SGOTM4 - Team Ivan

[dcstevez]

Ok, I'm up next. I'll play in the morning. So long as we're diligent we can prevent them sending settlers with a mobile blockade of three warriors. I'll switch Carthage to library and maximize research to get republic as fast as possible. I'll also prioritize a trireme to contact other civs...

Re: Mapmaking. I've read some war academy articles claiming that you should never sell your map to other civs and others claiming that you should do it every turn. I tend to decide what to do based on the situation... such as trying not to sell my map while I know how to get somewhere important like other civs or an empty island.

This is a ways off, but are any of you playing this on PTW? It really frustrates me that vanilla makes every civ get monotheism.

 

[TheNemesis666]

we're all playing vanilla. (saves for vanilla and PTW are not compatible)

 

[I. Larkin]

Remind again:
Build trade route and trade lux to Rome for Lump sum.Will help to avoid war..
If Romans get MMking we should think about another tacticks to block there settelment.

 

[dcstevez]

I've played my turns. Rome isn't building an internal road network so we can't trade them lux yet.

1250: eot change carthage to build library

1225: culture expands from leptis connecting to utica revealing roman warriors moving north. Move workers. Micromanage carthage for a little extra trade and shield

IBT, viking city of Nadaros completes colossus

1200: Change Utica to TGL as pre-build for lighthouse. MM Carthage. Science to 50%, Mapmaking in 1 turn.

1175: Complete Mapmaking, start philosophy (6 turns) science at 100%.

Carthage is size 6. Adjust luxury to 10% = 2gpt = extra trade carthage gets from 6th citizen. Need more workers for more development. MicroManage Carthage to finish library in 2 turns. Will slow city growth by 6 food while saving 9 shields.

Mapmaking plus 123 gold not enough for CoL from Romans.
Change Theveste to build galley in 1 turn (sorry if you wanted library first)

1150: Trireme complete, start library in Theveste

1125: Carthage completes library, start worker. MM back to normal

1100: Carthage completes worker, start hoplite, move worker to utica

Leptis completes barracks, start hoplite
Carthage is size 5. Science to 100%, philosophy still 3 turns away

1075: MM carthage for gold - growth in 1 turn

1050: Carthage is size 6 - set lux to 10% - cost ratio same as before
Science set to 10%, philosophy in 1 turn - just missed shaving a turn.

Trireme moves into Roman waters.

Rome has discovered Mapmaking, cant' trade maps (see special rules)
Rome wants 17 gpt + 108 gold for CoL

IBT apologize to rome for trireme

1025: Finish Philosophy. Give Rome philosophy, 59 gold and 6 gpt for CoL. I tried to balance gpt vs lump sum to get a good deal while ensuring that Rome won't attack us. pure gpt would have been 10gpt.

Hoplite finishes in Carthage, start worker.

Start chopping unworked forest at Theveste to speed library.
Roman warrior starts moving south (I never spoke to rome about their wandering warrior to avoid upsetting them).

Science to 90% =Republic in 22 turns and -10gpt.

1000: Worker complete in Carthage, start hoplite
lux to 0%, science still at 90% = republic in 23 turns. Hopefully trireme finds other civs in 6 turns and makes some money. Alternativelly, if we can start selling spices to Rome soon we can make some of that up.

I think we should all make sure to check out the special rules for this game again. Specifically, the trireme is moving differently than in a normal vanilla game, moving faster when off shore. This is the first time I've played a game with differential ship movement...

I've sent a second worker to help hook up ivory so that we can allow our cities to go to size 6.

 

[AdrianE]

dcstevez

I'm on a macintosh so PTW is not a viable option. It does means that we have to be better than the PTW players by at least 12 turns in any science race just to keep even.

I think Greece is the only scientific AI civ in this game, so its not such a big issue.

Edit: there are actually several scientific civs. We will be hurt by the free tech ptw vrs vanilla issue unless m-b changed some civ traits.

 

[mad-bax]

For this game the only normally scientific civ that has had the trait removed is Babylon. This is the same as in the original GOTM28 and not something I did. This is unfair on the 1.29f players I know

If it makes you feel better, I am working on a mechanism for removing this advantage for PTW players, without taking scientific civs out of the game. Unfortunately these things take time.

 

[rrau]

got it....

 

[rrau]

Preturn (1000bc)

Well it puzzled me for a minute that our Spartan Hoplites are red/orange. For a second I thought we had Roman legionaries in a couple of our cities

We only have 58g in our treasury so we aren't going to be able to sustain research at 90% at -8gpt for very many turns

ibt: a barb galley rows into sight

turn 1 (975bc)

MM Utica to mined hill for Lighthouse in 16 instead of 18 - slowed growth from 2 turns to 4 turns
Galley ended in Roman waters

ibt: galley survived barb galley with loss of one hp; Leptis Magnua spartan => courthouse as is losing 4 shields to corruption
Roman warrior enters our territory on his way home

turn 2 (950bc)

galley ends turn still in Roman waters
adjust lux slider to 10%, keeping research at 90. we have 42g with -10gpt and Republic due in 18

ibt: Carthage spartan => 1 turn worker

turn 3 (925bc)

galley finally ends a turn in neutral waters

ibt: Roman warrior leaves our territory

turn 4 (900bc)

galley ends turn next to a barb galley

ibt: galley survives, but only has 1hp left, our domestic advisor warns about the sad state of our treasury

turn 5 (875bc)

Galley sees coast in the distance
MM Utica from Lighthouse in 12 to Lighthouse in 10 (size 6 and no growth right now)
Ivory is hooked up - was able to take lux slider to 0
Still can't trade Lux's with Rome. Rome is up at least CB and HBR

ibt:zzz

turn 6 (850bc)

Galley finds a one tile mountain isle

ibt: Carthage spartan =>

turn 7 (825bc)

not much

turn 8 (800bc)

start mining the sheep hill so it will be ready for the Republic switch

turn 9 (775bc)

galley heads back to mainland and ends turn in Roman waters

ibt

barb comes from out of the NE corner of our island
Carthage spartan => Great Library as place holder as we can't support more units right now. Maybe we should disband some of our regular warriors and replace them with better units

Theveste library => harbor (if you switch to a galley, it would waste the forest chop on a galley, so if you switch to a galley please assign the workers another task and save the forest chop for a city improvement)

turn 10 (750bc)

Spartan defeats barb, still doesn't sight camp
Spartan reinforcement sent towards NE

Treasury 18g, Lux 10%, Sci 50% for Republic in 19 at -1gpt. However our gpt deal with Rome should end sometime in the next few turns so hopefully will be able to increase sci rate

Firaxis score 230; Jason 305

>>>THE SAVE<<<

 

[AdrianE]

Differential naval movement means that your suicide galleys (usually) only need to survive 1 turn at sea. These galleys have 6 movement points (coast costs 3, sea 2, ocean 1). You can cross a lot of open water in 1 turn.

Which directions should we send suicide galleys? I'm thinking straight west from Theveste (where we build them). would be the easiest.

Map and contact trading would be pushed out to late midlle age techs. Check the original c\game announcement page for details of these changes.

I'll be off line for the weekend so good luck to those who play.

 

[dcstevez]

Thanks Adrian, I wasn't finding that kind of explanation on the site.

I took a look at RRau's save and it seems we'll be finishing the Lighthouse in 5 turns (very nice). Utica could then pop out a galley in 3 turns. In the mean time, Theveste should be switched back to build another galley... we could either make use of the chop for that or stop the chop since I'm not sure we really want to chop those trees anyway.

Sidenote: We should not have chopped the forest in the tundra. Forested and roaded that spot produced 1 food, 2 shields and 2 trade. With the mine it produces 1 food 1 shield and 2 trade. It's a long term loss, plus the lost worker time.

So back to the boats. I'm expecting that during the next 10 turns we should get a new boat on the west coast and the east and their movement should be increased to 7 by the lighthouse. I think our current nearly dead galley should head back to the tiny island and scout as best it can until the lighthouse is finished at which point we should start sending suicides west, east and that one south. I've attached some pictures which I think show possible routes based on the math Adrian showed us.

I have the current boat returning south based on the idea of a new boat coming out of utica. If you decide to build a library first then that idea would change and the current boat should probably finish circling the island.

If we can make contact soon and get ceremonial burial we can start building some temples to allow increased growth and culture expansion.

 

[AdrianE]

Here is the link to the GOTM features page for this GOTM

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm28_features.shtml

Note that we have a conquests style republic government features. Can we afford the 2gpt maintenance for units?
Would monarchy be preferable?

 

[dcstevez]

We can definitely afford Republic... and the decision has basically already been made. By the time we get to Republic 3 of our cities should be size 7 and it won't be long after that the other two build aquaducts and likewise grow. Then we should have a nice number of units permitted and the extra commerce from being a republic should more than offset the extra unit costs. I don't think we're planning on attacking anyone for a while yet so we don't have to worry about building up an oversized military until our economy is really humming. We just have to keep Rome happy with Per Turn deals and make sure our military doesn't get so small that we look like a juicy target. We should try to upgrade our warriors in the next 30 or so turns either to swordsmen or by disbanding in favor of horsemen.

 

[I. Larkin]

Certanly, we can afford Republic. Moreover, this is only option with 5CC. The real problem is politics with Romans. AFAIK, gpt deals, gifts, RoP, Peace renegotiation, etcs., do not Guaranty against sneak attacks or demand for tribute. We should be ready for war at any moment. We have to mantain relible defence line AND have some archers to attack Antium (and destroy).
BTW, got file, will write more when look at it.

 

[I. Larkin]

I'v played til 530BC .
Will send turlog soon.
Ivan.

 

[I. Larkin]

0 Preturn:
Change production at Carthage and Leptis to Granary, set Lux 0%, Mkmg Carthage.
1 730 BC Got 25 from barb camp. Set sci 80%. Send workers to build road Pompei-Rome. (why nobody did it before?)
2 710 BC Theveste -> Galley, Leptis-> Wall. Kelts build Oracle.
3 690 BC
4 670 BC Nothing
5 650BC Utica Lighthouse-> Library, mkmg for growth. Theveste Galley->Harbor. send Galleys West and east.
6 630 BC East Galley spot Vikings. Trade CoL for Math+1g. West Galley spot Indians. We up CoL, Philosophy, Math, Literature, they up CB and HBR. Trade Math to Romans for 251 gold. Sci 100%.
7 610 BC Embassy in Deli 41g (2 spear+1 net turn, 1 fur+1 Horse), West Galley spot Persian. Our Army strong vs Vikings, Indians, Persian and average vs Rome. Trade CoL to Persian for 13 gold, they have Philosophy. Trade Philosophy to Indians for HBR+15 gold, Spices to Rome for CB+72 gold. (All they have). Set Galley in Hippo and Temple at Carthege.
8 590 BC East Galley found Babs and Germany Border. Lux 10%, mkmng Carthage and Letis. Workes->home.
9 570 BC Babs up Mysticism and belo Philo, CoL and Literature. Romans finished Pyramids in Rome and start TGL in Rome. (Very good). We shall NOT trade Literature to anybody. let&#8217;s Romans finish TGL. They will not have other contacts and will NOT benefite from TGL. We will if capture Rome.
10 550BC Contact Ottomans. They are the same as Babs, but less gold.(3 Cities only)
11 530 BC Discover Republic->Currency. Revolt for 3 turns. Contact.Germans They are the same as Babs and Ottomans. Trade Philosophy to Babs for 85 gold and to Germans for Mysticism and 35 gold. Blocked two Romans Settler-Spear couples.
Suggestions-Recommendations. IMHO that game is done as the matter of fact. We only have to decide what type of victory we want. In short term future we can trade with Rome (say Ivory for wool +gold), in mid term we will trade with Indians and Persia. We will build horses to prepare to war. I think we will not give any techs to Rome and if they demand we reject and go to war. We have enough troops NOT let them in our border. (We do not need MP now). When scouting sea do not stop at coast (Stop at sea ONLY) barb galleys will not attack then. We also may make embassy at persepol to know more map.

 

[TheNemesis666]

got it and will play and post tonight. (should be done 6 hours from now) Good work all so far. Sorry I wasn't able to post and comment over the weekend, i've been pretty busy with work lately and it was a long weekend here so I had a bit of a "de-stress" weekend. (and it was my birthday too so all round I was feeling fairly sick coming to work today

 

[TheNemesis666]

preturn
all looks good.

510BC (1)
zzz

490BC (2)
zzz

470BC (3)
We are now a republic
sci30%, lux10%, +4gpt, 370g, Currency 14t

450BC (4)
zzz

430BC (5)
zzz

410BC (6)
build embassy in persepolis

390BC (7)
Leptis court->hoplite

370BC (8)
Utica Library->harbor
Theveste harbor->granary
hmm, vikings or germany got construction last turn and traded for poly with babs
Babs will give us the best deal for it at 329g, will leave for next player to decide. (8t till we get currency)

350BC (9)
argh we just got a piece of palace and I clicked on a second storey then realised the base was from different set. (we nowhave a mongrel palace)
ew, then I moved a accidently when switching back to civ :-(
Theres an archer in neoCarthage for barb hunting and there are a couple of hops heading south to replace warriors down

there.

Firaxis: 290
Jason: 384


>>> SAVE <<<

 

[TheNemesis666]

the embassy pic:

 

[I. Larkin]

I think we should trade Tech and LuX more efficently. Defenetly, we must have Sci>50%. Also, we may build colony at Ivory and trade to Persia for fur+gold. What Babs or Vikings give for Republic? We may set embassy in Babilon to see what contacts they have. I suspect Vikings are isolated.
Also we can trade Ivory to Romans for wool and gold.
We also may pre-build something everywhere to get Marketplases in core Cities.

 

[TheNemesis666]

there are a few warriors we could disband to improve our economy, i was using them to block the romans. (but there is an over kill of units down there now)