[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

How many GSpies do we want? Putting Kremlin elsewhere with a courthouse, with pacifism, GA and Parthenon might get more GSpies than stacking in one city.

I think stacking Kremlin and getting 2 more GSpys from that one city should be good. We could even live with just 1 more GSpy.
Kinda depends on if our top secret EP plan works out.

 

[WastinTime]

Yes. Pls do OBs one at a time so you can figure out where that AI's capital (and other city) is.

You're saying make color-coded a city dot-map for every AI using alt+x, yes?

 

[WastinTime]

This is interesting. What's the best strategy for controlling the AP?

usually capturing it. Possibly flipping the AI that gets Theo to our religion before he completes the AP.

 

[babybluepants]

You're saying make color-coded a city dot-map for every AI using alt+x, yes?

Yes, that's right.

 

[Kaitzilla]

We have a score of 281 from 10 wonder, 6 pop, and 38 tech.
We are getting an extra 126 points for our tech gifts. It's 6pts for every 1 in our tech score, but each tech is increased by era. So Communism is 5, giving +30 to our score. Math would be just 2, giving +12, etc.

For the AIs, normal starting base score (assuming 3 population) on this map is 128 (5 wonder (palace), 3 pop, 17 tech)
Do we know each AI population?

We can see the amount of tech and if there are many late-era techs below. I'm just guessing 2 classical techs in most cases, but 2 classical = 1 Renaissance tech, among other trade-offs.
Am I explaining this clearly? classical = +12 pts, Medieval = +18pts, Renaissance = +24pts, etc.
1 population is about +4pts

194 English: +3 pop, 2 classical and one Industrial tech?
190 America : +2 pop, 2 classical and one Industrial tech? (navy seal = Industrialism)
184 Russia : +2 pop, 2 classical and MilTrad is +24
184 Germany: +2 pop, 2 classical and... (also has a tech from era #4? or two more techs from Classical?)
172 Japan : +2 pop and 3 classical techs? (i.e. the 2 everyone else got + CS for samurai?)
156 Ottoman: +28 = 2 classical techs and 1 pop?
138 Roman: +10 = 3 population? No tech gifts

That's genius!
I've never used Score from the Scoreboard to try to suss out how many techs an AI has.

It is shocking that we have so many more techs than they do too. (+10 Classical techs?)

Here is a wiki that lists all techs by era.
http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Eras_(Civ4)

**Edit**
Ugh, here is a better list:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/bts-technology-eras.265996/#post-6563436

Remember, Sossos said if we skip one tech from each era, we get 0 Science Bureau points.
So we have to complete an entire Era's tech list to get the roughly 14 points needed to reach 420 and win the game.
(All techs in the tech tree to get the full 100 points)

 

[WastinTime]

T35? borders pop a 2nd time in Bejing.
We can chop 10 forests = 276h for 717h into Kremlin (with forge, OR)

before that, maybe 3-pop whip a forge with a little overflow?

If we get our hands on (alpha or currency) build wealth or research, we can chop everything ahead of time and actually have Kremlin ~T38. Delayed 2t because of anarchy switching to OR, Tao.

Or, forget OrgRel, Tao.
At size 6, Bejing does 51hpt into Kremlin.
Just 2 turns of prep gives +102.

So, 276 chopped = +648 plus our organic 51hpt is...
801.
Kremlin actively working on T36

We could also manage it without the forge.

 

[WastinTime]

It is shocking that we have so many more techs than they do too. (+10 Classical techs?)

Communism is +30 tho. And Philo, machinery: +18. So our +126 works out exactly to be our 8 extra techs: Mathematics, Code of Laws, Drama, Metal Casting, Machinery, Iron Working, Philosophy and Communism

 

[LowtherCastle]

All AI city populations are 1, which we know from the Demo screen Population Rival Best = 3000.

 

[WastinTime]

All AI city populations are 1, which we know from the Demo screen Population Rival Best = 3000.

I was afraid of that. Now I can't quite figure out the scoreboard.

A wonder gives +16. Obviously there are no world wonders other than ours, but there could be national wonders.
Tech by era is +12, 18, 24, 30, 36

Land and pop we know are 0 and 3.

That's it. Nothing else affects score. ah, see next post.

 

[WastinTime]

All AI city populations are 1, which we know from the Demo screen Population Rival Best = 3000.

Oh, rival worst is 1000
1875 average = 15 population total.

 

[WastinTime]

I updated my post. So English should have 3 cities. Ottomans, Romans 1. Others have 2.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I'll check to see if we get discounts on any techs tomorrow.

 

[babybluepants]

Ok, I signed OB with Churchill first. One city (I assume Bombay) is 2N8W of Guangzhou, but I'm having trouble locating the capital. Do you guys know if there is some sort of limit on how far we can go with re-base?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Ok, I signed OB with Churchill first. One city (I assume Bombay) is 2N8W of Guangzhou, but I'm having trouble locating the capital. Do you guys know if there is some sort of limit on how far we can go with re-base?

Not that I know of.

 

[babybluepants]

I'm stumped. I've tried to very systematically go around the entire map, and nothing.
I have to go to work shortly. I'll pick it up tonight. Maybe I can think of something in the meantime.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Spoiler bbp's power post :

Demo - soldiers:

Spoiler :

AI starting techs = 26,000 (Sailing, Hunting, Mining, AH, TW, Archery, BW)
AI city units = 9,000 per city (LB+Archer)
Praetorian = 8,000
Janissary = 9,000

92,000 China = 54k tech + 9k archers + 16k bomber + 10k GW + 3k pop
60,000 rival best
49,625 rival avg = 397,000 rival total
40,000 rival worst

Assuming every city has LB+Arch:
Churchill = 26k tech + 27k city units + 1k pop = 54k
Roosevelt, Stalin, Bismarck and Toku = 26k tech + 18k city units + 1k pop = 45k
Mehmed = 26k tech + 9k city units + 9k jan = 44k
JC = 26k tech + 9k city units + 8k praet = 43k
Uknown AI = min. 40k
Doesn't quite work out for max and min values, and the total is about 36k short. It's conceivable that AIs have been given some additional techs or units, but it's not much. I think what we see is pretty much what we get.
One thought I had was that each AI has one of its UU, but that's not possible with the soliders values we see.
Maybe Stalin does have a cossack, as that would put him on exactly 60k, which is the max value. And we know that he has MT.

Spoiler WT's Score post :

We have a score of 281 from 10 wonder, 6 pop, and 38 tech.
We are getting an extra 126 points for our tech gifts. It's 6pts for every 1 in our tech score, but each tech is increased by era. So Communism is 5, giving +30 to our score. Math would be just 2, giving +12, etc.

For the AIs, normal starting base score (assuming 3 population) on this map is 128 (5 wonder (palace), 3 pop, 17 tech)
Do we know each AI population? (no, but the total is 15)

We can see the amount of tech and if there are many late-era techs below. I'm just guessing 2 classical techs in most cases, but 2 classical = 1 Renaissance tech, among other trade-offs.
Am I explaining this clearly? classical = +12 pts, Medieval = +18pts, Renaissance = +24pts, etc.
1 population is about +4pts

194 English: 3 classical and one Industrial tech?
190 America : -1 pop, 3 classical and one Industrial tech? (navy seal = Industrialism)
184 Russia : -1 pop, 3 classical and MilTrad is +24
184 Germany: -1 pop, 3 classical and... (also has a tech from era #4? or two more techs from Classical?)
172 Japan : -1 pop and 4 classical techs? (i.e. the 3 everyone else got + CS for samurai?)
156 Ottoman: +28 = -2 pop and 3 classical techs or 2 medieval
138 Roman: +10 = -2 pop One Medieval tech

My calcs show 6 of 7 AIs with Monarchy (Classical) and 1 of 7 AIs with Civil Service (Medieval), corresponding with Romans not having Monarchy and perhaps Japan with CS. The only other Classical techs they might have are:

Iron Working 10K power
Mathematics 6K power
Metal Casting 4K power​

and bbp showed a total of 36K power available for all AIs, so it could be 6 AIs with Math or one or two AIs with some combination adding up to 36K. Otherwise, it looks like most AI scores are from Medieval techs or beyond.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I'm stumped. I've tried to very systematically go around the entire map, and nothing.
I have to go to work shortly. I'll pick it up tonight. Maybe I can think of something in the meantime.

Can you pause it and upload?

 

[babybluepants]

Ok, uploaded.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, the map is 84x52, isn't it? Are you seeing that many tiles?

xpost: never mind, I'll take a look, have a good day!

 

[babybluepants]

My calcs show 6 of 7 AIs with Monarchy (Classical) and 1 of 7 AIs with Civil Service (Medieval), corresponding with Romans not having Monarchy and perhaps Japan with CS. The only other Classical techs they might have are:

Iron Working 10K power
Mathematics 6K power
Metal Casting 4K power​

and bbp showed a total of 36K power available for all AIs, so it could be 6 AIs with Math or one or two AIs with some combination adding up to 36K. Otherwise, it looks like most AI scores are from Medieval techs or beyond.

I have some reason to believe that they all have Feudalism, which wouldn't contribute any soldiers.
That would the following unaccounted for:
Churchill, Roosevelt 48pts
Bismarck 42pts
Tokugawa 30pts
Mehmed, Stalin 18pts
Caesar 0pts