SGOTM5 - Team jeffelammar

[grahamiam]

I'm against razing ANY cities. We can't build to fill in, so we should avoid leaving any unsettled territory. The only way for us to fill it in is to wait for an AI to settle. This is problematic because the AI often won't settle next to your borders, so they may never fill in the holes for us.

sorry jeff, i disagree. the goal is conquests, not domination. if we have to raze a city here or there, we should accept it. i really feel we need to end the war vs the vikings (they are broken and should be left for mop-up duty later) and concentrate on getting our troops eastward, into the chinese, zulu, and mongols.

This pic explains a lot better what I think is our best course of action atm. capitol will jump to Linkoping once Bjeorwhatever is captured. Raze Uppsala and take Stockholm in peace. Vikings reduced to dyes island, which we can capture later and get another lux.

edit: warrior from Oslo can block any settlers from the last viking town

 

[jeffelammar]

Actually Great Leaders can be disbanded for 250 shields, so we might consider using one (if we get one) to help Bejing with the FP.

I think it might be a good idea to pop-rush a court in Bejing before starting the FP.

Maybe I'm missing something, but as far as I know, the shields from disbanding a unit cannot be used to help build wonders or palaces.

This would include the 250 for disbanding a leader, so the leader would not be able to be used towards a FP.

sorry jeff, i disagree. the goal is conquests, not domination. if we have to raze a city here or there, we should accept it. i really feel we need to end the war vs the vikings (they are broken and should be left for mop-up duty later) and concentrate on getting our troops eastward, into the chinese, zulu, and mongols.

Good points.
I just want to get us more cities now. (Later as we approach the Domination limit would be the time to start razing.)
Also, if we follow the plan and put the FP in Beijing, then we want as many cities near Beijing as possible.

So as I see it, we really want Uppsala for two main reasons.
1. Automatic gems - By having Nidaros and Uppsala, we would have access to the gems in between without having to build a new road and without having to build culture improvements. With the addition of Bjoergivin, we would also have iron without having to do any culture buildings, we would just have to build the road.

2. Once cleared, those jungle squares will give us solid grassland squares. While that isn't a priority now, this is an area of land that will be more productive long term due to the rank corruption bug.

I don't have a major objection to razing Uppsala, if you do it, that is fine, but I wanted to give you my reasons for not wanting to do so.

If we can get Uppsala for peace after taking Bjoergivin, then we should take it instead of Stockholm.
Then we can take Stockholm at our leisure.

If we can't get Uppsala, we might even consider leaving it alone.

One other note. Unless we start building lots of culture buildings, we won't even get close to the domination limit. This is for a couple reasons.
1. The AI cities are spread out, so without level 3 culture, we won't get a tight coverage.
2. Our home island. We aren't planing on taking land there at all (since it all sucks)
3. There is a HEAP of Coast around that we won't ever get in our cultural influence.

These three points combine to make me want to keep every city that the AI builds.

 

[grahamiam]

If we can get Uppsala for peace after taking Bjoergivin, then we should take it instead of Stockholm.

i absolutely agree with this, but the vikings wouldn't give it up for anything during my turns i hope they give it up, otherwise, we're wasting time dillydallying with the vikings. if we want to wait for Uppsala to go to size 2, then at least get the army out of there (after taking Bjoergivin) so we can set it loose while its still viable.

@denyd -> you may want to pillage the chinese horses as you retreat our stack. getting some horse counters would be a pain.

 

[CKS]

I'd rather not raze Uppsala. If we can't get it for peace, I'd rather let it be for now and come back and take it in 20 turns. In 20 turns it will have grown, and we can make sure the Vikings have a new government so they can't pop rush.

Since we'll know monarchy in 6 turns, I'd rather cash-rush a courthouse in Beijing rather than use a leader. I'm ambivalent about pop-rushing it. I think that the unhappiness will cause more problems than it is worth for the extra no-more-than-six turns we gain. We have cash at the moment, and although PTW armies aren't terrifically powerful, I think they are better than a courthouse we can buy, especially since we don't currently have any powerful units. Horses are poor against spears, but they'll just suicide against pikes, and we'll see pikes soon.

 

[grahamiam]

ok, if the team wants to leave uppsala there and come back in 20, that's fine with me. i just ask that we block Linkoping to prevent another settler coming out and that the next war with the vikings is the last war. get stockholm in peace and let's start concentrating our forces eastward

i guess the reason i don't see it necessary to keep uppsala is that the gems are only 2 cultural expansions away for us but that's mute now as we're letting it be.

 

[denyd]

Turn Log 3

Turn 0 – 150 BC – Fire a taxmen in Canton – Trade WM + 300g to Japan for Construction and enter the Middle Ages getting Feudalism as the bonus tech – Almost traded Construction + 130g + WM to Arabs for Monarchy, but decided not to

IBT: Moscow horse->horse – Beijing builds the Pyramids

Turn 1 – 130 BC – Upgrade Moscow spear to pike – Suicide Galley redlines but sinks BG

IBT: Swap TM’s with Cleopatra – Lots of people switch to Great Library & Great Wall

Turn 2 – 110 BC – Northward Ho sinks a BG and spots a couple of BH about to visit Egypt – Horse (5/5) kills Chinese Archer and promotes – Wounded horses leave Chinese land to heal

IBT: Moscow Horse->Pike – Oslo warrior->barracks

Turn 3 – 90 BC – Elite Archer(2/5) kills Viking Reg Archer

IBT: BH Pillages our iron – Vet Horseman (4/4) defends against BH

Turn 4 – 70 BC – Horses rest

IBT: Vet Horse (4/5) defends against BW & 2 BH and promotes – 2 BH show up NE of Moscow & 8 BH show up new Bjeorvin– Moscow pike->warrior

Turn 5 – 50 BC – 3 Units ready for Bjoervin – Horses should be ready next turn

IBT: Discover Monarchy research Monotheism - begin revolt – Paris builds Great Library – Kyoto builds the Great Wall – Government due back in 3

Turn 6 - 30 BC – I’ll let the 3 BH hit Bjoergvin first – Horses approach size 2 Nanking

IBT: BH decide to attack by stack instead – no damage and a promotion to elite – Pike defending horses wins but not promotion

Turn 7 – 10 BC – Assault on Nanking: Army loses 8hp killing 2 Reg spear – Elite Horse (4/5) kills Archer and captures Nanking – Assaut on Bjoervin: Elite Sword (1/5) kills Reg Spear – Elite Sword (3/5) kills Reg Spear – Vet Horse(3/4) kills Vet Archer and there’s still another archer left

IBT: BH – Pillage tiles around Nidaros - Pike defends against 2 BH and is now elite

Turn 8 – 10 AD – Vet Horse (1/4) kills Reg Archer and Bjoergvin is captured – Vikings will not give up Uppsala yet

IBT: Revolt to Monarchy is complete

Turn 9 – 30 AD – Assault on Beijing – Army loses 4hp killing Reg Spear – Elite Horse (1/5) kills Reg Spear – Vet Horse(1/4) retreats) – Elite Horse (3/4) kills Reg Spear – Elite Horse (2/5) kills reg spear (1 wounded spear left)

IBT: Moscow Warrior->warrior

Turn 10 – 50 AD – Horse (2/4) kills Reg Spear in Uppsala – Elite Sword (4/5) kills BH – Vet Horse (2/4) kills Reg Spear and Beijing is captured and we now have the Pyramids

I left a lot of undefended cities. We’ve got 2 elite swords in Bjoervin that should be able to take Uppsala (iron & gems) – Our horsemen are kind of beat up and will need some rest – Our research rate sucks – We’re still 8 units over limit – I figured we’d pump about 10 vet warriors out in Moscow and transport them over and upgrade them to MDI – Once Uppsala falls we’ll get Linkoping for peace (already available), that will add dyes to our list – Have those workers by Canton connect the gems if it’s going to take much longer to get Uppsala – We might consider waiting for knights before taking on Zulus or else avoid using our what’s left of our horses. – All of our target cities are now size two – With no other scientific tribes in the game, our monopoly on feudalism should last for a while.

 

[jeffelammar]

Looks good. I should be able to take Uppsala quickly.

I'm going to cook some dinner now, and will be playing in about an hour and a half (11:00 MST Saturday night)

I pretty much agree with everything Denyd said. I don't think I will have to worry about attacking the Zulu in my ten turns unless I get lucky in taking out the rest of China.

 

[jeffelammar]

The save

Quick Summary: A little progress and a lot of prep for the next player.

Turn 0 - 50 AD: No changes

IBT: The two BHs near Oslo kill our E. Horse. Moscow builds Warrior.

Turn 1 - 70 AD:
Move two Swords and a horse towards Uppsala.
MM Moscow from the roaded forest to net 15 spt and 1 more commerce.
Decide that the barbs are more of a problem than I'd like, Switch Moscow to Horseman.

IBT: Viking Archers advance.

Turn 2 - 90 AD:
Lots of movement to get in position. Kill Archer with a horse.
Uppsala is down to 1 pop again, waiting.
Start building Gem road with 6 slaves.

IBT: Moscow builds a Horseman start another

Turn 3 - 110 AD:Move up

IBT: Arabs build Hanging Gardens.

Turn 4 - 130 AD: Move more troops. Not much else.

IBT: Japan demands Monarchy, refuse and the coward goes home. Moscow builds Horseman -> Horseman

Turn 5 - 150 AD: Keep moving up and healing.

IBT: Canton builds Barracks, starts on warrior. Gem road completed.
I noticed something strange. In city screens it shows that we have dyes instead of gems. We still get the happiness, so no big.

Turn 6 - 170 AD:
Raze Uppsala, NO losses, kill 2 Spears- With the gem road built AND an iron colony, we don't need it, and I don't want to keep troops here any longer.
Peace with Scandinavia for WM + 5g + Linkoping
Army healed, advance on Tsingtao with army and 4 horsemen

IBT: Get FP availibility message. Build Horse, switch to warrior.

Turn 7 - 190 AD:
Assault on Tsingtao. Army kills Spear, E. Horse Retreats vrs spear, E. Horse kills Spear, V. Horse kills Archer. A galley dies in the conquest.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 8 - 210 AD:
Troops advance from behind. The Tsingtao force heals.

IBT: zzz

Turn 9 - 230 AD:
Keep moving. We have 3 warriors in Canton waiting for founding colony next turn.

IBT: zzzzzz

Turn 10 - 250 AD:
Found Iron Colony.
Upgrade 3 Warriors to Medieval Infantry (60g each)

After Action Report
I went after Tsingtao because Shanghai is on a hill. I wanted the Elite Sword and 3 MIs to help bust our way in there.

The horses in Tsingtao are fully healed. They should be able to take Xinjian and get them healed up about the time the MIs and Sword show up. Xinjian is pop 1 right now, so it would be razed. Decision is up to the next player.

With a Horse to keep the barbs away from Moscow, we are now making Warriors. I suggest we keep doing so till we no longer have enough money to upgrade the warriors.

Notice the Ship chain from near Moscow to near Canton. I didn't make perfect use of it, but it is well set up.

Roster
bed_head7 <<< Up
CKS <<< On Dec
denyd
grahamiam
jeffelammar

 

[grahamiam]

nice screenie?

 

[jeffelammar]

nice screenie?

Sure. Here is a shot of the Chinese front.

You can see the advancing sword and the 3 MIs in Canton. Also visible are the troops in Tsingtao and the two remaining Chinese cities.

 

[bed_head7]

Alright. A swap if CKS has time might be better, since I am a little busy until the 15th.

Edit: Actually, got it, and can play tonight. Got everything done way ahead of schedule.

 

[grahamiam]

thanks for the screenie, jeff. i was typing that with my 1yr old on my lap

excellent progress! we need to try to keep it up. btw, i thought we were going for a court then FP in Beijing?

is that an AI town on our island? do we want to go get it before too many spawn there?

 

[jeffelammar]

excellent progress! we need to try to keep it up. btw, i thought we were going for a court then FP in Beijing?

I meant to mention that. Yes, the Court is the plan. I didn't rush it because I wanted the money for upgrading warriors. Also, I just didn't switch it because it wasn't close to time that something would complete. Guess I should have switched it to keep it in everyone's mind.

is that an AI town on our island? do we want to go get it before too many spawn there?

Yep, actually two of them. They just showed up. I knew I forgot to mention something (Sorry).
We might as well trash them when we can spare a few units.

 

[bed_head7]

I have finished my turns, but had a few notes and screenshots I wanted to add at the end, so I won't post it until tomorrow when I have more time. I hope that is okay.

 

[CKS]

Boy, skip reading for a day and the whole world changes! Nice job. It sounds like we are in good shape. I'm glad we've moved on from the Vikings.

I think we should encourage the AI to build on our island. There are a few good city spots that would be nice for us to have. We can raze the bad ones and keep the good ones. These would have rather less corruption than anywhere else, until we get the FP built. They will be far from the palace, so we'll still have lots of first rank cities after we get the FP built.

 

[denyd]

Nice turns Jeffelammer

I started the barracks in Beijing and forgot to mention to change to whatever the team deemed necessary. Somewhere near the end of the the next turnset our peace with the Vikings should run out and Stockholm should be taken to eliminate them and any flip chances. China doesn't have much left to slow us down, Shanghai should be taken and Tsintin razed (probably auto).

Next up are the Zulu and MDI should be setup to provide most of the offense against them. Horses vs Impi are not a good thing. We should probably use the non-elite horses as MP's in Viking & Chinese lands until knights are available. The elites should be used to pick off Zulu Archers and GL farm while running with the MDI. With Moscow pumping out warriors every other turn, we'll soon run of upgrade cash (+15 per turn is 1 warrior to MDI every 4 turns). We should probably build horses for a while to let the cash build up again. Those horses could be used to clean up the remaining barbarians (hoping for promotions) and then be positioned to capture our visitors once they grow/expand.

It would be nice to get rid of the Mongols before Keishiks. England is next in line and should be gone long before MOW appear. With luck we'll be able to wrap this up without facing anyone's GA. I am a little concerned about triggering a Zulu GA. Shaka can pump out a lot of Impis during a GA. We shouldn't have any problems killing them. But they're likely to slow our advances (kills-heal-kill-heal instead of kill-move-kill.) on the Zulu cities.

 

[CKS]

It would be nice to get rid of the Mongols before Keishiks.

Remember, in this game the Mongol's UU is not the Keshik. They have a 3/2/2 (+ zone of control) horseman replacement. I expect we'll face plenty of them by the time we get to them, and I'm sure they'll have a golden age while we are at war with them, unless they've already had one. They aren't cheap, but they sound nasty.

 

[bed_head7]

I didn't really add anything that made the extra wait worthwhile. Whatever I wanted to add is now forgotten.

Save

IT - Barb horsie kills our warrior.

260 AD (1) - Give Monarchy to Spain for a couple of workers. Elite Horse kills Chinese archer. Declare war on the Zulu since they are pissing me off. Then another elite horse kills a Zulu archer and takes two slaves (settler).

270 AD (2) - Lose a horse, kill two spears, raze Xinjian. Kill an Impi with our army.

IT - Chinese sword attacks our horse on the iron mountain, and the sword loses flawlessly.

280 AD (3) - Not enough money to upgrade all the warriors we have, so I'll build another galley to make the chain complete.

290 AD (4) - Nothing yet. Still waiting to attack Shanghai.

300 AD (5) - Starting marketplace in Moscow. That gives time to get more gold, and once it is built more gold faster, so we can continue warrior upgrading. Also think I am going to find a new route for the galley chain. Ours doesn't need to be this far back, and since I am giong to send some horseman after the cities on our island before going back to warriors, we will probably have a nice chunk of Zululand under our control. And since they have veteran units and are militaristic, they might have some barracks in towns we'll be capturing.

310 AD (6) - Capture Shanghai without loss. It has a harbor, so our trade network is all hooked up. Galleys moving, and we should be able to do the shipping of units in one turn to a spot in eastern Zululand or western Mongolia.

320 AD (7) - Moving towards Isandhlwana.

IT - We lose a horse to a zulu archer, and another retreats.

330 AD (8) - Lose another horse to an archer, this time attacking though. Looks like the Zulu may be a semi-competent oppenent. This map is going to be a pain to finish off. All the little islands. Just realizing that as others start colonizing.

IT - Lose another horse, but to an Impi! Our horse was on a hill, too! Oh well.

340 AD (9) - Two MI kill two Impi. Then an elite horse loses to a 2/5hp archer. Then we capture it. Also notice this turn that the Zulu city Ngome is on a one tile island, so we'll have to get it in peace.

IT - Isandhlwana taken back by the Zulus, though they lost an archer and horse.

350 AD (10) - I had switched research to a single scientist, the scientist disappered a few turns ago, and we haven't researched anything for awhile. I dropped off two MI on the far end of the Zulu empire. Just for fun. Oh, recaptured Isandhlwana.

I didn't leave much of a rear guard in captured lands. China is gone (don't remember if I noted their demise) and we still have a few turns left on peace with the Vikings. I was sort of going to try a two direction attack on the Zulu, to speed things up. With the ship chain set up, we ought to send over a few defensive units, so we don't lose any offensive units defending. The galley chain is not perfect, or even in place at the moment, as I used some of the galleys for other stuff. But it will work well enough to move the galleys quickly.

 

[CKS]

Things are looking good. I've got the save, I think (the link is screwy), and I'll play tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[grahamiam]

nice JD! and good eyes for Ngome