[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

I think the test game has a critical error: the coast tile at Profit's Crabs-E should be ocean. Your wb is late.

Won't binary research on wheel save you a beaker or two? or did you calculate that 50% doesn't have rounding issues? Any reason not to just do binary? At least 1 more turn at 0%?

Hmm. 2nd galley. I suppose we have to. But without IW coming, I don't want Lucia born. You'll have to practice birth control, LC.
Shepherd can finish 3rd fur and arrive just in time for stone.
Joan: i'd prefer she improves Science, but if you want to send her on vacation to Metal Island I'm not fighting it anymore (no promises).

 

[WastinTime]

Cows:
How does this play out....
T46-48 work farm instead of fur to grow early
T49 add 1hFur
T50-54 switch to 1fFur
T55 (grew 1t early) work 3 fur

It might get you the extra hammers you need I didn't do production test. I think it's 3 extra hammers

 

[Mitchum]

OMG, Actually, we don't lose access to stone. I'm shocked. I had 50h OF + 9 and it showed no stone (but I had pillaged horse on whip+1t)
Next turn I had 118h into Mids!!!

I just dreamt about this and was going to post it. haha. If you end turn then pillage, it appears that you don't have access to stone. But what must happen is that the stone trade cancels and then the hammers are resolved. So you end up getting the hammer bonus like you said. Sweet!

 

[Mitchum]

ARGH — how do I get my signature to work???

It works for me. I can see a link to the PPP and when I click it I'm taken to your PPP. But it's taking me to your old post #905, not the new one in post 1019.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think the test game has a critical error: the coast tile at Profit's Crabs-E should be ocean. Your wb is late.

Born t57, could even be t56. Not late.

Won't binary research on wheel save you a beaker or two? or did you calculate that 50% doesn't have rounding issues? Any reason not to just do binary? At least 1 more turn at 0%?

PITA here, finishing T49 for road graders. Also, we’re 1c shy of getting another free SH beaker (break-points at 24 and 49bpt ), so there’s a weirdness about that. But oddly, 50% here doesn’t lose a beaker to rounding. I haven’t found s solution I really like. Maybe your growth plan is it...

Hmm. 2nd galley. I suppose we have to. But without IW coming, I don't want Lucia born. You'll have to practice birth control, LC.
Shepherd can finish 3rd fur and arrive just in time for stone.

Fine. Considered that. I was sending him to farm Science.

Joan: i'd prefer she improves Science, but if you want to send her on vacation to Metal Island I'm not fighting it anymore (no promises).

S7 will have one turn to peek inland before Joan boards. Plus, the galley will remain available if Joan gets cold feet and seeks the comforts of her palace feathers.

 

[LowtherCastle]

It works for me. I can see a link to the PPP and when I click it I'm taken to your PPP. But it's taking me to your old post #905, not the new one in post 1019.

Hm. Yes, my original intention was to link it to the old one and update it. Then when the signature failed I decided just to make a new PPP. So now the link goes to the new one!

I vaguely recall having turned off my ability to see signatures years ago, and now I have no idea how to turn it back on. I don’t see my signature.

 

[LowtherCastle]

OMG, Actually, we don't lose access to stone. I'm shocked. I had 50h OF + 9 and it showed no stone (but I had pillaged horse on whip+1t)
Next turn I had 118h into Mids!!!

We lose access on whip+t0. The missing stone icon after pillaging on whip+t1 is probably an interface artifact. Zoom in and out or switch in and out of cities and it probably reappears.

 

[Mitchum]

Why is Profit doing this:

Profit City
T45-T49 Monument; forest
T50 dun; coast
T51-T52 lighthouse; coast
T53-T55 granary; forest (requires T53 Pottery)

Why put hammers into both a dun and a lighthouse? That dun turn won't be stone enhanced so it seems wasteful.

 

[Mitchum]

We lose access on whip+t0. The missing stone icon after pillaging on whip+t1 is probably an interface artifact. Zoom in and out or switch in and out of cities and it probably reappears.

I don't think we have stone while we play our turn. But, IBT, the stone deal gets canceled first and then our builds get resolved. So it doesn't look like we're getting them but we really are.

118H into a stone wonder is scary. We'll have to be sure that we don't accidentally get 120+ when it doesn't look like we will and accidentally complete SH somewhere. Although, we're hoping SH gets built before we'll have a chance to really use it.

 

[WastinTime]

Born t57, could even be t56. Not late.

I think with that ocean tile error, T57 is too late, so if you have a t56 plan. use that.

So it doesn't look like we're getting them but we really are.

Yes, we get stone access on whip+1t, but LC is saying we don't have it for whip+0t.
You and I were thinking we might lose stone for 2 turns, but it's just the one.

 

[Mitchum]

You and I were thinking we might lose stone for 2 turns, but it's just the one.

I'm still a bit confused and this could come into play on my turn so let's make sure we are all on the same page.

T0:
We have access to stone.
Whip dun/walls.
City shows 90/50 in dun +16
Trade stone + horse
City shows 90/50 in dun (because whip was stone-enhanced) and +8 (because the organic hammers are no longer stone-enhanced)
This is the turn we don't have access to stone.

T1:
Dun completes.
OF = (90-50) +8 = 48
We build the 'Mids and it shows 48 OF + 8 organic = 56 base (not stone-enhanced)
Pillage horse
City still shows 56 base (not stone-enhanced)

IBT:
Stone deal with Zara/SB is canceled

T2:
City show 112 in the 'Mids

So the only hammers that don't have access to stone are any organic hammers that we put into a stone build on T0 after we've traded stone (i.e. the 16 that became 8 after the trade on T0). On T1, it appears that we won't get the stone bonus but the deal cancels IBT before our hammers are resolved so we end up getting more hammers than the UI suggests on T1.

I thought LC was suggesting that there is a UI bug on T1 and by fiddling with the interface and/or zooming around we would see the stone-enhanced bonus hammers on T1 but I don't think this is true.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I'm still a bit confused and this could come into play on my turn so let's make sure we are all on the same page.

T0:
We have access to stone.
Whip dun/walls.
City shows 90/50 in dun +16
Trade stone + horse
City shows 90/50 in dun (because whip was stone-enhanced) and +8 (because the organic hammers are no longer stone-enhanced)
This is the turn we don't have access to stone.

T1:
Dun completes.
OF = (90-50) +8 = 48
We build the 'Mids and it shows 48 OF + 8 organic = 56 base (not stone-enhanced)
Pillage horse
City still shows 56 base (not stone-enhanced)

IBT:
Stone deal with Zara/SB is canceled

T2:
City show 112 in the 'Mids

So the only hammers that don't have access to stone are any organic hammers that we put into a stone build on T0 after we've traded stone (i.e. the 16 that became 8 after the trade on T0). On T1, it appears that we won't get the stone bonus but the deal cancels IBT before our hammers are resolved so we end up getting more hammers than the UI suggests on T1.

I thought LC was suggesting that there is a UI bug on T1 and by fiddling with the interface and/or zooming around we would see the stone-enhanced bonus hammers on T1 but I don't think this is true.

I think you must be 100% right here. I was thinking that we canceled the deal but of course we don’t, we force it to get canceled. So it’s good you tested this! Just to make sure we didn’t screw something up.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Why is Profit doing this:

Profit City
T45-T49 Monument; forest
T50 dun; coast
T51-T52 lighthouse; coast
T53-T55 granary; forest (requires T53 Pottery)

Why put hammers into both a dun and a lighthouse? That dun turn won't be stone enhanced so it seems wasteful.

Mostly because I’m brain-damaged — we can’t build duns yet. But the idea was to put one hammer in intentionally so we can get it to 49/50 hammers. Instead it will go into the lh.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think with that ocean tile error, T57 is too late, so if you have a t56 plan. use that.

The coastal error doesn’t come into play. On t 60 the culture will have expanded before the workboat moves.

 

[Mitchum]

LC, are you looking for anything specific from us before you play (e.g. unanswered questions)? Are you still working on optimizing things? Or are you simply waiting for green lights?

Green light!!

 

[WastinTime]

The coastal error doesn’t come into play. On t 60 the culture will have expanded before the workboat moves.

Ah, you are correct of course.

But the idea was to put one hammer in intentionally so we can get it to 49/50 hammers. Instead it will go into the lh.

What's the reason you're not on board with this:
Oops, nevermind, I think you are on board. This is mostly after your turnset....

Profit : T53-59 : Work forest instead of coast (for 14/60 granary)
T60-61 :crab
T62 (grow) : crab + forest 18/60 granary
T63-64 : crab + stone (26/60 granary)
T65 : Priesthood/Oracle
T70 (grow to 3) work whale
T79: (grow to 4) whip granary (crab + stone)
T80: Complete Oracle with 2 chops with zero to spare. (If I counted correctly)

 

[WastinTime]

My reason for earlier inland NE Isle exploration is in case there is a useful strategic resource

My reason for delaying NE Island is : What strategic resource would matter? Gold would be workable, but not necessary yet. Metals might be necessary if SB starts plotting war I suppose. But again, your call. I like what you have planned. Yellow light. When were you hoping to play?

 

[Mitchum]

@WT and LC

Can someone elaborate on exactly what the tradeoffs are between exploring NE Island per the PPP vs. exploring it later?

Is the difference that we only need one galley if we decide to explore it later?

I personally prefer to have 2 galleys. (Edit: after ferrying units to/from Profit and our mainland) One can be our scout to the NW and it can ferry a scouting unit or two across the channel so that we can explore by land and sea. The second one can be used to ferry units to/from NE Island/Profit and our mainland.

 

[LowtherCastle]

My reason for delaying NE Island is : What strategic resource would matter? Gold would be workable, but not necessary yet. Metals might be necessary if SB starts plotting war I suppose. But again, your call. I like what you have planned. Yellow light. When were you hoping to play?

Copper.
Marble.
By strategic I mean accelerating our priorities, Oracle specifically.

Chariots should beat ass against SH if he attacks. But he won’t, he has no hammers and he’s got no food.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@WT and LC

Can someone elaborate on exactly what the tradeoffs are between exploring NE Island per the PPP vs. exploring it later?

Is the difference that we only need one galley if we decide to explore it later?

I personally prefer to have 2 galleys. (Edit: after ferrying units to/from Profit and our mainland) One can be our scout to the NW and it can ferry a scouting unit or two across the channel so that we can explore by land and sea. The second one can be used to ferry units to/from NE Island/Profit and our mainland.

This has been my headache for the last three days. Skipping IW, I was thinking of taking Joan immediately to Stone Island and then the settler to northeast Isle on about turn 61. But then it comes back too late to get those workers back to the mainland. It’s just a major headache. I finally decided that two galleys is the best solution. There really is no good solution.