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T8 > T11 > T12 builds in AI cities

Hong Kong: 9h > 15h > 17h (wb?) [merc +1hpt]
Shanghai: -- (wb) (p1) > 3h (p2) > 4h (p3)
Mongolia: 16h > 28h > 32h (p1) (worker?)
Manchou: 5h (p2) > 8h (p2) > 3h (p3) ?!?
Tokyo: 24h (p1) > 6h (p1) > 9h (p1) (wb?) [bureau +50%]
Moscow: 24h (p1) > 3h (p1) > 4h (p1)
 
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FYI, bbp, I'm trying to compare yours, Kait's and other Gua MMs.I'm thinking we might want to capture all of the adjacent cities asap, except Mumbai. Speed up AI research.
 
bbp, in this run did you chop or go straight to the rice farm.
iirc, rice farm. In any case, I'm strongly in favour of rice farm first now. We need to get wb's out before we gift and recapture, and in time for HK to work the fish when it comes out of revolt. Rice farm first gives some flexibility in worker moves, though.
 
One random note from testing so far - due to barb cities popping up along the coast, we are not likely to have a trade connection with European capitals for a long time.
 
Here is my current test run to T38 Kremlin.

Beijing whips forge and 2-3 chokos for max OF into Kremlin, gift and recapture.
Beijing workers: one mines iron, other goes straight to stone, roads and quarries. Iron worker rejoins him on stone, then both watermill the FP, followed by chopping.
4t cycle: invest hammers in choko - whip - build Kremlin for 2t while regrowing to pop 4, 2 chops come in.

Gua: whips quite a bit. I do choko whip, take off queue, galley whip, build sword with the two OFs. Those are the HK capture units. I'm chopping one forest after the rice farm, then roading to Shanghai (even though I don't know how useful that is ultimately - might be better to just road for the over-land TRs). ANother choko from Gua heads by land to Shanghai, joining one from Beijing and the two units arriving by galley.

My play's not quite optimal, but this feels pretty good overall.
 

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Beijing whips forge and 2-3 chokos for max OF into Kremlin, gift and recapture.
Recall: if you gift/recap, you will lose everything in all partial builds. I wasn't following your plan too closely, so maybe you're saying the gift/recapture is after chopping Kremlin to completion?
 
This makes it hard for me to beg for Libraries, Barracks, and Walls outside the capital.

IIRC, and based on the research in the post above, barracks and walls survive! IF the city doesn't go into revolt (i.e. you have met the culture dominance requirements). Library is lost tho.
 
Barracks and Walls can survive?
That's new to me :)
Can someone check it in the test game real quick?

Tested. Both survive.
You're thinking that they never survive capture, which is true. But this is recapture.

Probably bad news that walls survive. If we manage to exploit our +200% walls bonus, we can't rinse, repeat.
 
Tested. Both survive.
You're thinking that they never survive capture, which is true. But this is recapture.

Probably bad news that walls survive. If we manage to exploit our +200% walls bonus, we can't rinse, repeat.

Sweeeeet.

City anger purge gets noticebly stronger with Barracks (and presumably Stable) surviving.
 
Haven't looked at your test yet, bbp, but here's a try at a DoW on Stalin on T20, dovetailing with what I understand to be Kait's Gua MM, with its DoW on Churchill a few turns later. Starting from T12.

Builds:
Yanan: granary(1whip)-choko(1whip)-chariot(1whip)
Gua: granary(1whip)-wb(chop)-choko(part)-galley(part)-choko(2whip/queue)-galley(2whip/queue)-choko-galley-sword
Beijing: granary-chariot-choko(for Manchou -- choko from Mongolia too late)

Workers:
Yanan: horses-watermill Yanan-2nw?
Gua: chop-farm rice-2 roads to connect Yanan? or partial watermill at Gua-e until transport to gems? or?
Beijing wkr1: wamill(t12)-mineIron(2t)-wamill(3t)-???
Beijing wkr2: wamill(t12)-mineIron(2t)-wamill(2t)-mvB-2n3w-rd(2t)-rdB-3n2w(2t)-???

I tested and our bomber with movement on t20 DoW teleports to Yanan and can still bombard same turn. So I can take over the turnset. Tomorrow I'll examine bbp's Kremiln ideas.
 

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