SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw

[Silu]

From what I can gather (god damn that stuff is complicated and all over the damn place), AIs treat all the available health and happy resources equally except Ivory (because it enables an unit and speeds SoZ) and Gold (because it boosts Shwedagon Paya). The value is raised from 10 to 11 for Gold because of SP, and is lowered back to 10 when it is built. The extra bonus is doubled, bringing the total up to 12, when the Gold-owner Civ can actually build the thing.

Some other stuff affect this as well like buildings having the resource as a prereq or getting it as a free bonus (applies to none of the normal Civ4 buildings), giving power (as in for Coal and Uranium), and giving bonus yield modifiers (only applies for the Ironworks), and of course enabling units but none that concern the happy/health stuff. Stuff like, if they have the tech to benefit from the extra resource bonus (like MC->Forge for Gold), or the amount of that bonus (like Cathedral->+2 from Incense) does apparently not affect it's perceived value.

Anyway, AIs never trade if their side's perceived value is higher than the human's. So what we can bring home is, Gold cannot be traded 1:1 before the SP is built, even if the Gold-owner doesn't have Aesth&Medi. At least that's what I think.

 

[babybluepants]

That makes sense. Just for interest, how do those values work? Would 11:10 correspond to +1gpt in trade value? If that was the case, would he cancel the deal when he gets Aest+Medi?

 

[LowtherCastle]

That makes sense. Just for interest, how do those values work? Would 11:10 correspond to +1gpt in trade value? If that was the case, would he cancel the deal when he gets Aest+Medi?

Excellent question, since we could trade fish clams for 2gpt.

 

[shyuhe]

How do people feel about monarchy for math + alphabet? Saladin gets the slightly better end of this deal but it won't give up our money. We can of course waiting on monarchy and hope its price goes down, but the value of math/alphabet may drop as well.

 

[Silu]

Apparently the value of gpt is 0.2 per gpt, or 0.3 per gpt if the AI is in "financial trouble" (a boolean state for AIs). These values should be comparable...

EDIT: As I understand this, most resource trades are not cancelled on the spot if the AI's side of the deal is more valuable than the human's - they need to be over 10% more valuable before they break the deal.

EDIT2: Not sure what exactly makes AIs sometimes give 15 and sometimes 50 gpt for a single happiness resource; I was expecting to see some kind of "a lot of unhappy citizens? value of happy resources increased" check but didn't see any thus far...

 

[mystyfly]

@shyuhe: I don't think we should trade for HR now, we don't need it and such a lopsided trade isn't favourable. If sal gets his hands on some gold you may go ahead imo.

 

[babybluepants]

How do people feel about monarchy for math + alphabet? Saladin gets the slightly better end of this deal but it won't give up our money. We can of course waiting on monarchy and hope its price goes down, but the value of math/alphabet may drop as well.

I'd rather hold off on the Monarchy trade, but I don't object too, too strongly either. Maybe just go ahead and do as you like.

 

[shyuhe]

I'll hold off on monarchy until we can get a near even trade in which Saladin gives us cash. I'll try to update the PPP later tonight.

 

[shyuhe]

Sorry team, didn't have time last night I'll post an updated PPP tonight.

 

[Silu]

What's this, over 12 hours without posts? We're just getting sloppy now.

 

[shyuhe]

Probably me to blame since I didn't post an updated PPP as promised!

 

[mystyfly]

What's this, over 12 hours without posts? We're just getting sloppy now.

... in this case we'll just start spamming to get our postcount up again Yup, waiting for the updated PPP

 

[babybluepants]

I was sleeping... And, yes, waiting for the PPP. Though, tbh, I thought we hashed out all the issues? shyuhe could post the PPP for 12 hrs in case, but otherwise could just play, I think. I'm kinda expecting our scouts to keep find interesting things for the next little while and TS's to keep stopping and starting, so we should move it along.

While we're waiting, we could just spam the thread about something else. Like, who's gonna win the World Cup: LC, Ras, mysty or me? (Am I forgetting someone? Surely not Finland.)

 

[Silu]

Well last time, in 2004, Finland was 2nd in the World Cup so don't count us out! Will be exciting to see who wins the next one in 2011.

...

Wait, or did you mean football? Who watches that?

 

[mystyfly]

Bet it's either spain or argentina... hope not germany. Our preformance on tuesday against costarica... just pathetic. And another for mentionning domenech's french squad

 

[babybluepants]

Brazil or Holland, I think (though, tbh, I've probably thought that every WC since I started watching ). Spain's gonna choke, as usual, but not before they inflict a vicious beating on someone.

 

[mystyfly]

Bah, spain broke their choke 2 years ago when winning the EC. With half the team being barca, nobody can beat them And well, that beating is predestined lol but as long as we defeat honduras and chile I'm fine... but I kinda doubt that. Brazil is not strong enough atm I think, but yeah, the dutch are really good, love how they play.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I was sleeping... And, yes, waiting for the PPP. Though, tbh, I thought we hashed out all the issues? shyuhe could post the PPP for 12 hrs in case, but otherwise could just play, I think. I'm kinda expecting our scouts to keep find interesting things for the next little while and TS's to keep stopping and starting, so we should move it along.

The only thing that's nagging at me is the worker at Ivory. He'll be available in less than 20t. Will we have a galley available? Those worker turns are valuable.

---------------

I'd put my money on Spain this year, despite their history of underachievement. I think they've got it going. They were unstoppable in the qualifications. As for the Group with England and the US--watch out for Slovenia. They might be a sleeper. But not a threat to win it all.

 

[shyuhe]

The only thing that's nagging at me is the worker at Ivory. He'll be available in less than 20t. Will we have a galley available? Those worker turns are valuable.

Yes the galley will be available. I was going to head the galley east after dropping off the goods at sugar. The "gold" settler won't be available until later anyways, and I'm still not convinced we even want to settle it...

All this soccer talk is driving me sick! We follow AMERICAN SPORTS on this forum. And that excludes soccer (since our team sucks).

 

[babybluepants]

Yeah, I think we should just go back and ferry the worker. Really not sure what to do about this longer term, though. We do need another galley as a bare minimum, but could probably use more soon. Ivory will just have to build one or two at a sacrifice to proper development.