start on the Oracle and go in turbo growth mode to size 5. At size 5, we're over the hump and food production will only increase with each new size.

Our settler has been sitting idle for 5 turns and we can ill afford this. Even though we're a little light on warriors, I'm confident in my tactical skills and would build the new city right away. With Iron near Osaka, the horse spot is beginning to look much better than before. However, even if religion spreads there instantly, it'll take the city at least 15 turns to really begin coming online. The southern copper spot will have fast growth and respectable production right from the start. So I'm still preferring the southern location. But could please everybody spell out their reasons in favor of another location? Are there reasons other than it would be hard to defend? (I'm certain that the southern copper spot is just as easy, if not easier, to defend.)
 
Excellent! :goodjob:

Note 1: Still iron is to the west of Osaka!
Note 2: T82 is a next! The line of defense is not ready to invasion of barbs archers
Warning: Our warrior have not cover promotion (no one)!
Note 3: If we build Oracle not in Osaka, new city will quickly expand borders

Now we have 4 main tasks:
-Protection against barbs
-Investigation of continent
-Fast expansion
-Izzy military operation

We must discuss detailed plan of cities placements and further action!
 
Balbes said:
My guess would be Oracle + Confucianism, but isn't it kind of too early for that?
Not religion - Culture line would be more abruptly!

Tactical note: At hill near Osaka is necessary to put warrior with 3 promotion and 1,9 health (So it is more safety)
 
Tactical proposal: defense of Balbesgrad; defense of Akotsgrad.

With Balbesgrad, we'd be able to eliminate the southern front, and just defend the two walls of the corridor. And with some creative fogbusting (aided by Isabella's scout), to almost eliminate the western front too.

With Akotsgrad, we're simply elongating our perimeter. But we do get the advantage of being closer to Osaka.

cfr-sgotm2-picketline.jpg
 
Akotsgrad is better move 1S - with 3 hills at 2 square radius - more productive

Warrior will stay at forest or forest hill. Barbs archers will have enough chance if warrior will stay at hill only!
 
Balbes said:
By the way gentlemen, what do you think about Murky Waters' and VQ Black's culture graphs around turn 80~85?

I think VQ Black built Pyramids (may be they've settled near stone) and Murky Water - Oracle or Stonehenge.

Since we have metal in Osaka's radius the next cuty IMHO have to be build 1 tile west or southwest from horses.
 
So here is Dynamic's opinion (he said that he has troubles with internet connection)

"I prefer Priesthood and Mathematics.
Build city E or SE from the Horses and chop Oracle. Next city on the south or somewere near Wheat and Sheeps"
 
Cat Behemoth said:
Since we have metal in Osaka's radius the next cuty IMHO have to be build 1 tile west or southwest from horses.
Can you explain the strong points of this positioning?

So here is Dynamic's opinion (he said that he has troubles with internet connection)
"I prefer Priesthood and Mathematics.
I agree.
EDIT: We'll also need Pottery somewhere along the way if Metal Casting is to be our Oracle tech.

Build city E or SE from the Horses and chop Oracle.
This may be a good idea. The quick Oracle will provide border expansion. The horse city is of course a good production city after it expands to radius 2.

I see a problem in that we won't have enough food to run a library there, so the 2 prophet points from the Oracle will go to waste.
On the location: E of the Horses we lose 2-3 flood plains, gain 1 hill. SE, we gain another hill. So I'd prefer the second option. But do we really want to lose the flood plains?
 
Roster:

Dynamic
CB
Obormot
Psitsa
akots - just played
Balbes - UP
Lexad - Preparing or is it too early, then switch with IL2T
IL2T - May be preparing

Also I'm thinking that Pottery-Priesthood-Math is the way to go. Build city one tile east of horses if barbarians permitting (we lose a flood plain tile but gain some more shields) and try to chop Oracle there. Meanwhile connect Iron and try to build-chop some unit in Osaka to defend that new city from barbarians. Then may be another settler also chopped and start there on Palace finally. It takes a long time but there is little we can do about it.
 
According to my calculations (which I encourage everybody to double-check), the Oracle in E-of-Horses will take 18 turns to build. This assumes improving the horses first, then chopping 5 forests, with both of our workers. All choping must not be disturbed by barbarians or it will be longer.

In Osaka, it will take 20 turns to build the Oracle. Our workers will generally be free to work on improvements after mining the Iron.

In short, I'm in favor of building the Oracle in Osaka.
 
akots said:
Also I'm thinking that Pottery-Priesthood-Math is the way to go.
Why do you think Pottery should come before Priesthood?

try to build-chop some unit in Osaka to defend that new city from barbarians.
If only 1 worker is chopping for the Oracle then it will really take forever.

Then may be another settler also chopped and start there on Palace finally. It takes a long time but there is little we can do about it.
We can go take out Isabella which will really speed us up.
 
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