SGOTM 06 - Fifth Element

[AlanH]

Well done, Guys

Now go and see how the others did. Please don't post in any thread where they haven't finished yet, though.

 

[BLubmuz]

Thanks Alan and Dutch.
I'm astonished how the top teams researched Astro!
We was unsure it was needed until we met a Ragnar Caravel... perhaps we took too long our continental wars.

 

[leif erikson]

Congratulations on a successful finish.



It was fun watching to see if you would make it.

 

[BLubmuz]

Of course we made it, no doubt.

What i find strange was that rush for Astro by all the top teams, long before we know for sure it was needed.
Bah, i got my theories on this...

 

[Sweetacshon]

Nice finish, team. The battle is always uphill against tech superiority, but the biggest battle here was flagging spirits. Well done sticking it out. I'm off to check out the other teams...

Of course we made it, no doubt. No doubts? At all?

What i find strange was that rush for Astro by all the top teams, long before we know for sure it was needed.
Bah, i got my theories on this...

Care to elaborate?

edit: Blubmuz, could you pls upload the turn before the win, so the game goes into my HoF?

 

[BLubmuz]

Care to elaborate?
I'd like, prolly i'll do it in few days, together with more.
Now i'm playing the game, i like to see what i can do with all the knowledge
edit: Blubmuz, could you pls upload the turn before the win, so the game goes into my HoF?

Ask and ye shall receive...

 

[greatbeyond]

I'm not to disappointed for my first SGOTM, hopefully I've learned a lot.

 

[BLubmuz]

For those of you which didn't noticed, and are seriously interested to give an actual contribution to the team, there's a new SG here.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Congratulations on a successful finish.



It was fun watching to see if you would make it.

I'm surprised anyone was watching our bungling I guess you needed something to do, because everyone else was finished and we were holding the results up.

Nice to see Merum is in. Also Blubmus, GB... are you in dutchfire? Is there anyone else?

 

[MacBalt]

Nice to see Merum is in. Also Blubmus, GB... are you in dutchfire? Is there anyone else?

Hi everyone. Blubmuz invited me to join Fifth Element so here I am - thanks for taking me. This will be my first SG and it looks like a heck of a game to start on! Are we having fun yet?

I refined things to match start more closely. Let me know if there are other suggestions.

 

[dutchfire]

I'm surprised anyone was watching our bungling I guess you needed something to do, because everyone else was finished and we were holding the results up.

Nice to see Merum is in. Also Blubmus, GB... are you in dutchfire? Is there anyone else?

I was the first to sign up for Fifth Element, thank you very much

Looks like it's going to be a rough game, deity with this many civs. Permanent alliances are on though, maybe we could look into that, it might be our only chance at winning (if we survive all the way to Communism/Fascism)

 

[MacBalt]

1. Diety
2. no
3. no
4. I was invited to play with Fifth Element.

Wow! Kudos to whoever recruited WastinTime. I've read some of his dialogs with Jesusin in the HOF threads concerning culture games. Very impressive stuff from two of the best players around. We might stand some kind of chance this game after all... at least for getting some good lessons from a master. Welcome aboard WastinTime, and thanks for accepting the invitation (...or at least acknowledging it! ).

 

[BLubmuz]

I did!
I know him as one of the best players (just look at the HoF tables in the highest levels) and we have some discussions in the HoF.
Probably he was tempted by the kind of game.
Let's wait, surely we'll have something to learn.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Blubmuz
GB
Merum
Dutchfire
Balthalion
WastinTime
me
(I'm guessing civicide has flown the coop)

That is a big roster. No more, pls, captain. Welcome to the new members. I look forward to this short one, and can't wait for our thread to open so we can start discussing it. We are in the almost unique position of seeing most of our territory on turn 0

 

[dutchfire]

Welcome WastinTime!

Permanent Alliances are on, so I think our best bet will be to join the best AI.
Stone makes Pyramids -> Representation attractive. Then again, Marble makes the Oracle attractive. Let's hope we don't have Monty on our doorstep, so we can spare some hammers on wonders.

 

[BLubmuz]

That is a big roster. No more, pls, captain. Welcome to the new members.

We was short last game, and some playin' member didn't contributed much to the strategy (guess who i am referring to).
Thus i thought we need some more, to increase discussion and ideas.
WastinTime is a great addition, especially for this game, and i noted Balthalion in some thread, he seemed a good choice.
Surely better than a perfect stranger which disappear after the first post.

Don't worry, i think we're OK.
Well, if perhaps Balbes accept your invitation we'll find a little room for him, too .

About my theories on SG6:
I made some attempt and:
1) i manage to capture Timbuktu on turn 53 with a single axe, but i settled between the 2 rivers gaining the time to hook the copper and i knew exactly where to send the axe. Derive what you want, but i'm very doubtful on a clean game.
2) then i went for CoL, of course founded in Timbuktu, switched to CS and putted 2 scientists at work to have a GS for Mathematics while res. other techs
3) Managed to have CS from Oracle, timing the finish 1 turn after the GS popped: great? no! CS opens paper/edu and this is a mistake, if you wanna go straight for Astro you must avoid it 'til you get it. But: how do you know you need Astro in turn 120 or so? same conclusiom IMHO.
4) it was a great game, i managed liberalism for astro, but in 1000 AD, far better than our official game but ages after the top teams finished.

To you the conclusions.

 

[Sweetacshon]

We was short last game, and some playin' member didn't contributed much to the strategy

Hey... I was ... busy Anyway, I just think that the bigger a team is, the harder it is to keep cohesion, and if that is lost, strategy and team spirit suffers, as in this game. I think 4 is ideal for a SG, and 6 for a SGOTM, and we aren't far off that, and I'm happy with the current team, but I guess I was just hoping you hadn't invited anyone else. (edit: As in more than an 8-man team)

About my theories on SG6:
I made some attempt and:
1) i manage to capture Timbuktu on turn 53 with a single axe, but i settled between the 2 rivers gaining the time to hook the copper and i knew exactly where to send the axe. Derive what you want, but i'm very doubtful on a clean game.
2) then i went for CoL, of course founded in Timbuktu, switched to CS and putted 2 scientists at work to have a GS for Mathematics while res. other techs
3) Managed to have CS from Oracle, timing the finish 1 turn after the GS popped: great? no! CS opens paper/edu and this is a mistake, if you wanna go straight for Astro you must avoid it 'til you get it. But: how do you know you need Astro in turn 120 or so? same conclusiom IMHO.
4) it was a great game, i managed liberalism for astro, but in 1000 AD, far better than our official game but ages after the top teams finished.

To you the conclusions.

Only 1 team took Timbuktu early, didn't they? It is a bit fluky, granted, but I recall in their thread that they had realised that there was no chance of skirmishers, and that for a laurel, it was worth the risk. As for early astro, I think some people (who are well versed in map scripts) saw big and small/medium sea level and just figured they'd need it. I have no problems with how the other teams played, and am actually very impressed. Our team this game was in no position to come even close to their level, partly due to the cohesion mentioned earlier.

 

[MacBalt]

WastinTime is a great addition, especially for this game, and i noted Balthalion in some thread, he seemed a good choice.
Surely better than a perfect stranger which disappear after the first post.

Ha! I promise not to disappear, anyway (unless requested to do so )!

I consider myself an intermediate player, and I've done reasonably well for that level in the last several XOTMs (though it looks like I screwed up BOTM 04 pretty good). Always trying to improve by finding good teachers though, and I believe in the "Jesusin philosophy" of using this site both to freely share what I know (or think I know) and to learn from everyone else. Winning would be great, but it is third priority behind (1) having fun and (2) improving my game. SGOTM looks like a great way to do that.

That said, there are still many ways I remain a total noob. For example: How did you get that spiffy box around your file attachment GreatBeyond? My attachment a few posts up looks dull by comparison (though it still seems to work ok). Where/how does everyone get the cool avatars? I've looked a couple of times on the site (okay, maybe without much conviction) and I can't figure out how to upload a unique picture file to serve as an avatar. Also, I've played the XOTM regularly for several months now, but I haven't spent any time at the Hall of Fame section of the site, so I don't know much about how it works (though I've enjoyed some of the discussion threads there quite a bit).

I just think that the bigger a team is, the harder it is to keep cohesion, and if that is lost, strategy and team spirit suffers, as in this game. I think 4 is ideal for a SG, and 6 for a SGOTM, and we aren't far off that, and I'm happy with the current team, but I guess I was just hoping you hadn't invited anyone else. (edit: As in more than an 8-man team)

I tend to agree, with the exception BLubmuz noted earlier:

Well, if perhaps Balbes accept your invitation we'll find a little room for him, too .

Honestly if I'd known there were any possibility both WastinTime and Balbes might decide to join the team I probably would have been too intimidated to accept the invitation!

 

[Sweetacshon]

(though it looks like I screwed up BOTM 04 pretty good)

Oh man, I haven't played xotms for a while, but decided to give this one a go, but only in the last few days. Had a slight tech lead after rifling beeline for redcats and had amassed a large force for intercontinental invasion. It was late at night and I dropped them off in a few locations, forgetting to promote the units and pressing enter, so the only promoted units were my upgraded CR3s, and without iron for cannon, my attack was stalled, the game effectively over (due to the fact that the deadline is today - my only hope was a blitzkrieg to get it done in time). Well, that's what you get for playing in the early am.

 

[oyzar]

Hey... I was ... busy Anyway, I just think that the bigger a team is, the harder it is to keep cohesion, and if that is lost, strategy and team spirit suffers, as in this game. I think 4 is ideal for a SG, and 6 for a SGOTM, and we aren't far off that, and I'm happy with the current team, but I guess I was just hoping you hadn't invited anyone else. (edit: As in more than an 8-man team)

Only 1 team took Timbuktu early, didn't they? It is a bit fluky, granted, but I recall in their thread that they had realised that there was no chance of skirmishers, and that for a laurel, it was worth the risk. As for early astro, I think some people (who are well versed in map scripts) saw big and small/medium sea level and just figured they'd need it. I have no problems with how the other teams played, and am actually very impressed. Our team this game was in no position to come even close to their level, partly due to the cohesion mentioned earlier.

Most people figured we would need astro from what the sgotm staff had said / what people had speculated on in various thread even before the map type was known. After that it was just a matter of generating several of the maps and looks how likely that was... There were at least two teams who got timbuktu with just one axe. That the AI starting with scouts was certanly something unexpected that could have been found out by thinking of the nature of the game before it started as the staff don't want alot of people to go out really early(like in the rome aw gotm), from there on seeing that it was possible to warrior/axe rush was not the hardest thing in the world(assuming you can read graphs). Seriously though what really made the difference was who researched BW first instead of AG(we settled on the banana which i still belive to be the surperior choice even with the knowledge that at least one other team that did that got burned on jungle growing on the rice...). I guess i am too builder and tend towards getting food up as soon as possible instead of going for the option that fastest kill the opponents if possible... That said with the right slingshots and some luck i belive it would be possible to improve on MW's date, although not by much. Knowledge of the map is worth so much... In BLubmuz' game for example. If he had slingshoted for machinery instead and focused on getting 3 GS for astro as well as building pyramids(or some teams actually stole it from alex!!) he would probably been able to finish quite alot faster... You do however need focus from the start and straying from the path can cost you dearly(we built way too many units in the midgame and didn't get oracle/col and got pyramids very late which caused our late finish, on prince you don't need anything but swordsmen to wipe out the AI...).