SGOTM 06 - Trash Team

chopster · Jan 7, 2008

In which case 1 E of the yellow circle probably isn't a bad place for a city which can pump out similar hammer numbers.

patagonia · Jan 7, 2008

chopster said:
In which case 1 E of the yellow circle probably isn't a bad place for a city which can pump out similar hammer numbers.

True, and it's a site we'll want to fill in later in the game. However, for now we should really be planning to take cities from our neighbours. That'll make us stronger and them weaker, which is the only way to succeed in an AW game.

The number 1 priority has to be pillaging Alex's horses. Once we've done that, he can only build archers unless he finally gets round to roading that copper tile, something we should be able to prevent fairly easily. In terms of garrisons, we shouldn't underestimate the stupidity of the AI at war - a stack of archers can mean a settler party in the offing, and HA don't get defensive bonuses so they should be easy pickings when the time comes.

In terms of military targets, we should leave Argos - it's not benefiting Alex any and won't do so for us immediately either. Better to spend that time and effort denying him strategic resources and preparing for an assault on one of his major cities in my opinion.

EDIT:

In terms of longer term strategy, do we need to worry about the bulbability of astronomy? If we've got early access to Representation via the pyramids, that becomes kind of a moot point, doesn't it? The raw beakers we'll be able to pull in by running an SE will get us there pretty quickly as it is. Will early Theocracy to help clean the continent have more of a benefit? Both have their advantages...

chopster · Jan 7, 2008

Yes, I did mean later - not now.

I moved the LB to the gold hill in the IBT to get a good look at Athens.
Now the bad news:

I don't think we'll be taking Athens without catapults, or else there will be some severe losses. 50% cultural defence, on a hill, 5 CG1 Archers and 4 other units.

I'll save the game here, and we can talk more about exactly where we want to go from here. I'm guessing my turnset will be more military building, and less actual city attacking - but I welcome everyone's input.

Cam_H · Jan 7, 2008

chopster said:
I don't think we'll be taking Athens without catapults, or else there will be some severe losses. 50% cultural defence, on a hill, 5 CG1 Archers and 4 other units.

I'll save the game here, and we can talk more about exactly where we want to go from here. I'm guessing my turnset will be more military building, and less actual city attacking - but I welcome everyone's input.

(Disclaimer: I haven't got my Warlords disc at hand, so I'm just going off reports)

'Yep', pillage for the time being.

I wonder what the whip weariness is like in Athens?! :eek:

I'm prepared to go along with patagonia's position on capturing rather than settling cities given his experience with always at war Warlords games, but if this was single player; rightly or wrongly, I'd be looking at getting out a couple of Settlers. As I said though, I'm not as experienced with this format.

remconius · Jan 8, 2008

We should keep some pillagers near athens to prevent him from hooking up cooper. Meanwhile we can move the new stack of doom to pillage the horsies.

chopster · Jan 8, 2008

I feel I may have killed our game with one stroke of the enter key.
Not moving the LBs for additional cover to the workers was a big mistake. The LBs were fortified and the chariot hid the workers so I missed them on my checks. Alex's horse archer didn't even raise a sweat killing the chariot and eating our workers. I'm not sure I can even play the rest of this turn set with how I feel right now.

stuge · Jan 8, 2008

Two lost workers isn't a game breaker, we'll capture lots of them later on.

Just be confident and go on.

cabert · Jan 8, 2008

chopster said:
I feel I may have killed our game with one stroke of the enter key.
Not moving the LBs for additional cover to the workers was a big mistake. The LBs were fortified and the chariot hid the workers so I missed them on my checks. Alex's horse archer didn't even raise a sweat killing the chariot and eating our workers. I'm not sure I can even play the rest of this turn set with how I feel right now.

it's going to happen again, it's AW!

I never managed to win an AW game :eek:

play on, we'll manage.

I had the same feeling after I had exhausted our whole army in sgotm3, but we still won in the end.

pigswill · Jan 8, 2008

"Killed our game". Don't think so. Couple of workers, phsaw, fiddlesticks etc.

As cabert said he blew away our stack of a dozen axes/cats in sgotm3 :lol:

and we still won.

Pillage, learn construction, build longbows till cats come available then keep building cats and win the game :cool:

.

Cam_H · Jan 8, 2008

cabert said:
I had the same feeling after I had exhausted our whole army in sgotm3, but we still won in the end.

No - that was 'ballsed up' by another player who missed a vital Wonder (the one Mao got) because they wanted to toss in an unnecessary city improvement beforehand ... don't get me started on that one!

Chopster ... no problem here either ... allows me one 'guilt free :smoke:

' later on! :lol:

patagonia · Jan 8, 2008

We're trash team after all :smoke:

chopster · Jan 8, 2008

Sparta is only guarded by 2 Archers, so if it looks like an easy victory, should I take it instead of pillaging the horses?

Alex is getting sneaky.

That's one HA and one chariot there. I've moved the LB in the shot back to there this turn, and there's an axe there too produced in York 2 turns ago.

Thinking of Spear (next turn) to copper, LB to London (promote to CG3), and axe to fortify on the gold.

chopster · Jan 8, 2008

All in all a very disappointing turnset for me.
First the workers

then the log continues below.

Turn 166/660 (10 BC) [09-Jan-2008 10:07:42]
York finishes: Axeman

IBT:
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'

Turn 167/660 (5 AD) [09-Jan-2008 10:08:56]
York begins: Longbowman (6 turns)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

Turn 168/660 (20 AD) [09-Jan-2008 10:10:37]
London finishes: Spearman

IBT:

Turn 169/660 (35 AD) [09-Jan-2008 10:58:33]
London begins: Spearman (4 turns)
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Combat II
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Spearman promoted: Combat II
Tech learned: Mathematics
Nottingham finishes: Longbowman

IBT:

Turn 170/660 (50 AD) [09-Jan-2008 11:02:06]
Research begun: Construction (22 Turns)
Nottingham begins: Longbowman (8 turns)
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison II
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison III

IBT:
While defending in English territory at London, Axeman loses to: Greek Chariot (0.80/4) (Prob Victory: 50.0%)

chopster - Coin flip didn't go our way

Turn 171/660 (65 AD) [09-Jan-2008 11:04:54]
London finishes: Spearman

IBT:
While defending in English territory at London, Longbowman defeats (6.00/6): Greek Chariot (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
A Farm was destroyed near London

Turn 172/660 (80 AD) [09-Jan-2008 11:06:14]
London begins: Spearman (5 turns)
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Spearman promoted: Combat II
While attacking in English territory at London, Spearman defeats (2.08/4): Greek Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 88.9%)
York finishes: Longbowman

IBT:
While defending in English territory near London, Spearman loses to: Greek Horse Archer (6.00/6) (Prob Victory: 4.3%)

Turn 173/660 (95 AD) [09-Jan-2008 11:08:06]
York begins: Axeman (4 turns)
A Farm was built near London
Longbowman promoted: Combat I
Longbowman promoted: Combat II
While attacking in English territory near London, Longbowman loses to: Greek Horse Archer (3.60/6) (Prob Victory: 50.0%)

chopster - took a 50% to try and save our gold - another coin flip didn't go our way

IBT:
A Mine was destroyed near London

Turn 174/660 (110 AD) [09-Jan-2008 11:11:40]

IBT:
A Farm was destroyed near London

Turn 175/660 (125 AD) [09-Jan-2008 11:13:33]
While attacking in English territory at London, Spearman defeats (1.60/4): Greek Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 97.1%)

Current state of affairs:

London - threats averted - 2 farms and gold mine pillaged

Road building - going ok

Workboat exploration - he's still alive and finding new lands for us

turn log from submission

Spoiler :

Save file is HERE

Feel free to rubbish this performance - I clearly need work on my game.
To be honest, I'm surprised the score went up for this set - Mathematics was the only saving grace I'm sure.

cabert · Jan 9, 2008

LBs aren't that great vs HA, that's a clear thing.
+ they cost more than spearmen, so you did what had to be done by building a spear.
This leads me to suggest once more to build axes and spears instead of full steam LBs.

chopster · Jan 9, 2008

Apparently the GOTM server is down at the moment, so I'll attach the save here in case anyone needs to review it (or play) in the meantime.

patagonia · Jan 10, 2008

The GOTM server's working again now.

I know we had a bit of a crisis back at the ranch in the last set with those Greek HA, but there are a couple of things going on that don't make much sense:

Having our workers building road in Greek territory is totally . It'd make sense to send them back to redevelop London and chop the forests adjacent to Nottingham (dangerous squares to leave a defensive bonus available on).
Alex has one source of horses and it's his HA that are giving us problems. We need to pillage them as our top priority. Parking a Longbow on the forest hill 2N of the horses should then be sufficient to stifle Alex and stop him from repasteurising them.

Parking a Guerilla 2 Longbow on the forest hill our road to Greece runs through at the chokepoint should be enough to prevent any unwanted surprises in the future. Don't forget that he can use the road to get to us; not just us to get to him.

In other news, Hannibal's power is starting to shoot up. That's partly due to the Warlords AI's penchant for growing cities massive early under HR, but also means we may not be far from seeing the odd Carthaginian stack approaching our borders. Mansa's totally anaemic (ie more pathetic than we are) so we don't need to worry about him yet.

==========

Proposed plan:

Pull workers back to redevelop London and chop units out of Nottingham (we've got Maths now to make that more lucrative).
Send a couple of Longbows (and a spear maybe) to pillage Alex's horses and stifle Sparta, which will solve a lot of our problems.
Settle GP and GG in London (money, gold, hammers and XPs) - we should get both this turnset. If we're able to build a military academy, we should do that rather than settle, but I think that's been fixed to require Education now.

We'll need about 10 cats to take out Alex (4 accuracy, the rest CR2 or barrage 2 - promoted as and when necessary) so the next couple of turnsets should probably focus on building a mixed Longbow, Axe/Spear SoD. Spears are probably more important than axes, since the AI loves to go Cav-Happy so they'll double up as defensive units. A woodsman 2 spear/axe combo will make a terrific stifling team to send at Hannibal. He's got horses in Carthage we can't reach easily, but denying him access to Jumbos and scouting out his land will be important. Building a sentry-promoted chariot might not be a bad idea.

cabert · Jan 10, 2008

I agree with the proposed plan.
Who's up? me?

remconius · Jan 10, 2008

Roster
-Remconius
-chopster (just played)
-stuge (UP)
-cabert (on deck)
-patagonia
-pigswill
-Cam_H

I thought we already decided before the last turnset to pillage the horses :crazyeye:

stuge · Jan 10, 2008

The plan seems clear enough. I'll play tomorrow.

chopster · Jan 10, 2008

The square the workers are roading on only became Greek territory this turn.

I was going to pillage the horses when I got down there, but there was no way I was losing another two workers, and on occasion they were on different tiles - so 2 LBs each guarded them - with the luck I had with 50% shots (0 from 2) I wasn't about to take too many chances with those precious babies.

I was sending a LB to guard that very forest hill you mention patagonia, when the HA's showed up, and he doubled back to London.

The proposed plans sound good.

SGOTM 06 - Trash Team

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