[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

I was planning to settle Canal T21, timed with Myst for the monument. Now maybe 4foodSilver is better. Costs 2 more gpt and only starts with two coastal tiles but far better city and gets wb 4t sooner.

I suggest S4 scouting farther. I had S3 moving toward 4foodSilver if S4 just keeps going, altho that land may end right there.

I had S5 hanging out down south in case a wandering AI wb passes by. Same with S2 up north altho he’s currently ready to settle Canal if decided.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Current tech plan: Myst-Sailing. If S4 loops all the way down so we don’t need that galley, maybe different tech plan.

Or if we don’t seem likely to meet anyone for alpha, do we beeline bw? Whipping and chopping sure would help expansion.

 

[WastinTime]

Or if we don’t seem likely to meet anyone for alpha, do we beeline bw?

Yep, and IW if the AIs don't start cooperating. SB still doesn't know anyone (I'm told)

I also want to scout the 4food site (and beyond if it exists). I think we will have 2 good sites there.

So far, it appears we may not get enough sites (sent from heaven) to make us turn away from Canal. (not that I'm complaining about the sites we have!)
So we should guard Canal and settle it early if we have to (SB approaches)

Doesn't Cows need to have 1 fur camp instead of running way over to horses/Rice?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Hmm, thanks to OCC all 7 cities can build cathedrals with our state religion to get +2 and +50% in each city.
Tao and confu get double speed with copper.
Christian gets double speed with stone.

That makes AP and University of Sankore (+100% with stone) more attractive.
+2 and +2 in 21 buildings

A shame monasteries obsolete with Sci. Method and lose everything but the culture, but Sankore lasts all the way until computers.

If we could get an AI to build AP in our religion , then we could build both Sankore and Spiral Minaret for +2 +2 and 2 in each building.

 

[WastinTime]

In the test game I added 2 nat.wonder and I was able to build a 3rd. Is that just because of worldbuilder? or will we be able to have more than 2?

 

[Kaitzilla]

In the test game I added 2 nat.wonder and I was able to build a 3rd. Is that just because of worldbuilder? or will we be able to have more than 2?

Each of our cities can build up to 5 national wonders.

Just need 1 theater for Globe.
Or 1 university for Oxford.
Or 1 courthouse for Forbidden Palace.
Etc.

 

[WastinTime]

5 national wonders

Oh my. That makes National Park + Oxford + Nat Epic sound interesting.

...Looking for a park locations... Maybe 11 forests. Nothing ideal so far.

Q: do forests spread to tundra? I don't think so.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Oh my. That makes National Park + Oxford + Nat Epic sound interesting.

...Looking for a park locations... Maybe 11 forests. Nothing ideal so far.

Q: do forests spread to tundra? I don't think so.

I’ve been getting forest spread on tundra in tests.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@WT: Work cow+fur at p2 for 1f6h5c until crab nets? (t16 past, t23 camp, t25 monu, t30 wb2)

1h4c > 1f2h or > 1f1h1c ???

Science
1wkr
1) t17 sh past, t21 p2, t22 ho past, t28 p3 wi farm, t35 ri farm, t36 p4
2) t17 sh past, t21 p2, t23 ri farm, t26 p3, t27 ho past, t30 wi farm (cowboy), t31 p4

2wkr
3) t17 sh past, t21 p2, t22 ri farm, t23 ho past, t25 p3, t27 wi farm, t30 p4

#1 and 3 have +14c on t30, but #1 with fur has +24 to +34c. That pulls Sail back from t33 to t??

 

[WastinTime]

1h4c > 1f2h or > 1f1h1c ???

1h4c is >
This early in the game (and even later in this game -- because we don't have Stone/IND/marble/factory, etc)
h1 = 1c . Where the IND civs with resources can get 1h = 2.5c and more.
Wonder failgold is no better than building wealth (without stone/marble).

After slavery, 1f = 2h (approx), but right now, pre-granary, food is just slightly better than h or c.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Space/Time Warp

This SG seems to be an optimization of maintenance costs, city growth, resource improvement, exploration, the unknown of optimal city sites, variety of resources owned, the unknown of meeting AIs, and choice of tech path.

This is not a typical CIV optimization. And we have to tech deep into the tree.

Note:
1. NZ made the N and S offshore lands unknowable without exploration.
2. W has a non-optimal, early “trap” site.
3. E has SB blocking further exploration by land but maybe not by galley... S of SB could be a nice site not so far from our capital! Who knows?
4. We need Canal to explore N and SB-S (before OBs).

Cows City can only build so much so fast. Needs: 3 wbs for Cows, Canal and Silver, 1 galley for S, N, and SB-S, more wbs...maybe for finding Ais in any of the 4 directions.

One crucial optimization is whether to settle cities early w/o nets or later with.

Another crucial factor is finding more AIs before having to choose between Alpha and BW/IW beelines.

Finally, a Key Klarius Koncept: in any AI tech trading scenario, the various paths we might choose usually lead to the Alphabet tech bounty at about the same time. In other words, if you tech too fast, you wait for the AIs to catch up, tech a little too slowly and they catch you up. So klarius focused on building the empire.

Conclusion: My hunch is that exploration is the key to this game: finding AIs and optimal city sites asap.

So to me the question is, how? What cities do we settle and what builds do we build to find AIs and optimal city sites the fastest?

 

[LowtherCastle]

The faster we get Monument done, the faster our city pops borders and we get a +2 per turn trade route pair.
Our capital building Stonehenge for fail gold is another good reason for Mysticism fast.

Our capital completing Stonehenge would be game over.
Prophet city can only be coastal with Moai and 1 Great Prophet wonder.


We must deeply ponder what city sites we want to settle. (Can we really pass on x3 seafood? It gets us wheat at 500!)
A decent amount of on this map, but not much resource variety.
I'd hate to play a long game with 7 runt sized cities.

Fastest tech feels like Pyramids for representation civic, The Great Lighthouse, and all x3 food cities running 5 scientists in caste civic.
Would probably want to bulb Philosophy tech for the Taoism religion and +100% gpp points from pacifism civic.
Every extra religion we get adds another Monastery our cities can build for +10%


Workboat is starting to look better than a 3rd Worker ya.

Flat tundra tiles are very weird.
If they have fresh water from a river or lake, they can get cottage, farm, or workshop
If they have forest they can get forest preserve or lumber mill

A tundra tile without fresh water can only get a fort.
It can not be improved even if there is a farm next to it to help spread irrigation.
We must not chop down a flatland tundra forest in a cities' big fat cross unless it has fresh water.

bump — important edits here folks might have missed!

Our capital completing Stonehenge would be game over!!!

 

[LowtherCastle]

@WT: Work cow+fur at p2 for 1f6h5c until crab nets? (t16 past, t23 camp, t25 monu, t30 wb2)

1h4c > 1f2h or > 1f1h1c ???

Science
1wkr
1) t17 sh past, t21 p2, t22 ho past, t28 p3 wi farm, t35 ri farm, t36 p4
2) t17 sh past, t21 p2, t23 ri farm, t26 p3, t27 ho past, t30 wi farm (cowboy), t31 p4

2wkr
3) t17 sh past, t21 p2, t22 ri farm, t23 ho past, t25 p3, t27 wi farm, t30 p4

#1 and 3 have +14c on t30, but #1 with fur has +24 to +34c. That pulls Sail back from t33 to t??

This might be best in terms of having both workers at Cows for t35 border pop:

Cowboy: t16 past, t23 camp, t24 river farm(1t), t30 wi farm

Shepherd: t17 sh past, t22 ho past, t27 ri farm

 

[Kaitzilla]

I know it is extra teching, but is sushi on the table?

Might be an easy culture win with a few cathedrals and a lot of turns.

Lot of seafood on the map we can trade with AI.

 

[Mitchum]

The faster we get Monument done, the faster our city pops borders and we get a +2 per turn trade route pair.

Are we 100% sure about this? I thought trading along a river required Sailing too.

A decent amount of on this map, but not much resource variety.

From the pre-game announcement: Food is scarce, the land is tough, little grows, some animals are extinct - unable to exist in such harsh conditions.

 

[Mitchum]

Has the test game outlived its usefulness? If not, can you play it forward to T13 using your MM, LC? I can edit the map if you want.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Are we 100% sure about this? I thought trading along a river required Sailing too.



From the pre-game announcement: Food is scarce, the land is tough, little grows, some animals are extinct - unable to exist in such harsh conditions.

Yes, I am positive about the trade route.

Once a river or coastal tiles are entirely inside our borders, they function as if we had sailing.

I'm slowly coming to terms with many resources simply being missing on this map.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If we tech myst-sail it should come before Cows border expansion.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Canal City

Convince me I’m wrong. Unless you’re going the bronze working route or building Stonehenge in Cow city, I don’t see how settling canal city before you have mysticism isn’t a waste of hammers in whatever you build till then.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Stonehenge

Cows could comp it t37 (if AI doesn’t first), borders pop t39, instead of t35 with monument. Gives us 5 more 10t border pops.

T21 wb could either explore S or net Canal t32.