Oh yes, didn't notice that. 
Move along, nothing to see here......
Move along, nothing to see here......
SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
STW is in Kakumeikas I bet
I've seen some of his really good ideas on espionage. Very powerful.But no, try it out in the test game
Give Brennus IW, worldbuild a spy or two into Brennus's capital, make sure you are roaded to him via wb of course. Fortify for five turns and then see how many EP it will cost. The total cost is 238 EP!Assuming our EP cost (113%) stays the same and we get the same bonuses, stealing IW from Brennus in the real game should only cost us roughly 250 EP.
Don't worry about it
We all make silly mistakes (like I thought that city doesn't need to go past size 3 :$ )
Well that is a large relief, we already have the EP's we need to steal it.
Yeah, that's why I think it's feasible to steal even another tech 
What normally stops people from stealing is the hassle of having to build a spy, but since we're doing that, we can steal another tech anyway. One or two turns on the research slider won't get us both hunting and poly, but one turn can easily get us both hunting (low priority) and polytheism (high priority).
What normally stops people from stealing is the hassle of having to build a spy, but since we're doing that, we can steal another tech anyway. One or two turns on the research slider won't get us both hunting and poly, but one turn can easily get us both hunting (low priority) and polytheism (high priority).
So, do you think we should do Alpha after Writing?
Research Aesthetics while we build a spy, steal Poly then research Lit.
Ideal world would have Ramesses tech Alpha and swap it (and everything else as well) for MC.
Research Aesthetics while we build a spy, steal Poly then research Lit.
Ideal world would have Ramesses tech Alpha and swap it (and everything else as well) for MC.
We could tech Alpha and hope for Ramesses to research it. We then stop our research on it, switch over to Aesthetics and trade something trash for it. Relying on Ramesses to do it for us is a big gamble, and even on some deity games with only 2 on the continent, I've had trouble with AI's researching Alpha.
Also, does a scientist bulb machinery? Does machinery come along the path to engineering? If so, we could do something like a treb war as well to take our continent. Can someone also make sure of the tech path to bulb astro? I did a rough check and it looked like we would need CoL but someone should double check.
Also, does a scientist bulb machinery? Does machinery come along the path to engineering? If so, we could do something like a treb war as well to take our continent. Can someone also make sure of the tech path to bulb astro? I did a rough check and it looked like we would need CoL but someone should double check.
Pre-Play Plan
I'm planning to play about a dozen turns. There doesn't seem to be a super natural stopping point coming up. But maybe one will appear as I work on this PPP.
1. Technologies
Option 1. Writing -> Aesthetics -> Poly -> Literature
This option gets us to the Great Library the fastest. Notably missing is Alphabet. Perhaps we can try and trade for it or perhaps we get to it later. Hard to know when Ramesses is going to get Alphabet, so if we go this way we may end up being a little annoyed. On the other hand, this tech path would allow us to get, with some degree of confidence, the Parthenon and the Great Library (along with the National Epic and hopefully, soon, the Heroic Epic).
Option 2. Writing -> Alphabet
This option is good primarily since it will allow us to build spies and steal IW sooner rather than later. We really do need IW soon if we want to keep expanding, since it looks like all of the southern sites are going to need to be cleared of jungle.
1. Which tech path should we follow?
2. Do you have any other ideas for the next dozen or so turns?
2. Dealing With AIs
I'm not going to open borders with Ramesses since he's the worst enemy of Brennus and we're going to try and buddy up with him, at least for the time being. Primarily, we want trade routes with him, and Buddhism would be lovely.
I'm not predicting any other problems in my turnset. Should we meet another AI, I may stop and consult. Although, I'm thinking my turnset should be pretty independent of the other AI and what they're doing.
3a. City Placements
We have TGL. As I've said before I think it's a travesty not to spam coastal cities like there's no tomorrow. Granted, there's a ton of stuff we have to do (protection, more workers, chariot army, wonders). But we can't put off settling! As a reminder, here's the nearby territory.
A pretty easy city to settle in terms of other stuff we need (barb protection, galleys) is the city 4N of GP farm. It would be able to take either the deer or the fish in the short term and work the horses. In the long term, it won't be a stellar city. I feel like we should probably send a chariot up to explore the northern area since there might be one or two good food resources up there we could settle.
A second possibility is over to the western island where the sheep are. To get there we will need a galley and a settler. Along with barb protection and a worker (or two) that could be sent to work exclusively on that island. This is certainly a more expensive city to get than a northern tundra one. But it's trade routes we will be much better and the city will probably be much better.
A third option is a mainland one to work the wheat. But I'm leaning towards avoiding mainland cities for the time being. Also, none of the cities we see are super. So it might be wise to explore a little more and build some more workers while we wait.
3. Should I go explore the north or is it not worth a unit?
4. Should we start building a galley to settle the sheep island?
5. Any general comments on where and when to settle cities 6 and 7?
3b. City Placements
Paris is looking pretty good. It's going to want a Forge and a Library sooner rather than later. And the empire could use another worker. I'm inclined to finish the chariot and then 2-pop whip a worker with max overflow into a forge and then slow build the forge while re-growing and building some chariots. Does that sound good with everybody? The library can come soon after. Paris is just kind of a lame city, so I'm not totally sure what to do with it. It doesn't really have enough food to be a GP farm and doesn't really have enough hammers to be a production city. Fingers crossed it has iron, but if not I propose we cottage it up and start working cottages in it. It doesn't have to be a great science city, but it can be decent. It's got some green tiles and some food to spare. Thoughts?
GP farm pretty obviously needs a library. So it can live up to its name. I'll finish the granary while researching Writing. They should time up pretty nicely. Then I'll 2-pop whip in a library and grow while working a forge. We'll want the forge to help build the Glib I think. And to eventually run an engineer. GP farm needs a camp, but other than that, I don't think it needs any more worker turns. So since we don't have hunting yet, we can leave it be for now.
Production is looking fantastic. We'll finish the lighthouse and then slow build a forge while whipping a galley, probably overflowing into another chariot. As I said, I'll do micro later. This city also needs to get a camp on the deer. I think that's the only improvement it needs, though, other than cottages, see next question.
6. Are we going to have this city work the tiles it's currently working, or are we going to have it work cottages that will eventually be taken by super science? How are we going to manage that?
Super science is hurting for all sorts of stuff. I'm planning on keeping that warrior there since this city should start growing pretty quickly. I may be able to bring out that warrior for exploration, I'll do some testing when I micro. The city needs a granary ASAP and then a Library as soon after. It doesn't have to worry about building troops or workers/settlers.
7. Did we reach a consensus on if we were cottaging all tiles right off the bat or putting down farms first to cottage over later?
Not a super city just yet, but we knew that. I think for the time being, I'll get a mine on the GL hill as soon as reasonable and then another mine on the other hill. That will have this city be pretty useful until IW comes along (which could be soon according to Revent and Neil's recent work). Lyons can finish the granary and then maybe slow build some units depending on what we need. We need a name for this city, too, no?
4. General Micro
I like the contradiction of general with micro, but it works in this case. I'll work on the spreadsheet later. But for now the general micro is this. Cottages in Paris and Super Science. GL hill mines in Lyons. A road between us and Brennus. Can we have the road start at Lyons and go to Brennus? That will connect Brennus to our trade network, yeah?
Woody that's currently fogbusting will go exploring. The warrior that's just about to be finished in Super Science can take woody's old post (or rather the forested hill 1W of woody). The chariot that's coming out of Paris can accompany the workers that will build the highway. We need a unit to explore north and another unit or two for domestic defense. Preferable yet another unit could explore south/west with woody. I'll check in the micro how many units we can fit in.
City builds are discussed in the previous section. We'll wait to discuss wonders when we decide on a tech path. But I don't think I'll be building any wonders this turnset unless we want to fail gold the Pyramids. But 1) we squelched that last turn and 2) we have enough other stuff to do. The Colossus and Moai can wait as we're not yet working many water tiles.
The workboats will continue to try and get a feel for the shape of the continent.
8. Should the workboat at the western sheep island keep along the coastline of the continent or explore the island (assuming it is an island)?
5. Civics and Religion
We really want Buddhism.
9. If we get it, should I revolt right away?
I don't forsee any other civic switching going on in the game. If I get gifted a city with the Pyramids I'll stop and we can discuss what to do.
So team. I'll get working on the micro. But first let's hear your thoughts on the PPP.
I'm planning to play about a dozen turns. There doesn't seem to be a super natural stopping point coming up. But maybe one will appear as I work on this PPP.
1. Technologies
Option 1. Writing -> Aesthetics -> Poly -> Literature
This option gets us to the Great Library the fastest. Notably missing is Alphabet. Perhaps we can try and trade for it or perhaps we get to it later. Hard to know when Ramesses is going to get Alphabet, so if we go this way we may end up being a little annoyed. On the other hand, this tech path would allow us to get, with some degree of confidence, the Parthenon and the Great Library (along with the National Epic and hopefully, soon, the Heroic Epic).
Option 2. Writing -> Alphabet
This option is good primarily since it will allow us to build spies and steal IW sooner rather than later. We really do need IW soon if we want to keep expanding, since it looks like all of the southern sites are going to need to be cleared of jungle.
1. Which tech path should we follow?
2. Do you have any other ideas for the next dozen or so turns?
2. Dealing With AIs
I'm not going to open borders with Ramesses since he's the worst enemy of Brennus and we're going to try and buddy up with him, at least for the time being. Primarily, we want trade routes with him, and Buddhism would be lovely.
I'm not predicting any other problems in my turnset. Should we meet another AI, I may stop and consult. Although, I'm thinking my turnset should be pretty independent of the other AI and what they're doing.
3a. City Placements
We have TGL. As I've said before I think it's a travesty not to spam coastal cities like there's no tomorrow. Granted, there's a ton of stuff we have to do (protection, more workers, chariot army, wonders). But we can't put off settling! As a reminder, here's the nearby territory.
Spoiler :
A pretty easy city to settle in terms of other stuff we need (barb protection, galleys) is the city 4N of GP farm. It would be able to take either the deer or the fish in the short term and work the horses. In the long term, it won't be a stellar city. I feel like we should probably send a chariot up to explore the northern area since there might be one or two good food resources up there we could settle.
A second possibility is over to the western island where the sheep are. To get there we will need a galley and a settler. Along with barb protection and a worker (or two) that could be sent to work exclusively on that island. This is certainly a more expensive city to get than a northern tundra one. But it's trade routes we will be much better and the city will probably be much better.
A third option is a mainland one to work the wheat. But I'm leaning towards avoiding mainland cities for the time being. Also, none of the cities we see are super. So it might be wise to explore a little more and build some more workers while we wait.
3. Should I go explore the north or is it not worth a unit?
4. Should we start building a galley to settle the sheep island?
5. Any general comments on where and when to settle cities 6 and 7?
3b. City Placements
Spoiler :
Paris is looking pretty good. It's going to want a Forge and a Library sooner rather than later. And the empire could use another worker. I'm inclined to finish the chariot and then 2-pop whip a worker with max overflow into a forge and then slow build the forge while re-growing and building some chariots. Does that sound good with everybody? The library can come soon after. Paris is just kind of a lame city, so I'm not totally sure what to do with it. It doesn't really have enough food to be a GP farm and doesn't really have enough hammers to be a production city. Fingers crossed it has iron, but if not I propose we cottage it up and start working cottages in it. It doesn't have to be a great science city, but it can be decent. It's got some green tiles and some food to spare. Thoughts?
Spoiler :
GP farm pretty obviously needs a library. So it can live up to its name. I'll finish the granary while researching Writing. They should time up pretty nicely. Then I'll 2-pop whip in a library and grow while working a forge. We'll want the forge to help build the Glib I think. And to eventually run an engineer. GP farm needs a camp, but other than that, I don't think it needs any more worker turns. So since we don't have hunting yet, we can leave it be for now.
Spoiler :
Production is looking fantastic. We'll finish the lighthouse and then slow build a forge while whipping a galley, probably overflowing into another chariot. As I said, I'll do micro later. This city also needs to get a camp on the deer. I think that's the only improvement it needs, though, other than cottages, see next question.
6. Are we going to have this city work the tiles it's currently working, or are we going to have it work cottages that will eventually be taken by super science? How are we going to manage that?
Spoiler :
Super science is hurting for all sorts of stuff. I'm planning on keeping that warrior there since this city should start growing pretty quickly. I may be able to bring out that warrior for exploration, I'll do some testing when I micro. The city needs a granary ASAP and then a Library as soon after. It doesn't have to worry about building troops or workers/settlers.
7. Did we reach a consensus on if we were cottaging all tiles right off the bat or putting down farms first to cottage over later?
Spoiler :
Not a super city just yet, but we knew that. I think for the time being, I'll get a mine on the GL hill as soon as reasonable and then another mine on the other hill. That will have this city be pretty useful until IW comes along (which could be soon according to Revent and Neil's recent work). Lyons can finish the granary and then maybe slow build some units depending on what we need. We need a name for this city, too, no?
4. General Micro
I like the contradiction of general with micro, but it works in this case. I'll work on the spreadsheet later. But for now the general micro is this. Cottages in Paris and Super Science. GL hill mines in Lyons. A road between us and Brennus. Can we have the road start at Lyons and go to Brennus? That will connect Brennus to our trade network, yeah?
Woody that's currently fogbusting will go exploring. The warrior that's just about to be finished in Super Science can take woody's old post (or rather the forested hill 1W of woody). The chariot that's coming out of Paris can accompany the workers that will build the highway. We need a unit to explore north and another unit or two for domestic defense. Preferable yet another unit could explore south/west with woody. I'll check in the micro how many units we can fit in.
City builds are discussed in the previous section. We'll wait to discuss wonders when we decide on a tech path. But I don't think I'll be building any wonders this turnset unless we want to fail gold the Pyramids. But 1) we squelched that last turn and 2) we have enough other stuff to do. The Colossus and Moai can wait as we're not yet working many water tiles.
The workboats will continue to try and get a feel for the shape of the continent.
8. Should the workboat at the western sheep island keep along the coastline of the continent or explore the island (assuming it is an island)?
5. Civics and Religion
We really want Buddhism.
9. If we get it, should I revolt right away?
I don't forsee any other civic switching going on in the game. If I get gifted a city with the Pyramids I'll stop and we can discuss what to do.
So team. I'll get working on the micro. But first let's hear your thoughts on the PPP.
We aren't relying on Ramesses researching Alpha, but it would sure be nice. He already has Writing, so its possible.
Astro bulb (with GS from GLib) - requires:
Aesthetics, Maths, Calendar, IW, Compass, Machinery, Optics, and Alpha. (it misread the bulb preference before).
We don't need CoL for Astro. CoL also unlocks Philo, so that the GS bulb would get us Philo instead of Astro.
Machinery can be bulbed by a GS, but it is well down the bulb order, after Compass, Optics, Alpha, Maths, Aesthetics, Calendar,
Oh okay. Well, I'm gonna do some calculations regarding Astro or CoL because I'm not fully satisfied with Astro first. Maybe it's because I probably undervalue trade routes I guess. Is it possible to 'trick' an AI into researching something? For example, gifting certain techs to an AI to make them more likely to go down one path of the tech tree and make them build wonders? At the same time, it does give us access to Engineering which is awesome for medieval wars which makes it a big plus for me in my books because Machinery is a preq. Tough call.
Very nice starting PPP post.
The build plans for the cities seem to be heavily focused on buildings, and not much mention of units.
1. After much convincing, I'm now leaning towards option 2, Writing->Alpha. We need to get IW asap, as it means there is one less condition to worry about, and it instantly makes Clams a fantastic city, and gives us Gems sooner.
2. No other tech ideas from me
3. Wouldn't bother exploring north before the Chariot pops out.
4. Hell yes, we want a galley now.
5. Offshore, and offshore. 4 times +2 trade routes for each, plus 2 +2 trade route for each of our other cities. Even if they are 1 tile super crap islands, we must do this.
6. Production can share cottages if it has no other tiles to work, but it has 7 tiles to work first. Fish, Sheep, Horses, 3 * hills and eventually Deer. Commerce city should take control of the FP currently being cottaged.
7. Don't know if there was consensus, but I would think nearly every single FP will be cottaged. 1 farm might be a good idea, to allow us to do some whipping here.
8. Workboat to explore the 'island' and prove if it is an island.
9. Revolt straight away? Not sure.
My personal build preferences, to get galley, worker, settlers and chariots
Paris - Finish Chariot, Settler, Chariots... then forge
No need for forges yet, I would prefer to grab the coastal barb city with Pigs.
GP Farm - agree 100%, Finish Granary, Library (whip)
Production - Finish LH, Worker (whip), Galley, Settler, then forge...
It will grow to pop 4 in 3 turns, same turn it finishes LH. It will have another 5 turns of unhappiness. When cities build Workers/Settlers, the first unhappy face does not eat food.
Commerce - Granary & Lib
Clams - Switch to warrior, then finish Granary (whip)
The build plans for the cities seem to be heavily focused on buildings, and not much mention of units.
1. After much convincing, I'm now leaning towards option 2, Writing->Alpha. We need to get IW asap, as it means there is one less condition to worry about, and it instantly makes Clams a fantastic city, and gives us Gems sooner.
2. No other tech ideas from me
3. Wouldn't bother exploring north before the Chariot pops out.
4. Hell yes, we want a galley now.
5. Offshore, and offshore. 4 times +2 trade routes for each, plus 2 +2 trade route for each of our other cities. Even if they are 1 tile super crap islands, we must do this.
6. Production can share cottages if it has no other tiles to work, but it has 7 tiles to work first. Fish, Sheep, Horses, 3 * hills and eventually Deer. Commerce city should take control of the FP currently being cottaged.
7. Don't know if there was consensus, but I would think nearly every single FP will be cottaged. 1 farm might be a good idea, to allow us to do some whipping here.
8. Workboat to explore the 'island' and prove if it is an island.
9. Revolt straight away? Not sure.
My personal build preferences, to get galley, worker, settlers and chariots
Paris - Finish Chariot, Settler, Chariots... then forge
No need for forges yet, I would prefer to grab the coastal barb city with Pigs.
GP Farm - agree 100%, Finish Granary, Library (whip)
Production - Finish LH, Worker (whip), Galley, Settler, then forge...
It will grow to pop 4 in 3 turns, same turn it finishes LH. It will have another 5 turns of unhappiness. When cities build Workers/Settlers, the first unhappy face does not eat food.
Commerce - Granary & Lib
Clams - Switch to warrior, then finish Granary (whip)
I vote for a possible variant of option 2.
Writing-> Alpha but if Ramesses researches it, we trade for Alpha and go for Lit and steal Poly whilst researching Aesthetics.
Agreed on denying OB with Rams. However, a worker roading to Brennus is a top priority.
Settling is also a priority. We don't have enough cities considering we have TGL. However, I disagree with settling junk on the mainland that can't be liberated in the future and has to borrow resources from our good cities. Scout up north for fur is reasonable. Enough happy resources means we should be able to delay monarchy a bit.
The sheep city may be part of the mainland rather than a separate island as you believe so I'd advice scouting it first
Re settling, you could start building a settler in preparation for jungle chopping. A city COULD share pigs from Lyons if nearby good resources.Cottage 1N2E of Paris. It can work that cottage for commerce. Long term, it can be a sub par commerce city that will do the job but still relatively powerful.
It can work one cottage whilst building a galley for settler transport. Any more I believe will slow down the galley too much. Right now expansion will get us more commerce than a cottage.
No consensus reached as far as I remember. However in test games, the city grew faster than we could work the tiles anyway. For now, we can have it work three or four cottages but as we near monarchy, I guess it is possible for us to farm it.
Road from Lyons to Brennus SHOULD do the job. I will double check in a test run. (Or if you have the test game open, you could just WB a road from it to Brennus
No go for Pyramids, we have too many things to build such as settlers. GP farm could be pumping out a settler at size 3 or 4 at a pretty decent rate
In a circleish pattern I think. (Too vague, sorry
) But it can go around this sheep location and come back to the one tile island if Productions borders havent popped by then.Depends on the game I guess. If it's at the point where Brennus normally starts planning, we should adopt straight away!
But at the same time, there's a 50/50 chance of him asking us to adopt Budhism, he's relatively demanding 
(free diplo, insta pleased I think).VERY detailed PPP. Really impressed
Edit: Just thought I'd add, Brennus gets to WFYABTA limit after JUST 8 techs traded.
Fantastic PPP
generally Agree w neilmesiter and Revent.
When are we going to research Hunting?
Yes, we need to sent a unit exploring and spawnbusting in the north. Waiting for a chariot is good.
generally Agree w neilmesiter and Revent.
When are we going to research Hunting?
Yes, we need to sent a unit exploring and spawnbusting in the north. Waiting for a chariot is good.
Hunting is going to come from trades methinks, no need to research it yet at all. Obviously it means extra food for GP Farm & Production, but they don't need it for quite some time.
Paris is just going to be a good generic city I think. It has great food, from two 6 food tiles (once we irrigate corn). At pop 10 (a long way into the future) it could be working: Fish, Corn, 2 mines and 6 cottages, still having 4 surplus fpt.
At pop 14, it could be stagnant working 10 cottages. It still has great Beauro potential.
Also tempted to not whip Production much at all, it just has so many good tiles.
Paris is just going to be a good generic city I think. It has great food, from two 6 food tiles (once we irrigate corn). At pop 10 (a long way into the future) it could be working: Fish, Corn, 2 mines and 6 cottages, still having 4 surplus fpt.
At pop 14, it could be stagnant working 10 cottages. It still has great Beauro potential.
Also tempted to not whip Production much at all, it just has so many good tiles.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
We also need Writing to sign open borders with Brennus. I vote Writing -> Alphabet. Hope that Ramesses gets Alphabet and we can trade him for both Alphabet and Hunting.
We should be loading settlers on galleys and sending them west to settle islands. Looks to be some good land there, maybe even islands. And, by the way, this argues for taking out the barbarian city sooner rather than later, since it blocks our westward trade routes.
Cottage up Paris and have it work the overlap cottages for Commerce, to make those better/faster. Production, on the other hand, should be working its power tiles, and not cottages (unless there are moments where it has an extra person available to work an extra tile). I prefer cottaging Commerce right way, and not bothering with farms. It will grow faster than our happy cap anyway.
Agree with Neil that we don't need many forges yet - would prefer to have settlers and workers. The only exception might be Production, which can really use it. We don't have gold or silver yet, unfortunately.
Agree the road to Brennus is a major priority, for trade routes and espionage.
If we get Buddhism, stop and consult with the team. Which city gets it, when, etc. all impact the decision to revolt immediately or wait.
We should be loading settlers on galleys and sending them west to settle islands. Looks to be some good land there, maybe even islands. And, by the way, this argues for taking out the barbarian city sooner rather than later, since it blocks our westward trade routes.
Cottage up Paris and have it work the overlap cottages for Commerce, to make those better/faster. Production, on the other hand, should be working its power tiles, and not cottages (unless there are moments where it has an extra person available to work an extra tile). I prefer cottaging Commerce right way, and not bothering with farms. It will grow faster than our happy cap anyway.
Agree with Neil that we don't need many forges yet - would prefer to have settlers and workers. The only exception might be Production, which can really use it. We don't have gold or silver yet, unfortunately.
Agree the road to Brennus is a major priority, for trade routes and espionage.
If we get Buddhism, stop and consult with the team. Which city gets it, when, etc. all impact the decision to revolt immediately or wait.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
People honestly under estimate the power of espionage
The EE is probably the strongest single economic choice in the game. The problem is that it is hell to micromanage consistently, and only high-level AIs have the boni to make it worthwhile.
IIRC r_rolo ran an SG where they had to win by culture without using any of their own cities, i.e. spy bonk culture in foreign cities and then take them over. It worked.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Ben:
1) I go with two, especially after Revent's number crunching. Thats a superlative job in th C&D department btw.
And it is still a quick route towards the GLib.
2) Agree
3) I'd scout South rather than North. There is better land down there, and we have horses. We can send a warrior north later. I like sheep island so far, though I'd like seafood there some more. I think cities 6 and 7 look best going south into the Celtic Jungle, it is good strong and productive land in all ways.
3b) Your plans for cities look good to me. We could turn Paris into a strong production later with watermills, but for now cottages are it's best use.
4) Micro looks good. If we're settling Craggy Island (with the sheep) I think the boat as to explore it better. We don't want a sub-par placement there.
5) Revolting to Buddhism depends. If nothing rushy then go immediately, but if we've a wonder, or trying to race a settler then no.
1) I go with two, especially after Revent's number crunching. Thats a superlative job in th C&D department btw.
And it is still a quick route towards the GLib.
2) Agree
3) I'd scout South rather than North. There is better land down there, and we have horses. We can send a warrior north later. I like sheep island so far, though I'd like seafood there some more. I think cities 6 and 7 look best going south into the Celtic Jungle, it is good strong and productive land in all ways.
3b) Your plans for cities look good to me. We could turn Paris into a strong production later with watermills, but for now cottages are it's best use.
4) Micro looks good. If we're settling Craggy Island (with the sheep) I think the boat as to explore it better. We don't want a sub-par placement there.
5) Revolting to Buddhism depends. If nothing rushy then go immediately, but if we've a wonder, or trying to race a settler then no.
Trystero
Deity
Very nice PPP Benginal.
1. Tech path: I vote for the Revent option 2. Tech Writing for OB, then tech toward Alphabet and switch to Aesthetics for trade if someone else gets Alpha first.
2, AI: get OB with Brennus for religion spread and espionage purposes. Build a road toward Brennus.
3. Explore toward Brennus and look for Ramesses (and anybody else). One we get OB with Brennus, we should scout out his territory.
4. Yes on the galley. We need to settle offshore.
5. Settle coastal cities toward the sheep.
6. I agree with the consensus to cottage Paris and Commerce. Get mines (and a forge) up in production. I like neilmeister's build preferences. Rename Lyons as Clams City.
7. Cottage the FP tiles in commerce.
8. The WB should explore the sheep island area to see if it is really an island.
9. Buddhism spreading to us should trigger a pause condition to decide how to proceed.
1. Tech path: I vote for the Revent option 2. Tech Writing for OB, then tech toward Alphabet and switch to Aesthetics for trade if someone else gets Alpha first.
2, AI: get OB with Brennus for religion spread and espionage purposes. Build a road toward Brennus.
3. Explore toward Brennus and look for Ramesses (and anybody else). One we get OB with Brennus, we should scout out his territory.
4. Yes on the galley. We need to settle offshore.
5. Settle coastal cities toward the sheep.
6. I agree with the consensus to cottage Paris and Commerce. Get mines (and a forge) up in production. I like neilmeister's build preferences. Rename Lyons as Clams City.
7. Cottage the FP tiles in commerce.
8. The WB should explore the sheep island area to see if it is really an island.
9. Buddhism spreading to us should trigger a pause condition to decide how to proceed.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I added a tab on the spreadsheet for your turnset, Benginal, whenever you want to start noodling with it. PM me if you need access to the spreadsheet.
How is it difficult to micro manage?
I would've thought that all you had to do was keep a whole bunch of spies in each AI's city and then every turn, steal a tech and keep on sending spies over.
You may maintain tech parity, but to be honest, EP economy leads itself to lots of spies being built. AI going for culture? No problem, every turn, destroy a cathedral and cause a revolt and have them switch out of FS. AI going for space? No problem, sabotage their production for spaceship parts.
You don't even NEED tech trades for this to work. However, I think it's best left to deity where the AI actually have enough bonuses for us to take advantage of
Only the build for Paris & Production need to be determined, I think we have broad consensus on the others.
Paris - After getting a settler out next (finishes about the same turn as galley), keep building chariots until we take the barb city, presumably needing 5.
Finish Chariot, settler, chariots(probably 4)
Production - The more I play with the micro, I don't really see the need for the 5th worker yet (apart for roading to Brennus). We only have 2 cities not working power tiles, both GP Farm and Production have several unworked improved tiles. So, I wish to revise my preferred build order to:
Finish LH, Galley, Settler, Forge
GP Farm can perhaps build a worker next (once it finishes the Granary) and whip it into the Library.
Worker 1: Help worker 4 finish Paris cottage(2t), cottage FP's...
Worker 2: Finish cottage(4t), chop galley and/or settler in Production, go with settler
Worker 3: Move to southern Clams GH (3t), mine(4t), move to other GH & mine(5t), road to Brennus
Worker 4: Move 2W cottage(2t), move to Commerce PH & mine(5t), cottage FP's...
Worker 5: To be built, road to Brennus?
Paris - After getting a settler out next (finishes about the same turn as galley), keep building chariots until we take the barb city, presumably needing 5.
Finish Chariot, settler, chariots(probably 4)
Production - The more I play with the micro, I don't really see the need for the 5th worker yet (apart for roading to Brennus). We only have 2 cities not working power tiles, both GP Farm and Production have several unworked improved tiles. So, I wish to revise my preferred build order to:
Finish LH, Galley, Settler, Forge
GP Farm can perhaps build a worker next (once it finishes the Granary) and whip it into the Library.
Worker 1: Help worker 4 finish Paris cottage(2t), cottage FP's...
Worker 2: Finish cottage(4t), chop galley and/or settler in Production, go with settler
Worker 3: Move to southern Clams GH (3t), mine(4t), move to other GH & mine(5t), road to Brennus
Worker 4: Move 2W cottage(2t), move to Commerce PH & mine(5t), cottage FP's...
Worker 5: To be built, road to Brennus?
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