SGOTM6 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

I am seeing an awful lot of green on that map!!

I think the next problem will not be getting to MT but in securing a source of Saltpeter to upgrade the Knights to Cavs. Just had a look at the save and checked things out in CRpMapStat and found that the only available source of Saltpeter is Babylon and, even at 1485 Gold, he isn't interested, for now.

Looks like the thing to do maybe to research MT at the 10 turn rate, stop research and secure Saltpater on a GPT basis, if that is possible, and then, after we capture our own source, send him packing. Babylon is used to that sort of treatment anyway...

I'm all for taking out Japan with Cavs as soon as we can get some upgraded and I agree with Gator that we need to keep the Knight builds going for upgrades. Adding Japan, India and NeoCarthage should give us more than enough tiles for our 300 cities, estimating 4 or 5 tiles per city in ICS?

If we are fortunate and are the first with MT, we might even have Japan's, India's and NeoCarthage's territory by the time we get to Communism.

 

[AlanH]

I seem to recall seeing second unconnected source in Japan, If so you could connect it up under RoP, then do a deal for it, then RoP rape him with the cavalry you produce

 

[Mistfit]

Devious and Mean! That's what I like about you Alan!

 

[AlanH]

Excellent war mongering Gator.

With leif and WillowBrook back in action this time around the roster should look like this. But we'll need a full trip report on Italy, W

Gyathaar UP
AlanH - On deck
Tomoyo
leif erikson
WillowBrook
DJMGator13 - just played

 

[Tomoyo]

Note that I will be away until Friday, so if I come up before then, skip me.

Anyway, it looks good, Gator.

 

[AlanH]

@Tomoyo: I doubt if I'll play before Friday, even if Gyathaar delivers tonight. I have a heavy day tomorrow.

BTW. In case anyone is concerned, don't be. The fastest culture rate on the progress graph right now is Jeffelammar's. It looks like they're running at about 250 cpt, and they have less than 10% of the 100K so far. At that rate they would reach 100K shortly before 2050 AD. In other words, the current cpt and culture values give absolutely no clue as to who is going to win this race.

 

[AlanH]

Devious and Mean! That's what I like about you Alan!

Well, you know the old adage about 'old age and treachery ...'?

 

[Gyathaar]

@Tomoyo: I doubt if I'll play before Friday, even if Gyathaar delivers tonight. I have a heavy day tomorrow.

BTW. In case anyone is concerned, don't be. The fastest culture rate on the progress graph right now is Jeffelammar's. It looks like they're running at about 250 cpt, and they have less than 10% of the 100K so far. At that rate they would reach 100K shortly before 2050 AD. In other words, the current cpt and culture values give absolutely no clue as to who is going to win this race.

What you need to look for is a sharp bend in the cpt graph.. as in sharp I mean an increase in cpt over 10 turns with around 300-500cpt.
The games we see with really high cpt are all C3C games, which I expect is due to ToA.. celts is the perfect C3C civ to take full advantage of ToA (thou its somewhat lower in this game since cant switch to feudalism)

Edit: Would actually be funny to go full out poprush just so see how the other teams would react if we got to around 500cpt at end of my turns

It would hurt overall speed, but might cause the other teams to panic

 

[DJMGator13]

I'd rather see the look on their faces when we come from off the charts to leading once we take over Japan, India, Irq and Cart.

BTW, cart are a good target also even though we are weak to them. They don't have horses and iron, IIRC. They could be swept pretty fast once we hit cavs.

 

[Gyathaar]

France is also a must hit target since we need pyramids

 

[leif erikson]

France is also a must hit target since we need pyramids

Perhaps we should come up with a prioity list of who is going to get pushed aside and eliminated. We can't take them all down, can we??

Am I right thinking that we should try to have as much territory as we need by the time we can obtain Communism? If so, I think some ROP abuse is in order. Can we confirm that Carthage has all ancient age units because of lack of resources? If so, iirc, that might be a nice way to take out Japan, from both sides at once.

CRpMapStat does not show that Carthage needs horses or iron, unless we can't trade with them. Guess I should looks at the save again.

EDIT - @Alan - You have a graph or table for everythihng over on the score page. We're falling behind in SPAM!!

Should have double posted!!

 

[Capt Buttkick]

lurker's comment: leif

You probably all know this, but fwiw: Carth has 3-def units already in the AA. Same cost as pikes

 

[AlanH]

EDIT - @Alan - You have a graph or table for everythihng over on the score page. We're falling behind in SPAM!!

You ain't seen nut'n yet! There's a lot more data where that came from. I just have to get it into graph form.

 

[leif erikson]

lurker's comment: leif

You probably all know this, but fwiw: Carth has 3-def units already in the AA. Same cost as pikes

All I can say is that, after our SGOTM05 experience, a 3 defense unit is much better than a 6, or worse, a 10 defense unit any day of the week.


But even more important, (as you well know) defenders with attack values of 1, or offensive units with attack values of 2, are even better. There aren't too many counterattacks when that happens, so we can control the momentum of the attack and not worry too much about sticking to mountains or hills to protect ourselves. The Knights, and better than that, the Cavs are free to roam and use their full movement to awesome effect.

You ain't seen nut'n yet! There's a lot more data where that came from. I just have to get it into graph form.

Now that you are a little more restricted to your Mac, there is no telling what may pop up over on that page! Just remember, the more you put there, the longer I'll have to spend tinkering with it. Hope it doesn't require a skip to figure it all out!!

Maybe that is a good strategy, keep the other teams in the data and out of their games!!

EDIT - spelling and grammar, yuk!!

 

[DJMGator13]

@leif - Mapstat will only show when you have 1 available for trade. The F4 screen will show that we have horses (0) when you talk with CART. This means we have only 1 source of horses (none to trade) and CART has none. But I may be mistaken about it being CART I have not looked at the save again since originally posting that assertion.

 

[leif erikson]

@Gator - You are correct, I am looking at the F4 screen and Carthage needs Horses and Iron. What she doesn't need is Saltpeter, so we might face some Muskets. They have 19 cities for now.

Militarily, we are strong vs. Japan and India, average vs. Carthage and weak vs. France.

As I understand the rules, the race is who gets to 100K in the least number of turns. According to CRpMapStat, we currently have 660 tiles towards domination (15%) and need 2273. There are 808 tiles unclaimed and I think a fair number of those are in the former Chinese and Mogol zones. We can take Japan, Carthage and India, along with a good chunk of France and Iroquois territory before we would achieve domination. But I don't think we need that much, do we?

Our nearest cultural rival will be Babylon and they are currently at 9,000 culture points, so they will have a while before they reach 50K. I am getting the feeling that if we continue to conquest until we get communism, then switch to a full cultural rush, we should be all set.

What do we need to do then?
1. Defeat and eliminate Japan, Carthage and, if there is time, India.
2. Take enough of France to hold the Pyramids and not worry about flips. We may want to help France get into some wars to keep them occupied so they don't become like they were in SGOTM05.
3. With lower shield cities, start Settlers and workers while the higher shield cities pump military units.
4. Keep up trading and research until we get Communism and Steam.
5. Change governments and begin the culture blitz. I assume we want to be at peace with everyone during the cultural reformation?

Is this a reasonable outline of our todo list and goals?

 

[Gyathaar]

Close.. except take out iroquios instead of india.. india has nothing we need, and their lands is mostly jungle, while Iroquois has 3 new luxes we dont have.

We may not need all their territory, but we need the luxes.. (poprushing and drafing give a lot of unhappiness)

There is a good reason why saltpeter dont show up in F4 for carthage.. neither we or they have it..

 

[Gyathaar]

About to start playing this, havent had a chance earlier.
Just checking.. it is allowed by the rules to ally AIs vs each other and then break the alliances immediately by declaring on them?

 

[AlanH]

I don't see why not. I'm not aware of any rules or precedents relating to making or breaking alliances.

 

[DJMGator13]

I sure hope there isn't a restriction on that. I did it in one of last months xOTM. Not only did I get them to sign MAs but I even signed a couple of ROPs which allowed me to do some fast conquest. I actually waited 1 turn before sneak attacking the one civ because I wanted them to send troops to the other front, then I hit them from the rear.