[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

Hopefully he does not have horse or bronze and is literally incapable of plotting war right now.
Dog Soldier + Chariot would be enough to start plotting with just horse I think since Dog Soldier is his axe replacement.

As you said, 'bronze [working]', not copper, is all Dog Soldiers need. Which means: DO NOT trade him horse for any reason.
Are you saying he can't plot war without another attack unit like Chariot? I didn't know that. What if he had a spear?

@MG, glad you tested. I was not aware that this fist icon would not appear. Seems like it was planned by the mapmaker.

 

[MirrorGuard]

If we aim 100% safety, go archery. An archer with dun upgrade is invincible on that forest hill 2S1E of canal. If SB dares to attack, we enjoy 200% great general point rate before GW and 300% after. That is the only way we can actively benefit from GW.
Actually I had a crazy idea when I first saw SB: chariot-rush him. Destroy road and kill reinforcement outside his city. Pillage his tiles for gold and kill units for general point. It will permanently paralyze SB, but at a quite high cost.

 

[WastinTime]

Destroy road and kill reinforcement outside his city. Pillage his tiles for gold and kill units

I toyed with this same idea, but I'm not sure we won't have better uses for him. Tech trades, TRs, Resource trades. He could spam missionaries to our cities, etc. There's no way any team is getting that Ivory, so I'm assuming SB has a 2nd one and we get it in trade. Possibly same for gold resource.

hat is the only way we can actively benefit from GW.

One small other benefit is the GPP boost. Maybe gets us Biology 1-2t sooner.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Are you saying he can't plot war without another attack unit like Chariot? I didn't know that. What if he had a spear?

Ya.
With Dog Soldier, all SB needs to start plotting war is either a Spearman or a Chariot being able to be constructed in his capital. (According to my knowledge)
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/a-proud-history-of-failed-deity-games.644656/#post-15425978

If we get the gold, we could use the option of pillaging the Cow fur road to the NW. Frees up many wkr-ts. Or even without the gold...

Also retains the possibility of having a pillage road option On Cow deer until Sci-5000 .

Pillaging Fur would save a lot of worker turns, but then we'd need another fur pretty quick.

I now favor the extended Cow City deer road as a permanent solution to our frequent gift of stone and later even marble that you were advocating earlier.
The Dun trick can be repeated with 39/100 Castles with 2-pop whips, and the overflow can be 60 raw instead of 50!
Might even use it on Cathedrals.
Here is the 100 road.​

Spoiler :

And here is the 500 road​

Spoiler :

We have the Workers to make it happen, and then we don't have to worry about pillaging a food tile or happiness tile and having to quickly rebuild it.
Plus it will help get gems online faster once we get Iron Working.
We can also hook up all of our Fur and Silver resources for trading.

Just have to pillage 1S1W of gems and build 3 more roads once Science City is close to 500​

 

[Kaitzilla]

I want to play 1 more turn in about 9 hours from now with the final PPP 1.3

The rest of my turnset can be Sunday unless we can come to a consensus on whether to leave the Settler up there or not.
1) If there is a fish
2) If there are 2 clam/crab up there
3) If there is 1clam/crab up there
4) There is no seafood

If we can make a decision now, then I can play all 9 turns tonight.

I vote
1) Leave him there, we want that city spot
2) Leave him there, we want that city spot
3) ???, not sure
4) Send him home on the galley

 

[WastinTime]

all SB needs to start plotting war is either a Spearman or a Chariot

So now, my prediction is that NZ did not want one team to get a random surprise attack early while other teams get off easy.
Therefore: SB will not have metal or horse. So no spear, chariot, or swords.
The only way a team gets screwed early is if they screw themselves by trading horse.
This is another reason why I think we're supposed to be tempted to trade our horse for Ivory.

Green light. Settler leaves if no seafood. In all other cases, he says, but probably doesn't settle too soon.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Pillaging Fur would save a lot of worker turns, but then we'd need another fur pretty quick.

To be clear, I’m now talking about Shepherd roading plainshillfur then Cows-3n2w, later pillaging the road. Only requires 1 warrior and 1 wkr to re-establish the furs in 1t.

5 wkt-t now, if we can survive without the fur T77.

I now favor the extended Cow City deer road as a permanent solution

to our frequent gift of stone and later even marble that you were advocating earlier.
The Dun trick can be repeated with 39/100 Castles with 2-pop whips, and the overflow can be 60 raw instead of 50!
Might even use it on Cathedrals.
Here is the 100 road.

​

Spoiler :

And here is the 500 road​

Spoiler :

We have the Workers to make it happen, and then we don't have to worry about pillaging a food tile or happiness tile and having to quickly rebuild it.
Plus it will help get gems online faster once we get Iron Working.
We can also hook up all of our Fur and Silver resources for trading.

Just have to pillage 1S1W of gems and build 3 more roads once Science City is close to 500​

I have been in favor of the 500 plan from the start. This is something we could establish now if we can spare the worker turns or later if we use the above 5 worker-turn plan.

 

[WastinTime]

or later if we use the above 5 worker-turn plan.

yeah, we can just pillage the road and re-shape it later.

3) If there is 1clam/crab up there

I think 7 food + gold is about as good as any other site we have. And we get the island TRs. I think we'd settle this.

You forgot about :
#5) Off-shore, wet corn. I'd settle that too.

 

[Kaitzilla]

To be clear, I’m now talking about Shepherd roading plainshillfur then Cows-3n2w, later pillaging the road. Only requires 1 warrior and 1 wkr to re-establish the furs in 1t.

Oh, I see it now.
Yes, another road outside our borders.

I will punt the decision to the next turnset.
We won't have to decide on fur or deer roads until T66 when the Silver City worker is free.

 

[LowtherCastle]

SB Analysis T55

The mystery: on T0 SB had 6 score points and 4K power points too many. One basic tech gives tge +6 score, what gives the power?

Tl;dr: Hunting is probably the tech, for +2K power. SB may have started with a mystery unit for +2K power (warrior or galley).

Careful study shows SB has the following:
Fishing
Agriculture
Mining
Sailing
Pottery
Bronze working
Mystery tech (hunting?)
4 archers

More conclusions:
0. SB did not start with AH because we got no bonus from it.
1. SB Does not have copper or he would have improved it. I’m fairly sure he doesn’t have AH so he doesn’t know if he has horses yet. I doubt he has Ivory, he’d have camped it.
2. Poverty Point 1whipped a wb on T49 and a granary on T54!
3. Cahokia is building another settler.

My hunch:
NZ stuck either a galley or a warrior in AI Land so he’d meet them. I found a DanF5771 post from Kakumeika saying AIs might not put EPs on others they know. My hunch is we get negmods with all AIs SB knows if we DOW SB. NZ’s evil plot to screw our attitudes...

 

[WastinTime]

Doesn't he have to have hunting to start with scouts? Well, at least in games that haven't been tinkered with.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Green light from me to play another turn now.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Doesn't he have to have hunting to start with scouts? Well, at least in games that haven't been tinkered with.

True enough. Aligns to my conclusions and leaves open the mystery of the 2K power.

 

[LowtherCastle]

PR T76

These guys don’t second guess themselves. T71 +6K looking like Math. We’ll keep our eyes on their culture graph...

 

[LowtherCastle]

PR’s culture graph went from 17 to 25 on T77.

 

[WastinTime]

PR’s culture graph went from 17 to 25 on T77.

Oracle?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Oracle?

Not necessarily. But the CS slingshot is +13 and SH seems unlikely but possible. GW is only 2.

My money’s on MC or Currency slingshot. Power is +4K = MC.

They seemed to finish Math according to our schedule, maybe they ran out of gold. Same could happen to us. Gonna be exciting...

Earlier forges with +3 happies is an interesting alternative to CS. Good luck to them! Meanwhile, I estimate they’ve also got 4 libraries so probably a full complement of granaries too.

 

[Mitchum]

Green light, Kait. I'm not 100% onboard with settle the city with only 1 seafood but 2 or more food resources, yes. If we have to settle on the gold to get the two seafood, would that be worth it??

 

[Kaitzilla]

I will play 1 more turn so we have solid data.

Leaving a settler up there outside our borders might cost us money.

Only change is that I will position the Canal workboat to net the northern seafood for next turn.

That way we have options if gold has double fish.

 

[WastinTime]

Earlier forges with +3 happies is an interesting alternative to CS. Good luck to them!

IIRC, @ZPV would always say: Forges...
For an IND civ, yes, but 120 is too expensive this early.