SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[Manco Capac]

Okay, I have done some testing I immediately change to get a conservative position and Burke should remain where we agreed to see a stack coming. Going further is too risky and bowmen are likely to attack. If the city wasn't that misplaced, the option could have being considered but, not in this situation.

 

[shulec]

Will Hamuragawa attack by land, or will he show up in galleys? We may have to worry about PigGems. Maybe start a trireme there.

 

[Manco Capac]

Will Hamuragawa attack by land, or will he show up in galleys? We may have to worry about PigGems. Maybe start a trireme there.

Why would he attack via waters when an available land route exist?
Anyways, I don't think he'll that far. And AI sucks on water base wars.

 

[mabraham]

I like another Axe in Delhi because I would like to counter-attack and own 1-2 toku cities before we get peace.

Protective and Aggressive Toku's going to have shock axes and protective archers defending... I don't see much to gain from going on the offensive when we are behind on tech. Osaka having culture is a lose-lose proposition for us - both our corn access is delayed and he's got extra defence. If Osaka doesn't have culture, we don't gain much of anything by taking it, except as peace bait. And if we are in the position to go on the offensive, wouldn't we rather use our hammers to build towards our VC (Pyramids, AP, triremes, missionaries, libraries, AP-buffed temples and monasteries) and hope for AP-dogpile to get us some diplo benefits elsewhere? Keeping Toku at war but achieving nothing is going to mean we out-tech him, and can stomp him at leisure later on. Surely Theocracy-powered crossbows (assuming iron), spears and catapults will be fine?

We probably want peace with Hammu - worst case we can probably use MC for peace if he shows up and we're under too much pressure to defend.

 

[bcool]

I agree that going on the offensive without a tech advantage vs. protective archers and shock axe isn't worth the hammer investment. His cities are not that great. I think we should plan to settle banana/crabs/marble before investing the hammers necessary to take a city from Toku.

Taking cities would cripple Toku and so he wouldn't be a threat in the future, but we will have the AP soon. The AP will protect and/or give us a holy war option against Toku.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I need more immediate comment on my t71 PPP Rev 0. Suggested changes and supporters of same are listed below. Please add or clarify your position on these, assuming you have a definite preference:

Delhi:
resume Forge: STW, bcool, mabraham,
start Axeman: shulec, WastinTime,
No chop into Forge: bcool, STW,
2 Workers start Road 1-N (plan to build Road N -> NW -> N -> N -> NW -> Deergold City for defensive unit transit): STW,

Deergold City:
2-N+3-W Warrior advances into Hammuragawa's Culture (via Forests?) looking for Workers to steal/harass (probably more the latter) from Road building and seeking SoD location and composition: Tachywaxon, mabraham, STW,

SheepTown:
start Axeman:
resume The Pyramids: STW,
start Granary: mabrahams,

CowTown:
1-N+2-W Worker chops to build Axeman in 1t:
Worker goes to 1-N of Delhi to build Road: STW,
Comment: Since Tokugawa's stack has only 6 units versus my tests where he had an extra Axeman, we need 1 less Axeman in SheepTown for defense (a total of 6 rather than 7 Axemen), so saving this Forest for another purpose or even waiting for Mathematics to use it seems prudent; remember that it is in Delhi's BFC too.

PigGems:
continue Axeman (until 1 Pop whippable): STW,
start Trireme: shulec,
resume Granary: bcool,

Not in t71:

Build offensive quantity of Axemen (at least 8) and capture 1-2 of Tokugawa's cities: Tachywaxon, WastinTime,
Wait until Machinery and build Crossbowmen/Swordsmen? and Catapults to capture maybe Tokugawa's northernmost city: mabraham,
Wait until The Apostolic Palace is completed and Holy War is an option: bcool,
Comment: There is some synergy to capturing Tokugawa's northernmost city, since we need at least 5-6 Axemen for the immediate defense of SheepTown; building 2-3 more isn't that much more of a stretch. I'm sure it could be done, before the Axemen are needed to defend against Hammuragawa's SoD. Need to consider how many protective Archers Tokugawa can whip there though as our SoD approaches. Osaka already has Archers CG2Dr1 + CG1Dr1 and can whip 1-2 Archers as our SoD approaches; Capturing Osaka no longer seems viable. A worker can start building a Road there to get our stack there 1 turn sooner.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Notes:

Turn 70 went according to plan, except the lone Tokugawa Axeman disappeared (into the fog?).

Delhi will resume building its Forge. The second Axeman planned there is not needed in this time frame, since it was too late to save SheepTown in any case and now we have some confidence that the Scout/Axeman gambit will work and SheepTown will be safe; that is this turn set's major goal in my opinion.

Whipping overflow (16H + 1 Hpt) x 2 = 34H will be banked into The Pyramids. We could put it into a Granary, but with the Corn Farm soon to be donated by Tokugawa, we don't really have Growth issues and can manage the first few Populations of growth without a Granary.

Research:

00% to build Treasury that may be needed to upgrade more Warriors to Axemen. This is now more for setting up binary research and yes maintaining a minimum balance of 80W is probably a good idea while we are still at war with not quite an adequate defense.

Cities:

Delhi: 6F, 4F1C, 2F4H1C, 1F3H: resume Forge
2-E Worker -> 2-W and builds Road.
1-N+2-E Worker -> 1-S+2-W and builds Road.
Axeman -> 2-SE.

Deergold City: 5F1H, 3H8C, 2F1H: continue Axeman (may whip later if needed).
2-S Worker finishes Farm 1t.
1-W Warrior -> 1-NW (next turn -> 1-NW to choke point).
2-N+3-W Warrior -> 1-N (following turn -> 1-NW; then can choose from 2 Forests to enter Hammurabi's Culture).

SheepTown: 3H8C: 16H overflow + 1 Hpt -> The Pyramids
4 Axemen fortify (C1Med1 10% F, NP 5% F, NP, NP).
3-W Worker completes building Road (for Scout).

CowTown: 4F2H: resume Axeman.
1-N+2-W Worker chops to build Axeman in 1t.

PigsGems: 2F1H7C: Continues Axeman for 2t more; Granary remains 2nd in Queue. (Granary may resume in 2t).

Final Notes:

Cancelled after this turn:... until military situation stabilizes shall be played 1t per 24 hour period or sooner with team consensus. I hope we can push through a few turns on Sunday till the "military situation stabilizes".

After this turn, I will publish a PPP for the remaining 8t of my turn set on Sunday.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Unless, someone has strong objections, I plan to execute t71 PPP Rev 1 in one hour.

After that, I will prepare a PPP for my remaining 8t.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Unless, someone has strong objections, I plan to execute t71 PPP Rev 1 in one hour.

Ok, I will start play of t71 using PPP Rev 1 (two posts back) in a few minutes. When done, I will upload the save and publish a results post and then work on a 8t PPP.

CowTown:
> 1-N+2-W Worker chops to build Axeman in 1t.

Ignore this instruction; this worker is building a Road 1-N of Delhi; sorry about this omission.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

t71 PPP Rev 1 succeeded in all objectives (SheepTown is safe with ~99% confidence).

Hinduism spread to PigsGems.

Upload Server Log:

Spoiler :

Reference number: 11582
Game: C-IV SGOTM 15
Your team: Kakumeika
Your name: Sun Tzu Wu
Date submitted: 2012-03-18
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 1120BC
Player race: India
Firaxis score: 256
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 00:10:40
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 11:04:36
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Kakumeika_SG015_BC1160_01-First-Turn-Set-1-of-10t-REAL-GAME-0072-BC-1120-Start-of-Turn+Build-Changes+Upload-to-Server.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: Kakumeika_SG015_BC1120_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Right click the Renamed File link above to copy it.
You can then paste it into your team post as the download link for the next player.


Here is your Session Turn Log from 1160 BC to 1120 BC:

Turn 71, 1160 BC: The enemy has been spotted near SheepTown!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Tokugawa refuses to talk.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hammuragawa refuses to talk.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You are the worst enemy of Tokugawa, Hammuragawa.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Delhi will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hinduism has spread in PigsGems.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Tokugawa's Spearman (4.80) vs Gandhi's Scout 1 (CowTown) (1.25)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Gandhi's Scout 1 (CowTown) is hit for 36 (64/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Gandhi's Scout 1 (CowTown) is hit for 36 (28/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Gandhi's Scout 1 (CowTown) is hit for 36 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Tokugawa's Spearman has defeated Gandhi's Scout 1 (CowTown)!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: While defending, your Scout 1 (CowTown) was destroyed by a Japanese Spearman!

Turn 72, 1120 BC: The enemy has been spotted near SheepTown!
Turn 72, 1120 BC: Delhi has grown to size 5.
Turn 72, 1120 BC: The borders of SheepTown are about to expand.
Turn 72, 1120 BC: The borders of PigsGems are about to expand.

autolog.txt file content:

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 71/500 (1160 BC) [18-Mar-2012 11:45:02]
A Farm was built near Deergold City
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 18 per turn, 29 in the bank

After End Turn:
Delhi grows to size 5
Hinduism has spread: PigsGems

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Indian territory at SheepTown, Scout 1 (CowTown) loses to Japanese Spearman (4.00/4) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)

Please see the attached screenshot for a full view of our empire (beginning of t72).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Notes:

Turn 71 went 100% according to plan (SheepTown is now Safe provided we reinforce it with two Axemen on t72 and t73).

No city will be banking hammers into The Pyramids in t72-t73. That may change in t74.

Research:

00% to build Treasury that may be needed to upgrade more Warriors to Axemen. This is now more for setting up binary research and yes maintaining a minimum balance of 80W is probably a good idea while we are still at war with not quite an adequate defense.

Cities:

Delhi: 6F, 2F4H1C, 3 x 1F3H: continue Forge until completed in t76 (usable t77).
t72: 1-N Worker -> 1-NW and builds Road.
t72: 1-N Worker -> 1-NW and builds Road.
t72: 2-SE Axeman -> 2-E.
t73: 2-N+1-W Worker -> 1-N and builds Road.
t73: 2-N+1-W Worker -> 1-N and builds Road.

Deergold City: 5F1H, 3H8C, 2F1H: continue Axeman to completion in 3t.
t72: 2-S Worker -> 1-NE and builds Road 2t.
t72: 1-N+2-W Warrior -> 1-NW (Sign post "chokepoint").
t72: 3-NW Warrior -> 1-NW (then can choose from 2 Forests to enter Hammurabi's Culture).

SheepTown: 5F2C: 1 Hpt -> Granary
t72: 1-N+2-W Axeman -> 1-S+2-W into SheepTown.
t72: 4 Axemen fortify (C1Med1 15% F, 3 x NP 5% F).
t72: 3-W Worker -> 2-N+1-E and builds Mine 4t.

CowTown: 4F2H: continue Axeman 2t.
t74: Axeman -> Delhi for garrison duty.

PigsGems: 2F1H7C: Continues Axeman for 1t more (then 1 Pop whippable); resume Granary for rest of the turn set.

Final Notes:

Where is the most up to date Test Save? It is very hard to plan more that a few turns without a Test Save, even though we don't have that many cities and units yet.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The 1st Draft covers t72 and t73 quite well. Assuming everyone can "live with it as is", I'd like to play two more turns. Then the rest of my turn set will be easier to plan without a test save.

Otherwise, a test save through the end of bcool's turn set would be helpful.

I'd like to hear from someone within 1.5 hours regarding going ahead with two more turns as detailed in "t72-79 PPP Rev 0 - 1st Draft". I know this isn't at all proper turn set protocol, but I'm just sitting here twiddling my thumbs, not having a test save to plan beyond 2t; besides Tokugawa's stack near SheepTown is causing some definite uncertainty.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Are we willing to sacrifice Axemen to dislodge 1-2 enemy Axemen on our Gold Mine with substantial strength left after a failed attack on SheepTown? We will have 4 of 6 Axeman left over, so that should be even to kill 1-2 slightly damaged enemy Axemen. If not, we would lose that Gold Mine until we make Peace/Cease Fire with Tokugawa and probably do not want Peace with him.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

so the options are: cover the gold, or fortify in the city.
My concern is that we want that stack to suicide on Sheeptown (or on units covering the gold). That last thing we want is that stack to roam around or pick a different city. I don't know the answer without testing. And I think we need a few more opinions about whether we make a stand on the gold, or in the city.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I didn't mean fortify any of our units on the gold. I estimate that Tukogawa will lose all six of his units trying to kill our six Axemen in SheepTown at 50-75%. Tokugawa will manage to kill 1-2 of our Axemen at 25-50%. At roughly 5-10% odds he will leave 1-2 axemen at 3.5 strength or higher on our Gold Mine. There is a chance he will pillage it, so we may want to attack these units at 50% or lower to weaken them enough to kill with a second Axma each. I think we want to sacrifice 1-2 Axemen to secure our Gold Mine right after Tokugawa's suicide attack.

I will be able to play in 1.5 hours from now (that is 1 hour more than previously mentioned).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[bcool]

I'm sorry STW but I really think you should wait at least 24 hours before you play.

We want to plan out turns a bit farther in advance now that the threat is not immediate.

I will work on making the test game, so that you can better plan the rest of your turn set.

 

[mabraham]

PPP feedback - with the Hindu spread in PigsGems we will get culture spread to the Pigs sooner than we planned. I don't think we need to be committing 3 workers to roads to the NW at this point, and if we do, I think moving one of the workers 1N of Delhi to the forest 2N2W of it makes more sense than putting up a one-turn road 1N1W of it.

 

[Kaitzilla]

t71 PPP Rev 1 succeeded in all objectives (SheepTown is safe with ~99% confidence).

I am astounded at the amazing results you guys have achieved with so much testing

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

bcool, I'm fine with using our usual turn set protocol, especially since you have committed to update our test save to the end of your turn set. My secondary concern is my turn set is taking too long and we may run out of time in our end-game.

Let's try to hammer out at least t72-t73 so I can play those turns Monday evening. Maybe t74-t79 can be played Tuesday or Wednesday evening, if necessary.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[bcool]

Here is the test game updated to T70. I tried to simulate the war but failed (I'm not very familiar with AI unit scripts )

The hammers and food should be accurate (as well as unit placement and fortification) (we might have to give ourselves a bit more gold and research is off by a bit)

I uploaded the end of T68 and end of T67 as well if someone wants to try and simulate the war better.