eldar
ChiefTank
France is currently sounding very scary! I say we find her, and get a dogpile on her.
SGOTM6 - Team Bede
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Well I have to go. The GS idea was just that an idea. I don't know if we even have a chance at the GL and OH MY would that suck if we did waste our GA on a wonder race that we lost..............
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I don't know what to do.... Good luck. I have to leave work now. I'll check up on things tonight sometime.
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I don't know what to do.... Good luck. I have to leave work now. I'll check up on things tonight sometime.
Minute Man
Prince
Looks like I may be too late, but I'd recommend against a GA just for the purpose of getting the GL - Entremont is already working a lot of 2-shield squares, so the benefit will be minimal. I also suspect that Karakorum will beat us to the GL - if we have money to spare, you might want to investigate it and find out for sure. But I'd go with a library in Ent and get back to building military.
eldar said:I know our illustrious leader isn't around, but I'm sure he'd jump up and down a bit like<-- this if we hosed our GA at such an early age, just for the GL.
Too bad about the French. C'est la vie, as they say.
Agree with eldar that the GA for the GL isn't worth it. Dump the shields into the most expensive cultural building you can and get Entremont back on its 7 turn GS/settler cycle. The GL is worth less than 6 cities with temples or three with libraries, remember.
Sorry I led us down the Primrose Path here.
And concur, we need to find the French and if nothing else get them into the war with Japan.
Got enough archers to take on China yet?
And remember, the more early culture buildings the better our cpt curve.
I have the day off today so was able to finish my turns.
Turn log:
Turn 0 (750BC)
Move troops as suggested earlier. Operation Cat & Mouse begins.
IBT
Chinese move opposite direction! Darn!
India and Japan sign a peace treaty.
Turn 1 730BC
Alesia builds archer -> catapult in 5
Cam builds archer -> archer in 5
Eboracum borders expand
Cataractonium founded -> catapult in 10
Workers complete projects and are now roading and mining Entremot + Rich to increase prod.
Pop rush catapult in Ebor
Everyone except Chinese and India still at war with Japan.
IBT
Chinese now have 3 greedy settlers with their feet on our land.
Yellow send a settler from west too.
Turn 2 710BC
Lug builds worker -> gallic in 6t
George builds galley -> archer in 5
Aaaagh! The French have done it again! Paris builds ToA!
Trondheim builds Great Lighthouse
Washington builds Mausoleum of Mausollos
After team consensus switch prod to library in Ent and demand chinese leave. They actually move!
Grrr! looks like the RNG is stacked well against us.
IBT
Chinese and Mongols run around near our borders but don't cross them.
China starts prod on Great Wall.
Turn 3 690BC
New plan, search and destroy French. new galley is sent looking for them as war with Japan is going nowhere fast.
Lapurdum founded next to pearls. Prod -> temple with intention of pop rushing.
Lots of roads/mines completed. Road network almost complete.
IBT
Mongols ask us to move.
Turn 4 670BC
Cost of C.o.L. suddenly drops. Due in 1t at +9gpt after adjustments. Turns out Hiawatha sold it to Ghandi but none of the other AI know it yet.
Pop rush temple in Burdigala. Change prod to temples in 2 more cities.
Northern curragh spots Viking elite warrior. We are up currency and they have construction.
Turn 5 650BC
Learn CoL, research Monarchy @30% for now.
Dyes hooked up at last! Worker effort now concentrated on getting incense.
Catapult built, send to Ebor for defensive watch. Chinese are getting a bit happy around our borders.
Trade Poly to China for Construction and 55gold. No other trades that I'm willing to enter into.
Enter Middle Ages.
Set research to Feudalism on min science as maxed out will take 23turns.
Turn 6 630BC
A few more units built. Start prod on a couple more cats and archers.
We're second in culture behind Japan. Might be able to flip the Mongol city next to the spices if we're really lucky.
Turn 7 610BC
Lugundum builds GS -> lib in 10t.
Move units to fortify northern towns, leaving a few archers in case Japan lands a few.
Decide to emphasize shields as food isn't a prob. Start construction of a new mine on the iron.
IBT
Mongols and Japan sign a peace treaty with only 2 turns left!
Turn 8 590BC
Temple built in Cam -> GS
All civs except China are in the MA. Haven't seen any barbs for ages so don't know if there was an uprising.
Still no sign of the French or the Viking homeland.
Turn 9 570BC
Borders expand. Alesia starts on a Lib.
Curragh spots American Settler. Make contact. They're annoyed (big surprise!)
We're up Con and Curr. and they have Monarchy. No trade possible.
Turn 10 550BC
Rich starts a barracks.
Nothing much of interest except the lux route is taking shape. I'm avoiding mountains where possible so it will be built quicker.
Chinese have plopped a few more towns in that'll need eliminating soon.
I think the chinese need teaching a lesson but wasn't organised enought to get troops together. We have 4 GS who will prob only get used in an emergency. Our military has gone from weak to average so we're almost there. We're still in alliances with 3 civs against Japan.
I've attached a couple of pics to show where the new civs are and our core.
Turn log:
Turn 0 (750BC)
Move troops as suggested earlier. Operation Cat & Mouse begins.
IBT
Chinese move opposite direction! Darn!
India and Japan sign a peace treaty.
Turn 1 730BC
Alesia builds archer -> catapult in 5
Cam builds archer -> archer in 5
Eboracum borders expand
Cataractonium founded -> catapult in 10
Workers complete projects and are now roading and mining Entremot + Rich to increase prod.
Pop rush catapult in Ebor
Everyone except Chinese and India still at war with Japan.
IBT
Chinese now have 3 greedy settlers with their feet on our land.
Yellow send a settler from west too.
Turn 2 710BC
Lug builds worker -> gallic in 6t
George builds galley -> archer in 5
Aaaagh! The French have done it again! Paris builds ToA!
Trondheim builds Great Lighthouse
Washington builds Mausoleum of Mausollos
After team consensus switch prod to library in Ent and demand chinese leave. They actually move!
Grrr! looks like the RNG is stacked well against us.
IBT
Chinese and Mongols run around near our borders but don't cross them.
China starts prod on Great Wall.
Turn 3 690BC
New plan, search and destroy French. new galley is sent looking for them as war with Japan is going nowhere fast.
Lapurdum founded next to pearls. Prod -> temple with intention of pop rushing.
Lots of roads/mines completed. Road network almost complete.
IBT
Mongols ask us to move.
Turn 4 670BC
Cost of C.o.L. suddenly drops. Due in 1t at +9gpt after adjustments. Turns out Hiawatha sold it to Ghandi but none of the other AI know it yet.
Pop rush temple in Burdigala. Change prod to temples in 2 more cities.
Northern curragh spots Viking elite warrior. We are up currency and they have construction.
Turn 5 650BC
Learn CoL, research Monarchy @30% for now.
Dyes hooked up at last! Worker effort now concentrated on getting incense.
Catapult built, send to Ebor for defensive watch. Chinese are getting a bit happy around our borders.
Trade Poly to China for Construction and 55gold. No other trades that I'm willing to enter into.
Enter Middle Ages.
Set research to Feudalism on min science as maxed out will take 23turns.
Turn 6 630BC
A few more units built. Start prod on a couple more cats and archers.
We're second in culture behind Japan. Might be able to flip the Mongol city next to the spices if we're really lucky.
Turn 7 610BC
Lugundum builds GS -> lib in 10t.
Move units to fortify northern towns, leaving a few archers in case Japan lands a few.
Decide to emphasize shields as food isn't a prob. Start construction of a new mine on the iron.
IBT
Mongols and Japan sign a peace treaty with only 2 turns left!
Turn 8 590BC
Temple built in Cam -> GS
All civs except China are in the MA. Haven't seen any barbs for ages so don't know if there was an uprising.
Still no sign of the French or the Viking homeland.
Turn 9 570BC
Borders expand. Alesia starts on a Lib.
Curragh spots American Settler. Make contact. They're annoyed (big surprise!)
We're up Con and Curr. and they have Monarchy. No trade possible.
Turn 10 550BC
Rich starts a barracks.
Nothing much of interest except the lux route is taking shape. I'm avoiding mountains where possible so it will be built quicker.
Chinese have plopped a few more towns in that'll need eliminating soon.
I think the chinese need teaching a lesson but wasn't organised enought to get troops together. We have 4 GS who will prob only get used in an emergency. Our military has gone from weak to average so we're almost there. We're still in alliances with 3 civs against Japan.
I've attached a couple of pics to show where the new civs are and our core.
Attachments
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
EDIT::: nevermind. I didn't finish reading post. sorry about the shooting from the hip there.
MORE EDIT: DO NOT trade or research any optional goverment techs except communism. Once we get Fued, DO NOT revolt. we will have to go back to despotism due to the variant. We can only be despotism or communism. that's it. I'm writing this mainly to stick it in my head.
MORE EDIT: DO NOT trade or research any optional goverment techs except communism. Once we get Fued, DO NOT revolt. we will have to go back to despotism due to the variant. We can only be despotism or communism. that's it. I'm writing this mainly to stick it in my head.
Pied Piper
Warlord
Took a quick look at the save. China may be a bigger problem for us now. With all those military units we have standing around we should put them to good use. I would switch Aged to a catapult. It is too late to pop rush temple in Cataract but a cat can be built there when it finishes. Do not build another barracks please. Change Rich to something else, prefer a cat.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Ok. I got it and will play tonight. any other suggestions other than the Piper's
Should I raise the research on Fued?
Should I raise the research on Fued?
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I was just looking at the graph on the results page and trying to figure out why after a great start everyone else is ahead of us in score....(I realize that this is a culture race not a score race)
Then it hit me. Population is part of the score. I wonder if the other teams are rushing things like we are. I saw in a previous gotm or sgotm that someone beat out another person by something like the equivelent of 1 library for 2 turns. I hope that they come up with the culture graph soon so we can see our REAL progress.
Then it hit me. Population is part of the score. I wonder if the other teams are rushing things like we are. I saw in a previous gotm or sgotm that someone beat out another person by something like the equivelent of 1 library for 2 turns. I hope that they come up with the culture graph soon so we can see our REAL progress.
Pied Piper said:
Can I ask why a barracks isn't a good idea? Is it just the shields would be better used elsewhere or is it a gpt thing? I thought since Rich was getting productive and is near the border then a barracks would be useful.
I put research to min on feudalism since we're planning to go to war soon. Mono and engineering have less benefits when war is your goal, but I wasn't entirely sure so just did min research for a few turns. I would usually go straight for republic at this stage, but thanks to the variant it's not needed this time.
@Mab, good progress. Only suggestion I would make is a little more agressiveness in trading and diplomacy. For example, once CoL was known if we had the money and there were any possible buyer I would have bought it right away and traded it back out.
@TR,
Reset research to Monotheism at the max we can afford. We need bigger churches ASAP. Don't worry about spending down the treasury, the only use we have for it is troop upgrades and the next upgrade to MDI costs zero IIRC.
Attack China as soon as you can get organized to do so.
Do The Americans and Vikings know Japan? Invite them to the war if they do.
The other team's curves are steeper, but not by much, because they went to war early and often, if I know the players, and I think I do. We delayed it for good reasons, but the time has come.
@TR,
Reset research to Monotheism at the max we can afford. We need bigger churches ASAP. Don't worry about spending down the treasury, the only use we have for it is troop upgrades and the next upgrade to MDI costs zero IIRC.
Attack China as soon as you can get organized to do so.
Do The Americans and Vikings know Japan? Invite them to the war if they do.
The other team's curves are steeper, but not by much, because they went to war early and often, if I know the players, and I think I do. We delayed it for good reasons, but the time has come.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Mono @ max we can afford, huh? does that mean go negative in gpt if we have cash reserves or do you just want as close to 0 gpt as I can get?
I saw your post on the maintenance thread. Does that mean that you were contemplating research on Republic for trading or trading for Monarchy?
I saw your post on the maintenance thread. Does that mean that you were contemplating research on Republic for trading or trading for Monarchy?
Erm, at the risk of sounding like a yorkshire lass... CoL came onto the table 1 turn before we would have researched it anyway, I didn't want to waste all those turns of research and pay through the nose so decided to wait a turn.
Hope that didn't put us too far behind. The only available trades then were like 150g for a tech.... erm no thanks!!!
Hope that didn't put us too far behind. The only available trades then were like 150g for a tech.... erm no thanks!!!
@TR,
Max we can afford means go negative if you have the reserves to support it. Hewing close to 0gpt costs more in the long run as the beakers don't accumulate fast enough yet you spend the money anyway.
Entremont needs to be reset to its GS training camp/settler farm, BTW.
On the barracks in R-borough: open question to me as I haven't looked at the save. But maybe the empire is better off if the town builds galleys first.
Re the Mon/Rep thing: either or both, I just like to make sure all the allowable options are considered.
Max we can afford means go negative if you have the reserves to support it. Hewing close to 0gpt costs more in the long run as the beakers don't accumulate fast enough yet you spend the money anyway.
Entremont needs to be reset to its GS training camp/settler farm, BTW.
On the barracks in R-borough: open question to me as I haven't looked at the save. But maybe the empire is better off if the town builds galleys first.
Re the Mon/Rep thing: either or both, I just like to make sure all the allowable options are considered.
mabellino said:
No risk. Always kinda liked 'em meself.
mabellino said:CoL came onto the table 1 turn before we would have researched it anyway, I didn't want to waste all those turns of research and pay through the nose so decided to wait a turn.
Hope that didn't put us too far behind. The only available trades then were like 150g for a tech.... erm no thanks!!!
You do get discounted credit in the asking price for the beakers invested so it is always something worth investigating. And if you can get 150g from a couple of people that always helps.
And the only time I turn down a deal is when they offer a Territory Map for Fission
Pied Piper
Warlord
Looking over the posts, did we just build a library instead of the Great Library in Entremont?
Regarding a barracks in Richborough, DON'T build one! Each barracks cost 1gpt and we already have 5 in place. Building a barracks also cost 40 shields or TWO catapults. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE build more catapults. It is nearly impossible to get the higher kill ratios without at least a dozen of them.
--- MicroM recommendations (FWIW) ---
Alesia: Whip the library in two turns, 59 shields for 3 pop is a good trade.
Lug: Move off both trees to river grasslands for 5fpt/7spt. Move back after two turns.
Lug: Whip the library in two turns, 40 shields for 2 pop. (Or switch to GS now)
Rich: Switch to catapult, PLEASE. Did I say please? I meant pretty please.
Rich: After catapult, build worker at -2fpt/10spt, then back to catapults.
Cat: Needs worker for irrigation project
Gergovia: Finish galley, build catapult PLEASE.
Aged: Switch to catapult, PLEASE.
Aged: (OK, there is an alternative: switch to harbor and whip in 10, 5 if forest cut)
Camul: Steal trees from Alesia, which has other trees (on river) to work instead.
Ent: Move off two trees to the two river grasslands. Then back to settler/GS rotation.
Ebora/August: Change to 3fpt, corruption is too high for anything else.
Ebore/August: Switch to library, cut trees and whip when possible, (may switch to defend in a war emergency)
Regarding a barracks in Richborough, DON'T build one! Each barracks cost 1gpt and we already have 5 in place. Building a barracks also cost 40 shields or TWO catapults. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE build more catapults. It is nearly impossible to get the higher kill ratios without at least a dozen of them.
--- MicroM recommendations (FWIW) ---
Alesia: Whip the library in two turns, 59 shields for 3 pop is a good trade.
Lug: Move off both trees to river grasslands for 5fpt/7spt. Move back after two turns.
Lug: Whip the library in two turns, 40 shields for 2 pop. (Or switch to GS now)
Rich: Switch to catapult, PLEASE. Did I say please? I meant pretty please.
Rich: After catapult, build worker at -2fpt/10spt, then back to catapults.
Cat: Needs worker for irrigation project
Gergovia: Finish galley, build catapult PLEASE.
Aged: Switch to catapult, PLEASE.
Aged: (OK, there is an alternative: switch to harbor and whip in 10, 5 if forest cut)
Camul: Steal trees from Alesia, which has other trees (on river) to work instead.
Ent: Move off two trees to the two river grasslands. Then back to settler/GS rotation.
Ebora/August: Change to 3fpt, corruption is too high for anything else.
Ebore/August: Switch to library, cut trees and whip when possible, (may switch to defend in a war emergency)
Pied Piper
Warlord
It may be that the other teams have a steeper curve from an early GA, but I doubt it. We have managed to waste a few shields along the way.
May as well mention it again. The new galley should at least put a worker on the cow before wandering about.
May as well mention it again. The new galley should at least put a worker on the cow before wandering about.
Pied Piper
Warlord
Just took a look at the flip risk numbers, Hangchow needs to be added as a priority target.
Chengdu is still first, any catapults going to Hangchow must first go past Chengdu.
Shantung, Kaifeng and Chinan are secondary targets, but now that there are three of them it won't be a simple mop up operation, they have had a few turns to produce. On the bright side there is another China settler to provide slaves but it won't be a cakewalk anymore.
I think China needs to be cut back. Doing so now will mean a slight delay in attacking Japan but further delay will make it much more difficult. It may still be a short war, but probably more than 10 turns now that China has those extra cities in the south.
If TR wants to get in position and attack midway through his turn set I will try to do my best to finish the China war during my turns so that Eldar can get in position to attack Japan.
Chengdu is still first, any catapults going to Hangchow must first go past Chengdu.
Shantung, Kaifeng and Chinan are secondary targets, but now that there are three of them it won't be a simple mop up operation, they have had a few turns to produce. On the bright side there is another China settler to provide slaves but it won't be a cakewalk anymore.
I think China needs to be cut back. Doing so now will mean a slight delay in attacking Japan but further delay will make it much more difficult. It may still be a short war, but probably more than 10 turns now that China has those extra cities in the south.
If TR wants to get in position and attack midway through his turn set I will try to do my best to finish the China war during my turns so that Eldar can get in position to attack Japan.
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