[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

If we're going to revolt to Tao, when? During a war? Remember, we'll miss the auto-GFC growth by doing that. Kind a waste with Mongolia and Manchou. Or do we just chop/whip pavilions?

 

[WastinTime]

Any idea if Pavilions die on re-capture? Castles?

Pavillion = theatre = destroyed
Castle survives. Oddly, this is the only culture producing building that does survive. Well, of course a Citadel survives too.

 

[babybluepants]

here's a try at a DoW on Stalin on T20

Very different approach to what I was doing. Yours is a much quicker attack. I do like squeezing in an extra city capture before the bomber goes after HK.

Keep in mind that we can probably pick off the Moscow worker before this, though we could also delay that to hopefully sync with the Mongolia attack. In the test save, it just starts roading towards Mongolia.

For the sake of comparison, here is my T20 save. I revolted to Tao/OR for 2t to start, and whipped a second worker in Yan'an. No military units yet.

LC

Spoiler :

no revolts

4 workers / 1 choko / 2 chariots

ready to attack Mongolia with choko+2cha on T21.

Yan'an pop2, 14/24f, 5h OF, 3 whip anger
granary
pig pasture / horse pasture / 5t FP watermill

Beijing pop3, 17/26f, 12h into choko, no whip anger
granary
wheat farm / iron mine / ivory watermill / 1t ivory watermill

Gua pop3, 17/26f, 4h into galley, 81h into choko, 2 whip anger
granary
corn farm / rice farm / chop / 1t watermill / fish

bbp

Spoiler :

2t anarchy for Tao/OR

5 workers

Yan'an pop1, 11/22f, 4h OF, 1 whip anger
granary
pig pasture / horse pasture / 5t FP watermill

Beijing pop2, 21/24f, 29h into forge, no whip anger
granary
wheat farm / iron mine / stone quarry and road / 1t FP watermill

Gua pop3, 22/26f, 18h into choko, 1 whip anger
granary
corn farm / rice farm / 2t chop

 

[babybluepants]

If we're going to revolt to Tao, when? During a war? Remember, we'll miss the auto-GFC growth by doing that. Kind a waste with Mongolia and Manchou. Or do we just chop/whip pavilions?

Fair point...
With Kremlin+SP, whipping a pavilion is pretty easy. It pops borders in 4t. If we need to gift and recap later, so be it. But, are we gifting and recapturing that much after the initial wave of captures?

 

[babybluepants]

Looks like we are the only team to go for the immediate shrine in Yan’an.

Note that the shrine contributes GP points (1 gppt), which means that we don’t get a pure GS with a library. If we gift / recap Beijing and flush the Spy points there, we’ll be getting some GP odds (30-40% with a relatively quick library). This may be ok, as we could probably build another shrine in Europe for +4 scenario points?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Probably the easiest place for a GS will be Gua.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@bbp, the fp at Yanan-n should be watermilled after the fp at Yanan-nw. This is a perfect example of what Kait said -- it might prevent us from watermilling Y-nw. Also, Y-nw could be shared by the 2-gold city, so might as well improve it first.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Very different approach to what I was doing. Yours is a much quicker attack. I do like squeezing in an extra city capture before the bomber goes after HK.

Keep in mind that we can probably pick off the Moscow worker before this, though we could also delay that to hopefully sync with the Mongolia attack. In the test save, it just starts roading towards Mongolia.

For the sake of comparison, here is my T20 save. I revolted to Tao/OR for 2t to start, and whipped a second worker in Yan'an. No military units yet.

LC

Spoiler :

no revolts

4 workers / 1 choko / 2 chariots

ready to attack Mongolia with choko+2cha on T21.

Yan'an pop2, 14/24f, 5h OF, 3 whip anger
granary
pig pasture / horse pasture / 5t FP watermill

Beijing pop3, 17/26f, 12h into choko, no whip anger
granary
wheat farm / iron mine / ivory watermill / 1t ivory watermill

Gua pop3, 17/26f, 4h into galley, 2 whip anger
granary
corn farm / rice farm / chop / 1t watermill / fish

bbp

Spoiler :

2t anarchy for Tao/OR

5 workers

Yan'an pop1, 11/22f, 4h OF, 1 whip anger
granary
pig pasture / horse pasture / 5t FP watermill

Beijing pop2, 21/24f, 29h into forge, no whip anger
granary
wheat farm / iron mine / stone quarry and road / 1t FP watermill

Gua pop3, 22/26f, 18h into choko, 1 whip anger
granary
corn farm / rice farm / 2t chop

Note that my t20 save also has 81/60h in a queued Gua choko. The chopped wb and 2whipping makes a big difference when we prioritize chokos over swords. Almost impossible to 1pop a choko quickly. Gua will produce galley(t22)-choko(t23)-sword(t24).

 

[LowtherCastle]

bbp, could you upload any t11 save you have, pls? I want to know how many hammers AI cities are producing per turn.

 

[babybluepants]

Note that my t20 save also has 81/60h in a queued Gua choko. The chopped wb and 2whipping makes a big difference when we prioritize chokos over swords. Almost impossible to 1pop a choko quickly. Gua will produce galley(t22)-choko(t23)-sword(t24).

Ok, I missed that. That's pretty much what I was doing, too. Except with a delayed chop and the 2t of revolt. My sword is done on T26, which is the same, when you discount the 2t revolt. Food bin and OF are probably a bit different.

@bbp, the fp at Yanan-n should be watermilled after the fp at Yanan-nw. This is a perfect example of what Kait said -- it might prevent us from watermilling Y-nw. Also, Y-nw could be shared by the 2-gold city, so might as well improve it first.

Agreed. I was being sloppy with Yan workers.

bbp, could you upload any t11 save you have, pls? I want to know how many hammers AI cities are producing per turn.

Attached here. Is that ok, or do I need to submit through the gotm site?

 

[Deckhand]

Attached here. Is that ok, or do I need to submit through the gotm site?

You should submit through gotm site. OK to put link here. Allowed but discouraged to put file here.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Ok, I missed that. That's pretty much what I was doing, too. Except with a delayed chop and the 2t of revolt. My sword is done on T26, which is the same, when you discount the 2t revolt. Food bin and OF are probably a bit different.

Agreed. I was being sloppy with Yan workers.

Attached here. Is that ok, or do I need to submit through the gotm site?

okay, bbp, go ahead and delete the link. I've downloaded it. Ty. When you link it here, it can get into the wrong hands.

 

[LowtherCastle]

You should submit through gotm site. OK to put link here. Allowed but discouraged to put file here.

Freaked me out, Deckhand. Thought I'd gone into a opponent's thread...

 

[LowtherCastle]

I just realized that Deity AI trainpercent is 60. For some reason I thought it was 85. Do they actually only need 36 hammers to build a worker? It's also 60 for construct percent. So archers are only 15h? That means an archer whip is automatically 2 archers in 2t. sheesh.

Edit: Tokyo comped its worker on t10 with 34h!? How? Is that because of the -5% iAIPerEraModifier? 60*(60%-5%) = 33h ? Meaning AIs' train and build percent is 55% ?!?!? Wowsalot.

So wbs would be 16h? HK is at 17h right now, wbs cost more or HK's not building a wb.

Omg. That would also mean city growth rate is 75%? 16f instead of 17f for pop2?

Okay, this is getting freaky. Went into the test save T4 and planted GSpies and spies in various AI cities. Get this, pop2 Rome needs 18f for pop3, Toku at pop2 needs 17f for pop3, whereas pop2 Stalin only needs 16f, and pop2 Washington needs 15h?!? Wtf???? Pop1 JC needs 16f. Pop1 Washington needs 13f. Settler costs 92h. Granary costs 32h. Archers cost 14h. Worker costs 34h. How come different AIs have different costs?

Omg. THey're in different eras, different era modifers. Duh. So now knowing their eras becomes a factor. Sure enough:

pop2 mod
 16f 75% Classical
 15f 70% Medieval
 14f 65% Renaissance
 13f 60% Industrial
 12f 55% Modern

So the million-dollar question is, do those AI modifiers affect wonder builds? Industrious AIs already have a +50% hammer bonus and I have Stalin and Roosevelt in the Modern era (-25% era modifier), BIsmarck in the Industrial era (-20%) and De Gaulle in the Renaissance (-15%).

 

[Deckhand]

Freaked me out, Deckhand. Thought I'd gone into a opponent's thread...

suspicious and unusual to see me posting here?

With only four teams, I've been able to keep up with all threads so far.
But I just read the words - understanding would be too much work.

 

[LowtherCastle]

But I just read the words - understanding would be too much work.

Same here.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I just realized that Deity AI trainpercent is 60. For some reason I thought it was 85. Do they actually only need 36 hammers to build a worker? It's also 60 for construct percent. So archers are only 15h? That means an archer whip is automatically 2 archers in 2t. sheesh.

Edit: Tokyo comped its worker on t10 with 34h!? How? Is that because of the -5% iAIPerEraModifier? 60*(60%-5%) = 33h ? Meaning AIs' train and build percent is 55% ?!?!? Wowsalot.

So wbs would be 16h? HK is at 17h right now, wbs cost more or HK's not building a wb.

Omg. That would also mean city growth rate is 75%? 16f instead of 17f for pop2?

Okay, this is getting freaky. Went into the test save T4 and planted GSpies and spies in various AI cities. Get this, pop2 Rome needs 18f for pop3, Toku at pop2 needs 17f for pop3, whereas pop2 Stalin only needs 16f, and pop2 Washington needs 15h?!? Wtf???? Pop1 JC needs 16f. Pop1 Washington needs 13f. Settler costs 92h. Granary costs 32h. Archers cost 14h. Worker costs 34h. How come different AIs have different costs?

Omg. THey're in different eras, different era modifers. Duh. So now knowing their eras becomes a factor. Sure enough:

pop2 mod
 16f 75% Classical
 15f 70% Medieval
 14f 65% Renaissance
 13f 60% Industrial
 12f 55% Modern

So the million-dollar question is, do those AI modifiers affect wonder builds? Industrious AIs already have a +50% hammer bonus and I have Stalin and Roosevelt in the Modern era (-25% era modifier), BIsmarck in the Industrial era (-20%) and De Gaulle in the Renaissance (-15%).

The AI difficulty modifiers do not affect wonders.

 

[LowtherCastle]

The AI difficulty modifiers do not affect wonders.

Okay, what about tech costs?

 

[WastinTime]

Okay, what about tech costs?

I think they pay Noble costs and we pay 130% of that.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think they pay Noble costs and we pay 130% of that.

Right, but is there an additional era modifier? I'm not even sure how to detect that. In the test save, I could play long enough to see an AI building a wonder using a GSpy and spy, but how does one see the AI's tech rate?