[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

I think our main mistake was not beelining HBR and I take responsibility for that. I resisted it. I don't know if they did or not, but I assume they did because their graphs were ahead of ours from the start.
 
I think our main mistake was not beelining HBR
nah, we were done with conquest T71. If it was lagging, we coulda done Engineering.
One issue was the chain reaction : earlier culture needed earlier GPs which needed earlier GAge.
Engineering coulda helped culture too, so maybe that tech was the key.

IMO, we had good planning for up to ~T60, then we had no time to stop the game and plan for T72 win. We played the last 20+ turns without a major pause to plan the end game. Just ran out of time/energy. T72 woulda been easy if we stopped around T60 to plan it. I had zero time that week.
 
I think our main mistake was not beelining HBR and I take responsibility for that. I resisted it. I don't know if they did or not, but I assume they did because their graphs were ahead of ours from the start.

Our first tech was 100% HBR around T30 to T37.

The only way we tech it earlier was to clear up Alphabet/Currency/Astro debate earlier somehow.

Plus, we were quite poor in the T20's.

Our only mistake was not planning harder for T72 win back around T60 when we were bombing Berlin ya.

3 wonders get done 2 turns faster, and we go for the T72 win definitely.
 
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Yeah, we needed more team effort to optimize the ending. Definitely didn't need the last round culture to reach the 420. The extra 8 AP points were doable, too.

If I had the patience to play marathon, I might attempt a very fast cultural victory... Anyone doing that?
 
+25,000:culture: every 2 turns, forever ;)

The era of nigh-unlimited espionage has arrived.
All about seed culture and spy armies now.
 
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The era of nigh-unlimited espionage has arrived.
All about seed culture and spy armies now.
I haven't thought of any other ways to use the unlimited EPs since you can't really just assign them to anyone you want. Could be a steal $$ trick in there, but I don't think so. It's ideal for culture.
 
I haven't thought of any other ways to use the unlimited EPs since you can't really just assign them to anyone you want. Could be a steal $$ trick in there, but I don't think so. It's ideal for culture.

The real value might be military training?
A fresh colony every turn might have more use than just infinite espionage points.

Just need a close island that can hold 4 cities. :hmm:
Noes!
We just proved it could be done with a 1 tile island with colony in the heart of our empire.


Imagine Imperialistic Julius Caesar getting 4 great general points (and 2xp) every time his chariot killed a warrior.
Then imagine DeGaulle producing 8 warriors in a new colony every turn to beat on.

4 size 2 cities and a chariot army seems wasteful, but maybe not on marathon.
Julius does get 50% bonus to produce settlers.
And the cities could be size 1 if no razing was turned on.
Would actually need a 5th city to get French war success each turn.

30 Great General Points every turn for the Praetorian army!
Don't think the Great Wall bonus or the 100% xp Great General promotion helps here.

Such a windfall of free xp and Great Generals would also do silly things for Boudica.
Guerilla III Gaelic Warriors and March Combat III Macemen everywhere.
Or the legendary army that can use enemy roads might become practical.

Or imagine the Vikings with 5:move: Galleys and Combat III + March Berserkers because a strong coastal production city got 5 Settled Great Generals. :)
That would make Knights look puny on a water map!
Heal-every-turn 11.2:strength: 5:move: amphibious killing machines. (Or 6:move: with circumnavigation)
Just need 30 dead colonies and 240 dead warriors in 30 turns hmm.

Ugh, almost need an imperialist civ.
15 colonies to get 5 Great Generals is more manageable.
OMG Cyrus!
Imperialistic for double great general points check.
25% less xp per promo check.
Immortals instead of Chariots.
Combat III+March immortals?
Stable means 1 less Great General needed. :hmm:
Not sure if delaying early rush to level up great generals is a good idea.
But it might make sense midgame.


Pacal of course derails this strategy.
Maybe put him in the game as a regular opponent?
That way he can't spawn as a colony.
Chariots can handle dog soldiers and the rest of the weird stuff.
 
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nah, we were done with conquest T71. If it was lagging, we coulda done Engineering.
One issue was the chain reaction : earlier culture needed earlier GPs which needed earlier GAge.
Engineering coulda helped culture too, so maybe that tech was the key.

IMO, we had good planning for up to ~T60, then we had no time to stop the game and plan for T72 win. We played the last 20+ turns without a major pause to plan the end game. Just ran out of time/energy. T72 woulda been easy if we stopped around T60 to plan it. I had zero time that week.
Not talking about faster conquest, but about earlier empire. Just like with your seminal logic for WB economy -- how to spam cities asap without killing your economy. Shifts everything earlier.
 
The -20% bonus remains a huge mystery.

Woohoo! :woohoo:
EliteTroops really did solve the mystery of -20% Trade Route bonus. :bowdown::worship::bowdown:

I fired up my old culture game that was driving me crazy, and sure enough my city revolt cause my island city to switch its trade route to one of the other 2 Legendary cities.
So it was NOT a bug at all when my Legendary City 1 came out of revolt and the -20% bonus vanished.
It just switch to a different Legendary City, because I only had 1 island city and my 15 pop city was taking 1 of its 2 trade routes.

Yes, if you can force one of your island cities to form a trade route with the foreign owned legendary city, you will get -20% Trade Routes bonus in that city!
Spoiler :






This is the reason I never could figure it out before.
In past games, I'd always try to crush my :espionage: win civ down to 1 city or put it on an iceball island so it couldn't send a big army to occupy my legendary cities.
But this destroyed the +150% sustained peace bonus that my island city was getting when it tried to form a trade route to the Legendary City, reducing the trade route from 3:gold: down to 2:gold:.
That made all my mainland cities equivalent to my Legendary cities as far as trade routes go.
Also, if I had Open Borders agreements with other AIs, my island city frequently formed 3:gold: per turn trade routes with any AI I had not been at war with recently.

That is why when I Closed Borders with all AI, I'd sometimes get -20% Trade Route bonus, but usually not. :sad:
Because my island city would just pick one of my numerous mainland cities to get +2:gold: per turn with instead of the Legendary City which also gave +2:gold: per turn because I'd been at war with that civ recently.

So if you want -20% Trade Route bonus in your spy city, force your island city to form a trade route to it!
1)
Any civ that is getting +3:gold: per turn trade routes with your island civ, close borders with them. :trouble:
2) Build Great Lighthouse and tech Currency so the island city has more trade routes.
3) Try to have 75% Sustained peace bonus with your legendary city foreign civ so the legendary city will barely get a +3:gold: per turn trade route to form to it from an island city.
4) If you have any 14 population or higher cities, whip them down to 13 pop >_>
A player with 4 high population cities will never get the -20% trade route bonus because all island cities will form trade routes to the 4 high pop domestic cities.

Sustained Peace bonus recharges 3% per turn, so you need 25 turns of peace with the legendary gift civ before 3:gold: per turn trade route will reactivate.

OR
You cheat, and build a +50% harbor in your island city.
This means you only need 25% Sustained peace bonus, so you can form the trade route with the legendary gift civ after only 9 turns of peace (+27%) instead of 25 turns of peace (+75%)
But if you do this, your island city will also form a trade route with any domestic mainland Size 11 cities or higher for 3:gold: per turn.
 
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Not talking about faster conquest, but about earlier empire. Just like with your seminal logic for WB economy -- how to spam cities asap without killing your economy. Shifts everything earlier.
I agree, but I think this is a case of 20/20 hindsight. I also felt halfway through this game (around the time of your TS or Kait's first) that we could have expanded much faster, but I think it was difficult to imagine in the real game just how powerful the bomber is and how nerfed the AIs are.

I'm surprised, looking at some of the screenshots from PR's game, at how little map knowledge they had throughout. As recently as 75 AD, they seem to have no visibility on England, let alone America. Impressive that they could plan out the entire game without. They don't even see the Yemen peninsula!

Edit: probably means they used the bomber to knock some heads, while we were spending turns exploring...

They seem to have run into some trouble capping Roosevelt... Hard to say what the situation is exactly without seeing the save. Edit: Maybe they are missing the 1.4x power rating modifier? Their power rating at 125AD is considerably lower than ours was, at about 350k.

Edit: Ok, looked at their current save. Average world power is 156,200 and Roosevelt appears to be at about 115,000. I'm not exactly sure how this works, but 115x1.4=161, which is higher than average. Is that right? In that case they would need to add another 25k to their own rating to cap him.

Spoiler :

Soldiers:
PR 354,000
Churchill 157,000
Roosevelt ca. 115,000
Toku ca. 78,000
DG 77,000
 
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What if you simply had no island cities? then wouldn't the colony trade routes be higher than internal trade rts?

Oh!
Yes, you are right :)

If there are no island cities, then the +150% sustained peace bonus will trump any internal trade routes, and all gifted Legendary Cities will have a domestic city somewhere form a trade route with it.
The minimum needed is +75% sustained peace bonus to go with +25% connection to capital, and that lets 2:gold: trade route appear which is more than 1:gold: per turn that internal trade routes usually give.
 
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