[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

Rex is the man for the tundraMine. He should not return to Science. Hopefully we didn't waste too many turns... Let's see....Looks like just 1 turn in the wrong direction and 1 turn to reverse that.
He could put a partial road on Wheat so the turn is not a complete waste.. Or is there any need to chop Wheat-NE? Probably not with math so close.

A Tundramine in Canal is a bad idea right now.
We have that tundraforesthill if we need something almost as good.

Agreed. I’d like to emphasize and amend that. Once the oracle is secure chops should go directly into stone wonders, not preparing for max overflow, which is simply a waste. The only exception might be for a granary.

Only 1 math chop can fit into Stonehenge.

Right, fail gold. I'm just on city development max food autopilot most of the time.
Mmm, I guess Clam City doesn't really have to have a fast border pop to contribute.
Plains hill mine isn't bad for fail gold whips.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I would like to repeat my desire for Canal to get a tundraMine.

Folks! Worked mines are our only chance for gold and copper, that we currently know of.

Let’s plan to build and work mines everywhere. Not necessarily asap...

 

[WastinTime]

A Tundramine in Canal is a bad idea right now.
We have that tundraforesthill if we need something almost as good.

You have a point, but doesn't Rex have nothing better to do? and isn't he (almost) already there?

 

[Kaitzilla]

You have a point, but doesn't Rex have nothing better to do? and isn't he (almost) already there?

It takes 1 turn to get onto the hill, 5 turns to make the mine, and 1 turn to get off.
7 Worker turns for +1!
I can't calculate how long that would take to pay off compared to forest chopping.

Keep in mind those 2 jungle gems will suck up our Workers as soon as we get Iron Working, so we need to chop, farm, and road now while we still can.

Our hero Galley can pick up a Worker from Clams T86 and deposit them on that Canal City hill T87 to mine.
Then take it back to Clams fast when it is done.
No absurd walking.

Or Canal City can try for the 2-pop Worker whip when we have more food than we can handle and get a big 40 overflow and that worker can mine the hill and improve Canal City.

 

[WastinTime]

You want to preserve a forest for later use? hmm

Not really saving forests, just piling on failgold. 2 chops in a granary is building something without any whipping.
Same goes for chopping monument (or wb...I'm looking at you Whales -- don't chop that wb. whip it). A chop is 60g. Do I want to spend 60g for +2f a few turns early? not usually.

7 Worker turns for +1!
I can't calculate how long that would take to pay off compared to forest chopping.

Ok, I prefer chopping for good reasons too, but Rex is currently planning about 10 turns for a farm +1f
If you want to chop into 2Clams T80 MIds, I'm on board.

That is just hope and dreams.

Maybe not Confu in 2Clams, but there's a chance we run Caste (artist) for 5 turns if we get a free switch with Bureau and a free switch back with Representation.

 

[WastinTime]

@Kaitzilla , you're definitely the expert on the micro right now. Some of my ideas I'm throwing out won't fit well (like probably that tundramine), but I'm gonna take a closer look at what Canal could do with that 3h tile. And if we really saw the benefit of that monument-chop to get 2nd clam online sooner, I can get behind that too, but I wanna weigh the tradeoff of 60g vs +2f sooner in 2Clams and in Whales.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Ok, I prefer chopping for good reasons too, but Rex is currently planning about 10 turns for a farm +1f

The original, original plan was to get capital to Size 9 as fast as possible, then all the farms would, through a large amount of worker turns, turn into cottages as fast as possible and we would have a glorious bureau capital.
Science City would work Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, x3 plainsrivercottage, and 2 gem mines with no growth all the way to Sushi.
But now we need the x2 scientists, so the farms are not urgent anymore and we will just have to limp to a large capital.
Working 1 scientist instead of Rice makes me cry, but I dread missing Oracle so much.

@Kaitzilla , you're definitely the expert on the micro right now. Some of my ideas I'm throwing out won't fit well (like probably that tundramine), but I'm gonna take a closer look at what Canal could do with that 3h tile. And if we really saw the benefit of that monument-chop to get 2nd clam online sooner, I can get behind that too, but I wanna weigh the tradeoff of 60g vs +2f sooner in 2Clams and in Whales.

I like fail gold too, but having runt cities because all we did was chop into Pyramids that won't get cashed out until T100 is not good either.

No huge hurry.
Go ahead and test the tundramine and 2 workboat production vs. failgold please.
You are the tech speed expert, which is what this game essentially is.
​

Maybe not Confu in 2Clams, but there's a chance we run Caste (artist) for 5 turns if we get a free switch with Bureau and a free switch back with Representation.

Oh ya, Caste T79.
I forgot about that option.
​

Can we come to a consensus on the next 3 turns?
Knowing if we have Stonehenge fail gold coming will help a lot and Mirrorguard's eyes might be glazing over if we don't pitch in and say what we want.

I vote yes on Settling Clam City with the workboat turning around.
I vote yes on leaving Warrior 2 on deer.

If Iron is up near Horse+Silver City, we just have to conquer the world with Muskets + Trebs or get Rifling for Infantry if things go badly.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I vote Present on settling 2clam. Green light on playing 3t when you’ns agree.

I’d like to see minimal chopping and maximal maxOF whipping into wonders

 

[MirrorGuard]

Has there been a consensus on settling at 2 clam site? At first I preferred 2 clam too. But when I saw that -1 health in silver city, I thought that extra horse at 2silver may buy us some health resources, if deer and silver doesn't sell well?
For the monument whip in whale city, It's 9f28g4h for 58g before a work boat nets second seafood. It's a pre-granary whip so not very lucrative compared to whipping elsewhere with granary.…unless we are short of cash for math
As for the worker micro, are we switching to bureau& caste for bulb education?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Has there been a consensus on settling at 2 clam site? At first I preferred 2 clam too. But when I saw that -1 health in silver city, I thought that extra horse at 2silver may buy us some health resources, if deer and silver doesn't sell well?
For the monument whip in whale city, It's 9f28g4h for 58g before a work boat nets second seafood. It's a pre-granary whip so not very lucrative compared to whipping elsewhere with granary.…unless we are short of cash for math
As for the worker micro, are we switching to bureau& caste for bulb education?

We are close to consensus, but need your and @Mitchum's opinion 1st since it is such a big deal to settle our final city.
Might even change WT's and my mind.

Canceling our crab gift to Sitting Bull won't help our health problems in Silver City, but cancelling our sheep gift T74 should fix it.

Thanks for working out the math on Monument whipping Mirrorguard.
I think we are all very pleased to do the whip and gain +30 for 9 food and 4 hammers.

Bureau+Caste T79 is now looking very likely, but we need to check if crucial whips can get done in time.

 

[WastinTime]

Can we come to a consensus on the next 3 turns?

Rex needs a job first. I'll try to explore his options, or another idea might come in. What's your current vote there?

9f28g4h for 58g before a work boat nets second seafood.

Could you refresh me on Whales. When/where is it's workboat? is that the one at cows that we are re-routing?
How does your 9f28g4h calculation come about? (edit: nm, i think I get it)

 

[Kaitzilla]

Rex needs a job first. I'll try to explore his options, or another idea might come in. What's your current vote there?

If we do Clams City, then I think Rex should prechop, put 1 chop into Granary T74, chop into Mids, build a 4 hammer mine, and then keep chopping into Mids.

It will have good natural production later to build its own wonders.

 

[WastinTime]

T69 - 2-pop Whip The Great Wall; Crab, Clam
T70 - Lighthouse; Crab, Clam
T71 - T72 Lighthouse; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam
T73 - 2-pop Whip Lighthouse; Crab, Clam
T74 - Library; Crab, Clam
T75 - T76 Library; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam
T77 - Library; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam, Coast

Canal City
Rex's TundraMine arrives T71. Perfect timing! Canal grows to size 3. I think the LH has 5 hammers?
I'd wanna try
T71 - T73: LIghthouse; crab, clam, mine
(17/60)
Then either 2 turns at 6h or 3 turns at 4h....
T74 - T75: LIghthouse; crab, clam, mine (+either forested tundra? or coast)
T76 or T77 : LH (29/60), 2-whip
T77 or T78 : Mids

I like how this looks. Just depends if the mine for 2Clams needs Rex.

 

[WastinTime]

Shepherd could manage the phMine at 2Clams just 2 turns later than ideal.
This assumes Phillip can cover Shepherd's previous gemsRoad duty, but since he is no longer going to chop Oracle, he can probably fit that in.
Leaving Rex open to do Canal's tundraMine.

Holes in that plan?

 

[WastinTime]

Another couple things about the tundraMine:

Returning to Canal could be a while. We're there. Let's get the work done. We can always get the farm in Science with workers buzzing around.

There are cases where we'd work the tundramine and the tundraforest for 6h. I already showed a case where we might do this for 2t.
The tundraforest, horrible as it is, is valued at 4c. Better than a scientist rt now, so if we have to work it a couple turns, it's ok.
Remember, this is a city with +11 food! We can use more than 1 zero-food tile to work. (two tundra mines?)

4h is >> 3h because you can get 28h in 7 turns + 1 turn for Wonder + 1 turn @1h to grow back.
An 8-9 turn cycle is about right. Anger builds a bit, but you burn that off when you take a caste break.
The 2h tundraForest just doesn't fit the bill. Hammers are too slow.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Canal City
Rex's TundraMine arrives T71. Perfect timing! Canal grows to size 3. I think the LH has 5 hammers?
I'd wanna try
T71 - T73: LIghthouse; crab, clam, mine
(17/60)
Then either 2 turns at 6h or 3 turns at 4h....
T74 - T75: LIghthouse; crab, clam, mine (+either forested tundra? or coast)
T76 or T77 : LH (29/60), 2-whip
T77 or T78 : Mids

I like how this looks. Just depends if the mine for 2Clams needs Rex.

Without Stonehenge gold, this micro will break the bank.

Oracle chop will slip to T79.

 

[WastinTime]

Without Stonehenge gold, this micro will break the bank.

Oracle chop will slip to T79.

I'm willing to gamble that Henge gold comes in time to support the canal micro. Oracle slips in the unlikely event no gold comes. We could tame it down my not working the 2h tundraforest. It was just an idea if it made the mids turn sync with other city plans.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If we tech Mono and switch to OR, we can chain-maxOF missionaries, putting 75+h OF into Mids or Moai each time. Spreads Confu faster for Pacifism later and doesn’t require Monastery.

 

[LowtherCastle]

There’s no point in settling 2clams more than one turn before the clam nets, right?

 

[Mitchum]

I think 2clams is the right call. I'm not close enough to the MM to have an opinion on the worker micro but I agree with WT that we'll always have workers around the capital to do work there. Not so much with Canal so I think a mine would be useful there if we can sneak it in. Would be cool to chop the two forests to the SE before SB's culture takes them too but I assume Rex has more pressing duties after the mine.