Just had another thought, we could use the spy to sabotage his Horses the turn or 2 before the invasion!!
edit: yes, those Pikes are quite reassuring.
edit: yes, those Pikes are quite reassuring.
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SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Trystero
Deity
Actually, Brennus can now research Feudalism, it will take quite some time for him to research it, but he does have 637 EP's on us.
So, maybe it would be safer to NOT trade for Feudalism, until after the war is rolling.
edit: I have edited all of the above points into the plan.
I still have us selling Compass to Hammy for 50g, what does everyone think of that?
So, maybe it would be safer to NOT trade for Feudalism, until after the war is rolling.
edit: I have edited all of the above points into the plan.
I still have us selling Compass to Hammy for 50g, what does everyone think of that?
SteelHorse
Deity
Good ideas, pillage horse, send a pike to Bib.
I think movement will still be slow for our troops because culture for tiles will still likely be Brens until cities come out of revolt.
I would hold off on Compass sale.
Green from me.
Good luck.
I think movement will still be slow for our troops because culture for tiles will still likely be Brens until cities come out of revolt.
I would hold off on Compass sale.
Green from me.
Good luck.
Vienne is a strong city and I'm sure it covers a lot of culture which is why. Perhaps you could calculate how long it would take from when Bibicarte is taken to when Vienne is taken if going by Galleon, and compare with without galleon. If so, the units could meet up at Vienne and continue forwards/backwards. Since we are expecting to fight Brennus's stack, it is of utmost importance we get that super medic as he loves to attack even though his combined stack strength may be weaker.
As for Theology, I think it's because now that it is discovered, it's a low priority for most AI (except possibly Saladin) and if we delay them from discovering it, they are more likely to delay Paper and hence Lib. It's actually possible for an AI to get to Rifling and stuff without even teching education by the way so we can try to keep them off that path by gifting them certain techs.
I will vote FOR giving Compass and trying to get them to go down the Astro line.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Great conversation, I've only been able to skim it. I'm in meetings at work pretty much all day, won't be able to comment substantively until after 4pm Pacific Standard Time (GMT -8). Keep the suggestions and ideas flowing!
There will be a clear road to Bibracte, I promise. The red lines are the definite cultural borders of Camulodonum & Durocotorum, and the probable borders of Vienne & Durnovaria (both 3 tile radius). A city would need 500 culture to have more than 3 tiles, we only have 2 cities that have this, Paris & GP Farm and they both have wonders. Vienne has none.
The yellow hatched area is the likely area that will not be in his cultural borders once Tolosa & Bibracte are taken. The blue line is the road in.
@ Vienne
We will probably attack this city after the Bibracte units have healed and the reinforcement trebs have arrived.
-Bibracte on t159
-Tolosa on t160
-Treb reinforcements arrive in Bibracte t162 with movement still left (as long as we don't move them on t160 until after taking Tolosa)
-Some Tolosa reinforcements (melee) arrive in Bibratce t162
-Some Tolosa (siege) go and help the (hopefully alive and well) Vermalion maces at Camulodonum t162
-Land force (~10 units) leaves Bibracte t162 for Vienne
-Attack Vienne t164 probably
The galleon choice would have 3 units attacking Vienne t162. That and the fact that Brennus might send his stack means I lean towards not having an east coast galleon.
Brennus main stack arrives at Bibracte t165-167 to strike down upon us with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.
edit: I vote for selling Compass as well, we want them to catch up a little, but maybe we should do this later, once the war is rolling.
edit2: and selling aesthetics to Qin us a little gold but much more importantly, it gets Qin into Beauro, so he will start really liking us. We might even get him to friendly before we need Philo from him (he is already pleased). Sorry, made a mistake here
They are definitely not going to meet Brennus, and they definitely won't meet Ramesses before we DoW him, and probably not at all.
The yellow hatched area is the likely area that will not be in his cultural borders once Tolosa & Bibracte are taken. The blue line is the road in.
Spoiler :
@ Vienne
We will probably attack this city after the Bibracte units have healed and the reinforcement trebs have arrived.
-Bibracte on t159
-Tolosa on t160
-Treb reinforcements arrive in Bibracte t162 with movement still left (as long as we don't move them on t160 until after taking Tolosa)
-Some Tolosa reinforcements (melee) arrive in Bibratce t162
-Some Tolosa (siege) go and help the (hopefully alive and well) Vermalion maces at Camulodonum t162
-Land force (~10 units) leaves Bibracte t162 for Vienne
-Attack Vienne t164 probably
The galleon choice would have 3 units attacking Vienne t162. That and the fact that Brennus might send his stack means I lean towards not having an east coast galleon.
Brennus main stack arrives at Bibracte t165-167 to strike down upon us with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.
edit: I vote for selling Compass as well, we want them to catch up a little, but maybe we should do this later, once the war is rolling.
edit2: and selling aesthetics to Qin us a little gold but much more importantly, it gets Qin into Beauro, so he will start really liking us. We might even get him to friendly before we need Philo from him (he is already pleased). Sorry, made a mistake here
They are definitely not going to meet Brennus, and they definitely won't meet Ramesses before we DoW him, and probably not at all.
Also, once we have paper, we could/should reduce our tech rate a little, as the next GP is due 4 turns later. If we keep going at 50% on Education, we will waste some of the bulb beakers (assuming it is a GS and that we use it for bulbing)
Education will be completed on ~t158 with a bulb, or ~t163 without one.
So, it depends on how many more rounds of reinforcements we want to pump out, the last current batched will be whipped on t158.
We could either:
- start Universities on t159 (requires a bulb).
- have 1-2 more rounds of troops and start Uni's on t163 (doesn't require a bulb).
We should have stone by about t170, so this might favour not bulbing Edu.
If we get a GE (15%), save it for a marble wonder Sistines/Taj.
If we get a GM (10%), save it fro Sushi
If we get a GA (5%), save it for culture bombing.
edit: and I am actually GMT +10, got the sign wrong before. For the mathematically challenged, that is the same as GMT -14 + 1 day.
Education will be completed on ~t158 with a bulb, or ~t163 without one.
So, it depends on how many more rounds of reinforcements we want to pump out, the last current batched will be whipped on t158.
We could either:
- start Universities on t159 (requires a bulb).
- have 1-2 more rounds of troops and start Uni's on t163 (doesn't require a bulb).
We should have stone by about t170, so this might favour not bulbing Edu.
If we get a GE (15%), save it for a marble wonder Sistines/Taj.
If we get a GM (10%), save it fro Sushi
If we get a GA (5%), save it for culture bombing.
edit: and I am actually GMT +10, got the sign wrong before. For the mathematically challenged, that is the same as GMT -14 + 1 day.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Can you explain this?
Could we keep research at 50% and just research something else on those turns?
I favor building the universities (and salons in key cities) ASAP so would rather not continue building troops.
If we manually research Edu, it will come in ~t163. Stone won't be available until ~t170, so we won't get the +100% bonus for Oxford until then.
So, this means we can put off whipping the universities everywhere by a few more turns in order to build a few more troops. We will need a few more troops in order to finish Brennus & Ramesses off.
But you are right, bulbing Edu and researching PP manually does give us more flexibility. We can start universities on t159 in some key cities.
As soon as Edu is done, we start whipping uni's. They won't be done super quick; will probably take more than 9 turns so by the time we get stone (Uni and then Oxford in Commerce will be a nightmare 
), we should be ready to build Oxford. Have you taken into account turns of revolt as well Neil? Bear in mind, Brennus may whip the cities a bit and smaller cities revolt for fewer turns so we might get stone faster than expected.
I think we should try to calculate at what point building Ox in commerce will offset building it in Paris. Could be done by a couple of not so simple calculations
), we should be ready to build Oxford. Have you taken into account turns of revolt as well Neil? Bear in mind, Brennus may whip the cities a bit and smaller cities revolt for fewer turns so we might get stone faster than expected.I think we should try to calculate at what point building Ox in commerce will offset building it in Paris.
Could be done by a couple of not so simple calculations
I haven't got us revolting just yet, but you are right, we will want to go to caste in the not too distant future. Probably soon after the last Uni is whipped.
edit: Oh, I just realised you meant city revolt, how dumb am I?
I have guessed 6 turns revolt for Vienne. At least the stone is in its immediate radius and won't be affected by Gergovia
edit: Oh, I just realised you meant city revolt, how dumb am I?
I have guessed 6 turns revolt for Vienne. At least the stone is in its immediate radius and won't be affected by Gergovia
Oxford:
- with IND +50%
- with forge +25%
- with OR +25%
- with stone +100%
- with beauro +50%
Assuming Paris works its 2 mines, and 1 more plains tile (needs to be cottaged), it will have 10 base hammers. It gets +250%, to make 35 hpt.
Assuming Commerce works all its plains cottages, and 2 PH mines (1 needs to be mined), it will have 11 base hammers. It gets +200%, to make 33 hpt.
Paris still gets a little more raw commerce than Commerce does, and most of its cottages are still hamlets. The TR's as well are only going to get better once Paris grows past 10 (and the destination grow past 10 as well).... and of course it is the current Cap, so it gets 50% raw commerce bonus.
Commerce though could take 2 cottages from Paris, and then it would overtake Paris for raw commerce.
I would build Oxford in Paris, once its cottages mature, it will outgun Commerce. With Sushi, it could cottage every plains tile.
- with IND +50%
- with forge +25%
- with OR +25%
- with stone +100%
- with beauro +50%
Assuming Paris works its 2 mines, and 1 more plains tile (needs to be cottaged), it will have 10 base hammers. It gets +250%, to make 35 hpt.
Assuming Commerce works all its plains cottages, and 2 PH mines (1 needs to be mined), it will have 11 base hammers. It gets +200%, to make 33 hpt.
Paris still gets a little more raw commerce than Commerce does, and most of its cottages are still hamlets. The TR's as well are only going to get better once Paris grows past 10 (and the destination grow past 10 as well).... and of course it is the current Cap, so it gets 50% raw commerce bonus.
Commerce though could take 2 cottages from Paris, and then it would overtake Paris for raw commerce.
I would build Oxford in Paris, once its cottages mature, it will outgun Commerce. With Sushi, it could cottage every plains tile.
I agree with Oxford in Paris.
Wall Street + Corp HQs can go in Commerce since by then Commerce will have much better hammer output (levee, factory, etc).
The balancing of troop building with universities is a fine line, as always. I think I like the idea of two pop whips of maces/trebs with the overflow going into universities. It will slow down our army build-up and slow down our finish Oxford time. But that's what all good compromises do!
Wall Street + Corp HQs can go in Commerce since by then Commerce will have much better hammer output (levee, factory, etc).
The balancing of troop building with universities is a fine line, as always. I think I like the idea of two pop whips of maces/trebs with the overflow going into universities. It will slow down our army build-up and slow down our finish Oxford time. But that's what all good compromises do!
Good compromise I think!
Disagree about Wall St and Corp HQ's, I am leaning towards Bibracte (currently gets21 or 22 27 gpt from Shrine) or Memphis (if it gets 2 shrines, as we could spread Confused & Christianity everywhere)
Disagree about Wall St and Corp HQ's, I am leaning towards Bibracte (currently gets
I completely forgot we were capturing cities. I think Bibicarte can actually be a great production center as well. That's the shame of all the best cities They could be anything you want them to!
I'll try to work out at which point Oxford in Commerce will offset Oxford in Paris.
But for that, we need an estimated finish date first! Once I have that, I can calculate everything else (I think)
They could be anything you want them to!I'll try to work out at which point Oxford in Commerce will offset Oxford in Paris.
But for that, we need an estimated finish date first! Once I have that, I can calculate everything else (I think)
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
It's a great dilemma to have, deciding between two great commerce cities.
Yes indeed! Good problem to have.
At least this is something that won't effect the next 5 turns.
Concerning a finish date, I am going to go with 1800ad as a good starting point.
Good news is that we have 2 shrines on our continent already. Pray for Ramesses to get another Prophet before we DoW him.
After that, only issue will be 2 Legendary cities, but with 19 visible sushi resoucres on our continent or islands, I can't see that being a problem.
edit: I have kept updating the plan on the previous page factoring in all comments and tweaks. It's GREEN from me.
At least this is something that won't effect the next 5 turns.
Concerning a finish date, I am going to go with 1800ad as a good starting point.
Good news is that we have 2 shrines on our continent already. Pray for Ramesses to get another Prophet before we DoW him.
After that, only issue will be 2 Legendary cities, but with 19 visible sushi resoucres on our continent or islands, I can't see that being a problem.
edit: I have kept updating the plan on the previous page factoring in all comments and tweaks. It's GREEN from me.
I think Bibicarte can actually be a great production center as well. That's the shame of all the best cities
Yes, Bibracte will be an amazing city, it already has several mature cottages, great food sources and so many river tiles that a levee will make it awesome!
