test game T40 (I didn't move GK's cities down 1 tile, but gold, techs, land all look pretty good.)
(attached save removed because there's a new T42 save.)
(attached save removed because there's a new T42 save.)
SGOTM 18 - Kakumeika
- Thread starter AlanH
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WastinTime, please go ahead and play 1-2 more turns. I will take the game when you are ready for a hand off. I approve your plan for the next 1-2 turns.
Sun Tzu Wu
Sun Tzu Wu
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I agree to WastinTime's plan above to play an additional two turns as detailed above. I will take the next turn set when he is done.
Sun Tzu Wu
Acknowledged. I'll wait a bit more for final comments, but definitely play later today. Should be uneventful. We will need to select a new build in Captialist T42 anyway. It will be a good stopping point.
bcool
Deity
I'm fine with finishing the archer in Shark and the 2 turns WastinTime has planned.
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Ok. WastinTime has completed his final 2t.
I have the save now. Please respond with your suggestions now. I'm not sure I'll much to post about my turn set yet this evening. I'll probably have something put together by late Friday evening.
Thanks for updating the test game WastinTime. It's a very useful tool for turn set planning.
Sun Tzu Wu
I have the save now. Please respond with your suggestions now. I'm not sure I'll much to post about my turn set yet this evening. I'll probably have something put together by late Friday evening.
Thanks for updating the test game WastinTime. It's a very useful tool for turn set planning.
Sun Tzu Wu
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Did anyone notice the single railroad on the PH N and W of two Fur plots SSE of Karakorum? Not sure of its significance, if any.
Sun Tzu Wu
Sun Tzu Wu
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This is essentially the same Grand Strategy that WastinTime wrote a while back, though updated for t42 and with some Abbreviations expanded.
*Draft* Grand Strategy
Mission summary: Recapture SP, make it legendary with espionage, raze Dr. Evil's Lair w/Paratroopers, Achieve Diplo victory with votes from Mansa and Gandhi (Dr. Evil as opponent)
General:
- Maintain relationship with Mansa and Gandhi. Give in to Mansa demands. Probably also give in to Gandhi for +diplo, but recall Gandhi doesn't give -1 diplo for some things.
Work on building a shared religion w/Mansa + Gandhi.
- Don't tech Liberalism cause then we have to have Free Religion
- Since Paratroopers require Railroad and Assembly Line, plan for a GE for Mining Inc and get this corp up as fast as possible.
- Empire/War plan: Capture cities fast. Fast does not imply: early. We don't need to start war ASAP, but once we do, make it quick. Take all GK, Joao, and Goldmember cities + Swinger's Pad and raze Dr. Evil's Lair. Take a lot of Dr. Evil's cities too, but eventually plan to gift him enough population to be our opponent for Diplo Victory. Try to share wars with M & G.
Short term goals (in order):
1) Continue researching Currency.
2) Expand peacefully at first since no neighbors are close (possible exception a short worker stealing war w/ GK)
3) Get at least currency before considering World War I.
4) Beeline Civil Service (using Currency, Aesthetics, Literature to get free CoL, Mathematics, IW, etc)
5) World War I: Get Mansa and Gandhi to join in war w/ GK. DO NOT kill GK scouts because we will try to keep GK alive with "Require Complete Kills". The goal being +Shared War diplo. Take all GK cities. Preference for a fast/mounted attack.
6*) Start capturing Goldmember/Dr. Evil cities that are close to our empire (*on-going goal).
7) Beeline Education/Oxford (plan ahead for a GS bulb)
8) World War II: Joao. Again, get M + G to join war and avoid "-Declared on our friend". Take all Joao cities.
9) Recapture Swinger's Pad (possibly do this before WWII, but it's probably not desirable)
10) Beeline Railroad (Mining Inc.)/Assembly Line for eventual Facism (Paratroopers)
11) Only after Mining, Inc., build spies and get them in Swinger's Pad. Move the Palace next to Swinger's Pad for reduced cost of Espionage missions.
12) Beeline Mass Media, start The United Nations (no need to rush with GE, gold, etc.)
13) Beeline Fascism (Paratroopers): Raze Dr. Evil's Lair
14) Run 100% Espionage slider to get Swinger's Pad to legendary with spies
15) Diplo victory with votes from Mansa and Gandhi (Dr. Evil as opponent)
Sun Tzu Wu
*Draft* Grand Strategy
Mission summary: Recapture SP, make it legendary with espionage, raze Dr. Evil's Lair w/Paratroopers, Achieve Diplo victory with votes from Mansa and Gandhi (Dr. Evil as opponent)
General:
- Maintain relationship with Mansa and Gandhi. Give in to Mansa demands. Probably also give in to Gandhi for +diplo, but recall Gandhi doesn't give -1 diplo for some things.
Work on building a shared religion w/Mansa + Gandhi.
- Don't tech Liberalism cause then we have to have Free Religion
- Since Paratroopers require Railroad and Assembly Line, plan for a GE for Mining Inc and get this corp up as fast as possible.
- Empire/War plan: Capture cities fast. Fast does not imply: early. We don't need to start war ASAP, but once we do, make it quick. Take all GK, Joao, and Goldmember cities + Swinger's Pad and raze Dr. Evil's Lair. Take a lot of Dr. Evil's cities too, but eventually plan to gift him enough population to be our opponent for Diplo Victory. Try to share wars with M & G.
Short term goals (in order):
1) Continue researching Currency.
2) Expand peacefully at first since no neighbors are close (possible exception a short worker stealing war w/ GK)
3) Get at least currency before considering World War I.
4) Beeline Civil Service (using Currency, Aesthetics, Literature to get free CoL, Mathematics, IW, etc)
5) World War I: Get Mansa and Gandhi to join in war w/ GK. DO NOT kill GK scouts because we will try to keep GK alive with "Require Complete Kills". The goal being +Shared War diplo. Take all GK cities. Preference for a fast/mounted attack.
6*) Start capturing Goldmember/Dr. Evil cities that are close to our empire (*on-going goal).
7) Beeline Education/Oxford (plan ahead for a GS bulb)
8) World War II: Joao. Again, get M + G to join war and avoid "-Declared on our friend". Take all Joao cities.
9) Recapture Swinger's Pad (possibly do this before WWII, but it's probably not desirable)
10) Beeline Railroad (Mining Inc.)/Assembly Line for eventual Facism (Paratroopers)
11) Only after Mining, Inc., build spies and get them in Swinger's Pad. Move the Palace next to Swinger's Pad for reduced cost of Espionage missions.
12) Beeline Mass Media, start The United Nations (no need to rush with GE, gold, etc.)
13) Beeline Fascism (Paratroopers): Raze Dr. Evil's Lair
14) Run 100% Espionage slider to get Swinger's Pad to legendary with spies
15) Diplo victory with votes from Mansa and Gandhi (Dr. Evil as opponent)
Sun Tzu Wu
Horses are on-line. Probably build a chariot or two. One to guard/pillage GK's copper. One to protect corn/fur site.
Steal a 2nd worker and send it to improve the corn/fur
Send a worker over to our copper (I know its a lot of travel time, but other than cottages in the capital, there's not much to do. Consider a road out of our territory. Don't chop anything (pre-chop ok)
Steal a 2nd worker and send it to improve the corn/fur
Send a worker over to our copper (I know its a lot of travel time, but other than cottages in the capital, there's not much to do. Consider a road out of our territory. Don't chop anything (pre-chop ok)
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Thanks Seraiel! I also noticed that someone faithfully reproduced it in the test game.
What is missing from the test game is the odd Shore plot SE of Shark that should be an Ocean plot, since it is not adjacent to any Land plot. I have updated that in a new test game, but will not publish unless I find other errors.
Sun Tzu Wu
What is missing from the test game is the odd Shore plot SE of Shark that should be an Ocean plot, since it is not adjacent to any Land plot. I have updated that in a new test game, but will not publish unless I find other errors.
Sun Tzu Wu
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Thanks for the suggestions, WastinTime.
It's too late for me to do much more this evening.
I have a fairly long (most of the day) RL commitment Saturday. Otherwise, I'm free to work on my turn set, other than the usual work/school commitments most players have.
Sun Tzu Wu
It's too late for me to do much more this evening.
I have a fairly long (most of the day) RL commitment Saturday. Otherwise, I'm free to work on my turn set, other than the usual work/school commitments most players have.
Sun Tzu Wu
Here are three T42 Real Game Screenshots 
Gandhi is tiny! What is he doing???
Genghis seems to have roaded to his 2nd city SE of that corn. Sneaky. Maybe we can catch a worker up by the bronze?
That detached archer will be our main danger. Tachywaxon's research means workers should road towards the bronze before actually improving it. Although not sure on river tiles since it already connected to empire.
Also, there is a weird ocean pattern to our southeast.
It is Ocean->Coastal->Ocean, which should be impossible.
The mapmaker has definitely replaced a coastal tile with an ocean.
Our two workers on our Pigs City are well placed to start chopping.
Our capital can grow in 2 turns working flood plains and then have a half full food bin at size 4. Then it can whip a worker or even a settler if we want pretty easily.
Pigs City can chop 2 forests to get the settler out faster. A 3rd forest can be chopped to ensure a very good Granary whip in about 7 turns. Granary already has like 8
in it I think.
The chop pattern can maybe be NW+SW+E to allow regrows and movement between cities.
What else?
Mmm that railroad to our east means it is only 6 turns to get a horse archer to Genghis' capital from Shark.
There is a Dr Evil scout in our lands now. From Swinger's Pad I'm sure.
We can attack Dr Evil any time in the next 17 turns before he gets to Pleased with Gandhi and Mansa due to the +1 peace bonus. Right now Dr Evil is only Pleased with Genghis.
Spoiler :
Gandhi is tiny! What is he doing???
Genghis seems to have roaded to his 2nd city SE of that corn. Sneaky. Maybe we can catch a worker up by the bronze?
That detached archer will be our main danger. Tachywaxon's research means workers should road towards the bronze before actually improving it. Although not sure on river tiles since it already connected to empire.
Also, there is a weird ocean pattern to our southeast.
It is Ocean->Coastal->Ocean, which should be impossible.
The mapmaker has definitely replaced a coastal tile with an ocean.
Our two workers on our Pigs City are well placed to start chopping.
Our capital can grow in 2 turns working flood plains and then have a half full food bin at size 4. Then it can whip a worker or even a settler if we want pretty easily.
Pigs City can chop 2 forests to get the settler out faster. A 3rd forest can be chopped to ensure a very good Granary whip in about 7 turns. Granary already has like 8
in it I think.The chop pattern can maybe be NW+SW+E to allow regrows and movement between cities.
What else?
Mmm that railroad to our east means it is only 6 turns to get a horse archer to Genghis' capital from Shark.
There is a Dr Evil scout in our lands now. From Swinger's Pad I'm sure.
We can attack Dr Evil any time in the next 17 turns before he gets to Pleased with Gandhi and Mansa due to the +1 peace bonus. Right now Dr Evil is only Pleased with Genghis.
Don't chop pre-math!
Who cares if we get a settler a couple turns early? We need to steal a worker and improve the corn first anyway.
Who cares if we get a settler a couple turns early? We need to steal a worker and improve the corn first anyway.
Seraiel
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I've downloaded and looked at the real save:
I'm thinking that the culture of the Goldmember city is not working as intended. I think that those coastal tiles are ment to belong to Goldmember, and that the one not lying in his cultural Borders was supposed to belong to Goldmember too. Does anybody have any idea, where there'd be any sense in those coastal tiles anyhow, if Goldmember is able to reach us anyhow (because of culture) and if we cannot make peace with him. Answer to the first must be simple, we are supposed to be able to reach Goldmember, now if assuming that swede didn't see this, what does us being inside the cultural borders of Goldmember trigger?
(Read next post.)
Apart from that, there is something else, which is really strange, and that is, that neither this, nor the other Goldmember-city we know, can have the GLH, or, swede put the GLH in a city and didn't give it a Lighthouse itself. Question again would be, why did he do that.
So I think that one thing we should do, is send a Galley to Goldmember and find out what that city is about. Maybe we whould produce a Sentry unit once we can, and first send it on that coastal tile that doesn't belong to Goldmember, to be able to have a look without triggering being inside his borders. Maybe WastinTime or someone else wants to have a look at the code for AI behaviour, and find out about the difference of being inside someone's cultural borders or not, because it could be, that swede assumed that we might think of this, and then, that coastal tile is there for a reason, I however think he didn't see this happening, and what I'm not sure about is, if we need a Sentry-unit to be able to see what info he could have hidden for us there, maybe someone knows how far it's possible to see over water.
----------------
Something even more interesting though is this:
Question is why did swede want a city to be there. It's obviously intended, because the Corn in the desert was put there so that the AI founds it's city there, what does a city there change?
I btw noticed that those gaps in the railroad, are everywhere where there are opponents of us. They're at GK, they're at GM and the gap in the NE, where I suspected that is where Dr. Evil sits, imo suports the thought that Dr. Evil really sits there.
Gandhi is no opponent of us, Mansa is neither, no caps there, and this could also be an explanation why Gandhi is still at 1 city, he's probably trapped, because Evil blocked him. Possibility would i. e. be that his Settler got stuck somewhere and cannot get out atm., him having only 1 city is very dubious anyhow.
Something worth testing imo, would be what closing those gaps does, because what they're doing, is keeping our enemies from reaching us, now with the latest screen the gap hindering Goldmember reaching will get closed probably, so we should test what would happen if those gaps wouldn't be there at all, because that's whats going to happen soon.
I'll look further at the save, I'm still wondering what's the reason for the Elephants being connected by the railroad and over the mountain, I'm sure it has to do with Fat Bastard, maybe it's connected to the gap having been / soon being closed. Is it possible to walk over mountains when they have a railroad? This would be worth knowing imho.
Seraiel
(Read next post.)
Apart from that, there is something else, which is really strange, and that is, that neither this, nor the other Goldmember-city we know, can have the GLH, or, swede put the GLH in a city and didn't give it a Lighthouse itself. Question again would be, why did he do that.
So I think that one thing we should do, is send a Galley to Goldmember and find out what that city is about. Maybe we whould produce a Sentry unit once we can, and first send it on that coastal tile that doesn't belong to Goldmember, to be able to have a look without triggering being inside his borders. Maybe WastinTime or someone else wants to have a look at the code for AI behaviour, and find out about the difference of being inside someone's cultural borders or not, because it could be, that swede assumed that we might think of this, and then, that coastal tile is there for a reason, I however think he didn't see this happening, and what I'm not sure about is, if we need a Sentry-unit to be able to see what info he could have hidden for us there, maybe someone knows how far it's possible to see over water.
----------------
Something even more interesting though is this:
Question is why did swede want a city to be there. It's obviously intended, because the Corn in the desert was put there so that the AI founds it's city there, what does a city there change?
I btw noticed that those gaps in the railroad, are everywhere where there are opponents of us. They're at GK, they're at GM and the gap in the NE, where I suspected that is where Dr. Evil sits, imo suports the thought that Dr. Evil really sits there.
Gandhi is no opponent of us, Mansa is neither, no caps there, and this could also be an explanation why Gandhi is still at 1 city, he's probably trapped, because Evil blocked him. Possibility would i. e. be that his Settler got stuck somewhere and cannot get out atm., him having only 1 city is very dubious anyhow.
Something worth testing imo, would be what closing those gaps does, because what they're doing, is keeping our enemies from reaching us, now with the latest screen the gap hindering Goldmember reaching will get closed probably, so we should test what would happen if those gaps wouldn't be there at all, because that's whats going to happen soon.
I'll look further at the save, I'm still wondering what's the reason for the Elephants being connected by the railroad and over the mountain, I'm sure it has to do with Fat Bastard, maybe it's connected to the gap having been / soon being closed. Is it possible to walk over mountains when they have a railroad? This would be worth knowing imho.
Seraiel
Seraiel
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instead of the 4, that his other city's water tiles have? O_oThose tile's I saw were ocean tiles with 3
because of Colossus.That coastal tile besides is ment for us to be able to reach Goldmember pre Astro, so I still think we should go there asap.
Seraiel
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And something additional: See that mountain-formation here?
Notice how it perfectly shapes a BFC, and how the center-tile where the city would be is even desert?
City values city-sites as far as I've heard very harsh by Food, and that site has more Food than any city I ever had myself, so swede wanted Mansa to found a city there. There is even one probably, because I'm guessing that we wouldn't see the center-tile's changed yields from the screenshot I posted before.
Notice how it perfectly shapes a BFC, and how the center-tile where the city would be is even desert?
City values city-sites as far as I've heard very harsh by Food, and that site has more Food than any city I ever had myself, so swede wanted Mansa to found a city there. There is even one probably, because I'm guessing that we wouldn't see the center-tile's changed yields from the screenshot I posted before.
Seraiel
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Did anybody btw. notice that Dr. Evil is up to 4 cities?
Wake up guys, Evil settled at the Railroad near Goldmember, what does that mean.
[edit]
Means that he now is connected with Goldmember most likely, what does this also mean, so what does Goldmember have that he can give evil, that evil wasn't supposed to have before T3x? I'm thinking about strategics and simiar, but I'm sure there's something else connected with it. There's a reason why swede chose Goldmember to be a minor Civilization, minor Civilizations cannot be seen through diplomacy, what does Goldmember has that swede didn't want us to see and that evil should not have before T3x?
And where does evil sit, if his 4th city went there.
Wake up guys, Evil settled at the Railroad near Goldmember, what does that mean.
[edit]
Means that he now is connected with Goldmember most likely, what does this also mean, so what does Goldmember have that he can give evil, that evil wasn't supposed to have before T3x? I'm thinking about strategics and simiar, but I'm sure there's something else connected with it. There's a reason why swede chose Goldmember to be a minor Civilization, minor Civilizations cannot be seen through diplomacy, what does Goldmember has that swede didn't want us to see and that evil should not have before T3x?
And where does evil sit, if his 4th city went there.
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