Sgotm18

[lymond]

GB - it is not about BUG/BULL. It is about BUFFY. I think BUG/BULL is fine, but BUFFY has never been updated - it's several versions behind. Plus, it could use a little tuning.

BUFFY is also used quite frequently for HOF. It IS the HOF mod.

 

[BLubmuz]

CIV is still played by many people who do not like Civ 5 (like me, BTW).
Like Civ3 is still played even if i think CIV is far better, it has its appeal.

That said, a new BUFFY doesn't affect only this competition, but also the HoF and the BotM.

For what i know and guess about those "unaltered gameplay" mods, i don't think it's a great problem to merge the new BUG/BULL with BUFFY. The big work was to merge BUG/BULL with the old HoF mod, but now the road should be open and plain.

It's just a question of time and wish. If many people will ask for that i think that the modders can do it quickly. IMO.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

How about an inland sea map, with the human isolated on a central island needing astronomy to reach the AI, space as the victory condition, no resources for the human, and each AI with a different collection of resources? Kind of a reverse donut map.

Weird victory conditions and restrictions are good too. I remember the SGOTM where the human had to help Gandhi reach space, and a Realms Beyond scenario where the human started with all the forest and recycling techs and wasn't allowed to chop forests or jungles.

 

[BLubmuz]

Weird victory conditions and restrictions are good too. I remember the SGOTM where the human had to help Gandhi reach space, and a Realms Beyond scenario where the human started with all the forest and recycling techs and wasn't allowed to chop forests or jungles.

I still remeber that game.
But it was tied to luck. In our game Carthage became a monster and lauched far before India reched the Modern era. Others have had different luck, but remains the fact that it's tied to randomness, far more than huts or events.

 

[Folket]

It was up to you to prevent Carthage to launch it's space ship. As far as I can tell the game was not decided by luck at all. The winning team had the best strategies, starting early to feed Gandhi with important wonders and manipulating him to trade for the techs needed late game. Razing cities that was to slow at building components so they would be built faster somewhere else.

I think that game had very good victory conditions.

 

[BLubmuz]

It was up to you to prevent Carthage to launch it's space ship.

Probably a knight rush against tanks could have been successful. Hannibal has rifles when we has barely maces. We were attacked too early by the mongols and some mistake didn't help at all. We fed Gandhi with good cities and migrated on another continent.

Hannibal even gave us some tech for free without need to ask.

True, we were a team of not so good players (me included at the time) but Hannibal became a real monster even before we met him. At that point there was nothing to do.

 

[Seraiel]

I'd also wish for a new version of BUFFY.

 

[Folket]

Probably a knight rush against tanks could have been successful. Hannibal has rifles when we has barely maces. We were attacked too early by the mongols and some mistake didn't help at all. We fed Gandhi with good cities and migrated on another continent.

Hannibal even gave us some tech for free without need to ask.

True, we were a team of not so good players (me included at the time) but Hannibal became a real monster even before we met him. At that point there was nothing to do.

A run away AI on the other continent is never easy and it is not obvious to me that the problem was the variant. I do believe all players here now would be able to handle monarch even if an AI becomes very strong on another continent. I would rather have the game create unique challenges then the map created so that some decisions are right and wrong and you won't know before you make them.

That is why I want monarch/emperor, standard map and very difficult variants.

 

[kcd_swede]

A run away AI on the other continent is never easy and it is not obvious to me that the problem was the variant. I do believe all players here now would be able to handle monarch even if an AI becomes very strong on another continent. I would rather have the game create unique challenges then the map created so that some decisions are right and wrong and you won't know before you make them.

That is why I want monarch/emperor, standard map and very difficult variants.

I promise you several new challenges you have never encountered in any xOTM. But I think its going to have to be IMM/EMP to be challenging while still keeping it a game of civ where good civ strategy will be the key to survival good finish.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

From seriously considering Deity, we are now down to Immortal or even Emperor? I hope we don't go back to Emperor level. If we don't challenge ourselves with higher difficulty levels, are we really improving. All teams winning SGOTM-17 proves that Immortal is not a stretch for any team, given an appropriately designed scenario and map. I hope that SGOTM-18 will be at least Immortal difficulty level. The scenario and map can be designed to minimize the chance of losing. Reducing difficulty level is not the only way to do this.

Still hoping for a Mediaevil Era start.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[LowtherCastle]

To pick the difficulty level arbitrarily without knowing the scenario makes no sense to me. By most accounts, deity routinely requires special techniques to win at all. While that is one sort of challenge, it's hardly representative of CIV in general. A wise mapmaker will pick the difficulty depending on the specific scenario and considering that there are many levels of players that we as a group encourage to participate in SGOTMs and independent of any arbitrary considerations.

 

[kcd_swede]

From seriously considering Deity, we are now down to Immortal or even Emperor? I hope we don't go back to Emperor level. If we don't challenge ourselves with higher difficulty levels, are we really improving. All teams winning SGOTM-17 proves that Immortal is not a stretch for any team, given an appropriately designed scenario and map. I hope that SGOTM-18 will be at least Immortal difficulty level. The scenario and map can be designed to minimize the chance of losing. Reducing difficulty level is not the only way to do this.

Still hoping for a Mediaevil Era start.

Sun Tzu Wu

I am leaning towards IMM. My own experience as a player is that the step up from EMP to IMM is not a big one.

Spoiler :

The challenges being constructed will not be more manageable at EMP anyhow.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I promise you several new challenges you have never encountered in any xOTM. But I think its going to have to be IMM/EMP to be challenging while still keeping it a game of civ where good civ strategy will be the key to survival good finish.

Sounds like a novel starting era for one. That gives Kaku a distinct advantage, since they're all HOFers. They need the help, of course...

 

[kcd_swede]

Sounds like a novel starting era for one. That gives Kaku a distinct advantage, since they're all HOFers. They need the help, of course...

Staff will not consciously try to play into one or another team's strengths. We want games where finding the right balance is more important than mastering one game aspect. We don't always succeed,

Spoiler :

because you guys are all so much smarter than we tend to expect of you.

 

[Frederiksberg]

My ideas for a more fun SGOTM:

• Create a thread where people watching the SGOTM can post about the developments. Map makers could also comment here.
• Put some deadlines in the game to ensure that no team lags behind. Say 1st month T80, 2nd month T130, 3rd month Done.
• After each deadline publish some stats for each team.
• Make shorter games, maximum 3 months.
• Consider making the teams smaller. Most teams have only 3-5 active players anyway.

Good luck with SGOTM18

 

[Gumbolt]

Smaller teams can be an issue as we saw this game. If 2-3 players go awol the game is played by 1-2 players only. Hardly a team game. You would need a very dedicated small who had no real life dragging them away from their pc.

Generally 4 months should be ample if teams stay together. I always thought point of these game is so teams can work together and focus more on micro. A 3 month game may force teams to play faster and inevitably rush some turns. Maybe less testing too.

Some speed rules are not a bad thing I guess. Of course some teams will finish in 170 turns and others in 250+ turns. So hard to put too many complete x turns by this date. I liked the 100 turns in 2 month rule before.

 

[LowtherCastle]

How about selecting team captains from the previous SG, after people have signed up, and then letting them pick their teammates, one by one in reverse order of finish from SG17. That ought to level the playing field.

Staff will not consciously try to play into one or another team's strengths. We want games where finding the right balance is more important than mastering one game aspect.

I knoooow that. But now that you said that, you let the cat out of the bag. The next SG will be Ragnar on a small immortal Medieval tilted axis map at Quick speed

.

 

[neilmeister]

How about selecting team captains from the previous SG, after people have signed up, and then letting them pick their teammates, one by one in reverse order of finish from SG17. That ought to level the playing field.

No thanks, while I do very much want to medal, I wan't to do it with my mates. Most teams have good friendships at the core and that's why a lot of people keep playing.

 

[LowtherCastle]

No thanks, while I do very much want to medal, I wan't to do it with my mates. Most teams have good friendships at the core and that's why a lot of people keep playing.

Expand your horizons. Make new friends.

Of course, I understand what you're saying. To me it goes even farther. There are some people I enjoy playing with more than others, having not only played on three different teams, but MW morphed from one to a few other teams as well.

 

[Fippy]

My ideas for a more fun SGOTM:

• Create a thread where people watching the SGOTM can post about the developments. Map makers could also comment here.
• Put some deadlines in the game to ensure that no team lags behind. Say 1st month T80, 2nd month T130, 3rd month Done.
• After each deadline publish some stats for each team.
• Make shorter games, maximum 3 months.
• Consider making the teams smaller. Most teams have only 3-5 active players anyway.

Good luck with SGOTM18

Lots of good ideas, i esp. echo the one about smaller teams.
I think it would be better if we can choose how many players we want/need with a minimum of..maybe 4?

If you are worried about not enuf balance if some players do more turns..well all i can say, this whole system was never balanced with Teams like PD or Kaku vs. smaller ones who get random sign ups added.
So that counter wouldn't make much sense for me.