SGOTM6 - Xteam

[Gyathaar]

You get the flip ranges if you have spoiler info turned off

 

[leif erikson]

I downloaded Trade Assist and this is what it gave us:

 

[Gyathaar]

So all we need is ~75 cavs/rifles in Paris...

 

[leif erikson]

And make sure all military are outside of those cities.

EDIT - The best question of all is; How many will we lose on the way in and during the battle? Need another 20%?

 

[DJMGator13]

Good thing leif's version worked, I can't get the old Trade Assist to work.

@Willow - as Gyathaar said it was discussed that the specific flip was too detailed/spoilerish so it has been modified to show the range.


EDIT:

We could always do a massive poprushing round and reduce pop in all our core cities to help lower the number of units needed in Paris.

 

[leif erikson]

We could always do a massive poprushing round and reduce pop in all our core cities to help lower the number of units needed in Paris.

We may need every one of them in Paris to defend it unless we can take out more of France. I guess that is a point we should discuss; How much of France do we need to take out, or can we take out. If they are in Democracy, they will have their core, pumping out units, hell bent on throwing us out of Paris. While the AI isn't very good about attacking, eventually, they might do it, unless we can make and keep peace?

 

[DJMGator13]

Hopefully after we take a few cities we can get more AIs into the action against FRA and let them capture some of the outlaying cities. I have a feeling we will have to take out the bigger cities and face the brunt of the counter attacks.

We also need to leave some troops in our territory to protect against a French landing.

EDIT: today should help our Spam count, we're on our 2nd page of posts.

 

[Gyathaar]

Should I turn off research once we get Communism to start building up a cash excess? Is there anything else we need to research?

Definately turn off research.. doesnt seem like we can expect to make much more than 1-2gpt from any city unless it builds wealth or has taxmen... so as soon as a city has temple/library/cathedral it would to build wealth and make 2 taxmen to be even..

Btw.. this is a good reason to not jump directly into communism directly after we research it.. should build up a cash reserve of 2k or more gold if possible.. perhaps turn down research a bit to can do 0-turn anarchy when we are ready.

Maybe even capture Paris first.. my earlier statements was thinking communism in vanilla wasnt as bad in corruption as it is...

 

[WillowBrook]

So all we need is ~75 cavs/rifles in Paris...

Though once we draft all our cities down to towns, it won't be quite as many. Leif (or someone with Trade Assist) can rerun the calculation when the time comes.

I'm thinking the best plan, given the state of Vanilla Civ Communism, is to wait to switch governments until we flip the capitol (we have to at that point to stay within the GOTM rule about the rank-corruption bug). If there's a better time, let me know. And I'll reduce research accordingly (per Gyathaar's suggestion).

One more thing - any reason NOT to make peace with France if I can at some point? The only thing we possibly need rep for at this point is to get a ROP to get to Paris safely. If I can get peace, I won't get a ROP if it costs gpt unless I actually am ready to bring the troops in.

 

[leif erikson]

iirc, We have an alliance with the Vikings. Our reputation is far from pristine however, thought you should know. May want to sign an ROP or something before you sign peace in case you want to try to move units through Viking territory to get to France.

Good luck....

 

[DJMGator13]

General question:

I know that we can not add workers to cities to increase pop rushing ability, but can we disband drafted units in low shield cities to increase production (and if so is this also legal in xOTM games)?

Counting COTM10 I'm currently in three 100K games, so I'm starting to catch onto some of the tricks.

 

[WillowBrook]

General question:

I know that we can not add workers to cities to increase pop rushing ability, but can we disband drafted units in low shield cities to increase production (and if so is this also legal in xOTM games)?

Counting COTM10 I'm currently in three 100K games, so I'm starting to catch onto some of the tricks.

As far as I know, nothing has been said. And I believe it's been used extensively in the recent fast 100k xOTM games.

 

[WillowBrook]

Quick update here before I return to the game (I've spent over 7 hours on 5 turns) -

The Japanese are gone. I wasn't planning to take them out, as we want to get Paris ASAP. But Babylon allied them against us, so I finished them off with minimal losses.

The trans-continental Railroad is finished, and most of our towns are connected (it also allowed me to take out four of Japan's five cities in one turn).

Our military build-up continues, but we're still weak against France. We are, however, now average to Babylon and strong to the rest of the world.

Let's see - anything else of note? Atlanta built Magellan's....

Well, I took a break to go to the store and get food; now it's back to work. I mean play. I mean Civ.

 

[leif erikson]

Quick update here before I return to the game (I've spent over 7 hours on 5 turns) -

Thanks for the update. The turns do get long with so many cities!!

Well, I took a break to go to the store and get food; now it's back to work. I mean play. I mean Civ.

Food???? You mean there is something more important than Civ
Who am I to talk, I went to

 

[WillowBrook]

I vote that we start play 5 turns a piece! This took all day.

Here's my turn log; I'll post the save and then I need to sleep. I'll put together a summary/look ahead tomorrow.

First four turns:

Turn 0: 850 AD
F1: we can get Communism in 7 at 37gpt or in 13 at 177gpt. I put it at 7, but will change later.
F2: nothing interesting. I recall, however, that after our foray into France, we will want to capture wines from the Indians.
F3: 42 cav, 3 cannons. That will soon change. Weak to Babs and France, average to Americans, strong to everyone else.
F4: The only overland route to Paris would involve Babylon and some very undeveloped territory, so chances are slim we’d be able to make it more efficiently than from our current port at Xi’an. But a ROP with England could be useful, and she’ll do it straight up. We now have a ROP with England. And since we’ll break an alliance with the Vikings (who are polite?!? How have we managed that?) if we make peace with France, I make a ROP with them (he has apparently betrayed our friends the Japanese, but I don’t trust my advisor.) I give Japan one of our extra wool.
F5: culture=6827. 93,173 to go.
F6: we’re apparently a backward nation. I don’t trust this advisor, either.

Troops: I move some old units from our starting lands towards the recent acquisitions.

Cities: scrolled through and changed some builds to cannon, some libraries to cavalry, some towns to harbor, rushed a few builds, set resisting towns to as many tax collectors as possible, drafted a few citizens, sold a few barracks in towns that will never build military (with RR, no longer need them scattered across the land) and a (captured) bank.

Drafted rifles to newly acquired lands, note that our income is now 53gpt, take a deep breath, and press enter.

IBT: American troops moving out of our land
India and Viking sign peace treaty
a few Iroquois movements
America and China sign peace treaty
China moves settler/spear pair back
neoCarthage caravel near Xi’an
Japan and Babylon sign peace treaty
a few Japanese troops move.

Builds:
Shanghai: galleon => galleon
Nara: Temple => worker
Xinjian: settler => harbor
Hippo: worker => settler
Nagasaki: temple => harbor
Verulamuim: cavalry => cavalry
Shimonoseki: worker => temple
Sapporo: temple => worker
Dalanzagad: harbor => temple
Xi’an: cannon => cannon
Ise: temple => library
Nemausus: cavalry => cavalry
Choybalsan: cannon => cannon
Rutipiae: worker to library
New Deva: harbor => temple
Axima: harbor => temple
Durocartorum: cannon => harbor
New Agedincum: cannon => worker
Lund: temple => library
Gator’s point: harbor => temple
New Lindum: settler => worker
New Nemausus: harbor => library
New Monguntiacum: temple => worker
New Lezoux: temple => library
New Filnton: worker => Temple
C Carthagenis: temple => library
Tempus novum: temple => library
Entremont2: worker => temple

Turn 1: 860 AD
The French aren’t talking
Cannons, galleons, and some cavs to Xi’an
Workers (we now have 103): emphasize connecting our towns with RR.
Note to self: slaves and workers look the same in Vanilla Civ.
Found Central Pennsylvania (that’s where I’m from)

Battle for Akwesasne:
Army take out two regular spears and captures, all three citizens resisting.
Take out two other purple units. I wait to make peace until flip risks are lower

I spend a while contemplating taking out Japan first – I don’t think it would be that hard. But I finally decide to stick with the plan. Yes, there are flip risks, but not more than 1%.
I also realize we have differential navel movement…

Go through all the cities and rush a few projects, create taxpayers.

Press enter

Minor troop movement.
Kyoto: Worker => Settler
New Rutupiae: cannon => temple, sell barracks
Tokyo: worker => temple
Leptis Magna: settler => temple
Lugdunum: cannon => temple
Various starvings and resistors quelled
Agedincum: cavalry => cavalry
Hadrumetum: temple => harbor
Lindum: cannon => cannon
Testerleg: harbor => library
Arausio: galleon => library
New Entremont: cavalry => cavalry
New Curovernum: temple => harbor
New Augustodurum: worker => library
Willowbrook: Library => worker
New Segusio: cavalry => cannon (oops – no barracks there)
Mohacs 2: worker => temple
Lugdunum 2: worker => temple

The English start Universal Suffrage

Turn 2: 870 AD
And France still isn’t talking. The American have Communism, and the price just dropped. I lower research.

Massive troop build-up in Xi’an. RR extending through former Iroquois land.

Time to go through the cities again. Nothing interesting.

Press enter

American troops completely out of our land.
Indians want to trade territory maps. No problem.
NeoCarthage and Babylon sign peace treaty.
The trade embargo against use between China and France has ended.

Carthage: settler => library
Utica: temple => library
Quingdao: galleon => galleon
Hippo: settler => temple
New Lapurdum: temple => harbor
Augustordurum: cavalry => cavalry
Cantralia: temple => library
Matsuyama: temple => worker
Curuvernum: cavalry => cavalry
Choybalsan: cannon => library
Paoting: worker => temple
Camulodunum 2: worker => temple
New Glanum: cavalry => harbor
Something Easy to spell: Worker => temple

Turn 3: 880 AD
France still isn’t speaking. We’re down to 4 resisting towns.

Workers do a lot of RR. Next turn the transcontinental RR will be complete.

I attack an Iroquois pike, the last unit in my territory – and Orgetorix appears! I’ll poll the team to see if we want an army or something else.

Military stats (worth mentioning):
50 cavalry, 12 cannon, 13 rifles (but most of those are replacing cavs in former Iroquois territory), 9 galleon, 111 workers, and 89 slaves
We are now strong to America, average to Babylon, but still weak to France.

Go through all the cities.

Hit enter

NeoCarthage (NC) and China sign MA against Vikings, and NC declares on them.
Iroquois and NC sign alliance against America; Iroquois declare on America.
And guess what? Japan and Babylon sign alliance against us. So we’re at war with Japan again. Regular cav in town defeats attack samurai.

Karakorum: temple to (something…)
Kyoto: temple => worker
New Rutupiae: Temple => library
Nanjing: cavalry => cavalry
Catteragus: temple => worker
Camulodunum: cavalry => cavalry
Cirta: harbor => library
Ulaanbaatar: settler => harbor
Tatong: cannon => library
Hovd: settler => temple
Darhan: worker => library
New Curovernum: harbor => library
New Verulamium: cavalry => aqueduct
New Gergovia: cavalry => harbor
New Tolosa: temple => settler

Atlanta completes Magellan’s voyage

Turn 4: 890 AD
Since we’re at war with Japan again, probably best to take them out. I’m not making peace with the Iroquois until all their former cities are no longer resisting. India actually presents the biggest flip risk, but it’s max 1.359%.

I finish my trans-continental RR with a spur right to Japan’s borders, and then bring in troops to take out Japan. I wait to direct my remaining workers until Nagoya’s mine in case I want to build RR in what is not yet my territory.

The Unplanned but Very Successful Japanese War
The two wondering units provide no trouble.

Battle for Nagoya
14/14 cav army v. 4/4 sam => 7/14 army
3/3 cav v. 4/4 sam => 2/5 sam
3/3 cav v. 3/3 pike => 2/3 pike, cav retreats
3/3 cav v. 3/3 pike => 1/3 pike
3/3 cav v. 2/5 sam => 1/5 sam
4/4 cav v. 2/3 pike => 3/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 1/5 sam => 5/5 cav
3/3 cav v. 1/3 pike => 2/4 cav
and we capture the city, 5 of 7 citizens resisting, set to starve, sell barracks

battle for Yokohama
4/4 cav v. 3/3 pike => 1/3 pike
4/4 cav v. 1/3 pike => 4/4 cav, caravel destroyed
and town ours, only citizen is resisting

Countless workers and slaves are moved in to build the Kyoto to Middle of Nowhere RR (six sections of RR). But cavalry can reach Toyama and Fukushima from there, so it’s worth the tedium.

Battle for Toyama
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 5/5 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 3/4 spear
4/4 cav v. 3/4 spear => 2/4 cav
and the city is ours. It’s only citizen is Keltoi?!?!? He is happy.
Sell barracks, start harbor.

Battle for Fukushima
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 3/4 spear
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 4/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/4 spear => 3/4 spear, cav retreats
4/4 cav v/ 3/4 spear => 3/4 cav,
and it’s ours, only citizen resisting. Sell barracks and start temple

now we have to see if we can get to Osaka this turn. There are still many workers not used… but not enough to get there. So 8 cavalry move into place outside Osaka. There’s a musket in there – Babylon must have bribed them with saltpeter.

Found Mountain Meadow, Bay View, and Pristine Peaks, start temples.

Time to go through the cities.

Press enter
Various ship movements. There’s a French pair off the coast of former China.

Beijing: cav => cav
Ta-Tu: herbor => library
Kagoshima: settler => harbor
Hangzhou: cavalry => aquaduct
Leptis Minor: worker => temple
Ratae C: cav => cav
Glanon: cannon => harbor
Chendu: cannon => library
New Glevum: worker => temple
New Glanum: cannon => library

The English start Universal Suffrage (they did that 2 turns ago…)

 

[WillowBrook]

Last six turns

Turn 5: 900 AD
I decide to make peace with Hiawatha. He won’t give us his only non-capitol city (the English and Vikings have taken the others), but I take his WM and all his gold (40). I don’t think he’ll last long, with 4 or 5 other civs fighting him.

France isn’t speaking with us.

Battle for Osaka
4/4 cav v. 4/4 musket => 2/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 3/4 cav
and we destroy Osaka, and the Solid Japanese.

I’m looking at our shipping route to Paris. A ROP with NeoCarthage and the American would be nice. So I check it out.
Establish ROP with neoCarthage for their WM and 7g (all).
Establish ROP straight up with Americans.

Diversifying my worker actions a bit now that the transcontinental railroad is finished – looking for grassland to RR, useless mines to irrigate.

Found By the Sea, Rolling Hills, and Southern Exposure, start temples.

Go through all the towns.

Almost press enter. Realizing that 12 galleons just won’t cut it, rush several more, and almost press enter again. Decide to lower research to get Communism in 5. Anything else? Okay.

Press enter.

India and England sign alliance against Iroquois, leading to India declaring war. I wonder who will get their last two cities.
China lands two units on New Paris Island (just east of former China)

Utica: galleon => library
Guangzhou: galleon => galleon
Mohacs: cavalry => cavalry
Alnarikh: harbor => library
Tabriz: harbor => library (and sell barracks)
Sabratha: galleon => temple
Cataractonium: cavalry => cavalry
Deva: cavalry => settler (and sell barracks)
Lezoux: cavalry => cavalry
Noviomagnus: cannon => library
New Richborough: cavalry => cavalry
New Gergovia: galleon => library
New Budigala: cavalry => galleon
Resort Gyathaar: galleon => library
Augustodurum 2: Worker => temple

Turn 6: 910 AD
France will talk! But what will she say?
What’s with this!?!!?!! She will give peace treaty, ROP, Communism, WM, and 22g (NOT all her gold)!!! I feel really bad, since we’re going to abuse that ROP. But I make the deal.

I set research to electricity on 10%. And note that my military advisor claims we are still weak to France. But then why did she make peace w/o a shot fired?
I start loading up galleons to see what I have, one cannon, one rifle, and two cavs per boat.

Almost forgot to got through all the cities before pressing enter.
Go through all the cities

Press enter

Vikings and Iroquois sign peace treaty.
England wants a trade embargo against the Chinese. But she’ll only pay us 8 gold for it. She will give me all her gold (77) in a WM trade, though, so I do that.
Chinese longbow takes out a unit in New Paris.

Allegheny: temple=> library
Mauch Chunk: Worker => temple
Tatong: library => cathedral
Burdigala: settler => library
Hakodate: temple => library
Kaifeng: harbor => library
Glanum: harbor => library
Mandalgovi: temple => library
New Lugdunum: cavalry => cavalry
New Eboracum: galleon => library
Leif’s Hideaway: galleon => harbor
New Segusio: cannon => library
Agedincum 2: temple => library

Turn 7: 920 AD
Centralia’s border expansion stole wine from the Indians. We now have 8 of 9 luxes.
And we are average v. France!

River’s Bend founded.

I send off nine galleons toward Paris, eight carrying a cannon, rifle, and 2 cavs each, and one with a cav army. Another fleet will set off in a few turns.

I check with Hammurabi, and he’s willing to give us all his gold (177) and WM for peace. I take the deal.

I set our research to 0 and put a single scientist to work in Nagoya.

Time to go through all the cities.

Press enter
Americans want an embargo against the Iroquois. I don’t like to entangle myself is such dealings, so I offer to trade WM (he has no money). He agrees.
Vikings want embargo v. China. We trade WM instead (and get all 6 of his gold).

Salamanca: worker => temple
Shanghai: galleon => cavalry
Satsuma: temple => harbor
Guangzhou: galleon => cavalry
Culture flip!!! Xinjian flips to France. According to mapstat, it only had a 0.015-0.056% chance of flipping. But given that we have 30 or so towns with similarly small chances, we shouldn’t be surprised.
Oil Springs: worker => temple
Eboracum 2: worker => temple
St. Regis: worker => temple
Agenincum: cavalry => cavalry
Eboracum: cannon => temple
Lindum: temple => library
Segusio: cannon => library
Noviomagnus: settler => library
Durocortorum: harbor => library
New Mohas: cavalry => library
New Burdigala: galleon => library

Turn 8: 930 AD
More moving and loading ships, Lazy Summer founded.
And of course, lots of roading, RR, and irrigating.
Go through the towns.
Press enter

NeoCarthage and India sign alliance against China. Maybe China will be gone soon?

Niagra Falls: Worker => temple
Edo: Temple => library
Lugdunum: temple => library
Theveste: settler => library
Qingdao: galleon => cavalry
Lapurdum: cavalry => cavalry
“My Will”: Temple => library (where’d that name come from???)
Glevum: temple => library
Richborough2: temple => library
Mandalgovi: explorer (forgot to change short-rush ) => library
New RC: cavalry => library
Leif’s hideaway: harbor => library
New Noviomagnus: temple => library
Alan’s cabin: temple => library

Turn 9: 940 AD
I note that India has industrialization but not Communism, and he’s willing to trade and give us his WM and all 79 of his gold. So we trade.

Lots of worker actions, more ships loaded and sent toward Paris.

Time to go through the towns.

Press space

England and Iroquois sign peace treaty.
Grand River: worker => library
Roghborough: cavalry => cavalry
Ulaanbaatar: harbor => library
Verulamium: cavalry => cavalry
Gergovia 2: temple => library
Caughnawaga: worker => temple
Edernet: temple => library
New Camulodunum: cavalry => library

Turn 10: 950 AD
Moving more troops onto ships and into France. Workers irrigate, road, RR, and chop.

 

[leif erikson]

Looks like you've got the French connection about hooked up!!

I knew you were a true X-Team'er and would never allow the Japanese to co-exist with us.

Very good work!!

 

[AlanH]

Great work WillowBrook Nice work on Japan, I hate loose ends

Gyathaar - On deck
AlanH
Tomoyo
leif erikson
WillowBrook - just played
DJMGator13 UP

Now the turns are getting longer, if anyone prefers to take five at a time, please do so.

Go Gator.

 

[DJMGator13]

Nice work Willow.

I'm working a half day today, but should be able to get to this tonight or tomorrow. I haven't had time to look at the save yet so fell free to post anything that I should be aware of or need to concentrate on, other than gaining the Pyramids and putting the hurt on France for 2 games in a row. I'm glad to see we are average to them.

 

[WillowBrook]

Summary and Outlook

I must say I'm pleased with the results, though it took a lot more time than I would have liked. And getting tired near the end didn't help (and I think I'm coming down with something, too - are we sure this game doesn't have a bug of the biological sort? )

Research
I'd slowed the research on Communism, and then France (of all countries ), gives it to us for peace in 910. I traded Communism to the Indians for industrialization. We won't use it, but we can see when the next techs are out. France recently got the corporation. Since there are grasslands with no access to water, we will want electricity, so I set a single scientist (in Nagoya) researching it to lower the price when we decide to buy it (no one has it yet).

At some point soon we should make a list of techs we do NOT want to acquire. For example, RP would take away the 40s cannon and combustion the 60s galleon.

Cash
We have 2776 g in the bank and are bringing in 229 gpt. Tax rate is 100%. So the corruption of Communism shouldn't hurt us for a little while.

Luxes
We now have 8 of 9 luxes, as a culture expansion stole the wines on the Indian/former Iroquois border from the Indians. There are gems in NW France, so we may want to consider acquiring them at some point after Paris is in hand.

Military
We have 121 workers (plus the eqWorker)
25 rifles
65 cavalry
20 cannon
21 galleon
2 armies (filled with cavs)
29 miscellaneous other units
That's 284 units total. Communism gives 2 units free per town, so that number will be no problem.
I still have the most productive cities building cavs, as we're nowhere near the domination limit (in fact, barely halfway there).
Our military is average to France and Babylon, strong to everyone else. We only very recently became average to France.

Paris Plans
When Joan finally decided we were worth talking to, she not only gave us Communism for peace, but a ROP. So rather than have to navigate treacherous waters and bring in everything at once, we get to walk right up to Paris.

An army, 8 cannon, 8 rifles, and 16 cavs have been unloaded next to Avignon. Galleons carrying another army, 5 rifles, 11 cannon, and 27 cavs are within 3 or 4 turns of her coast (don't miss the one south of Albuquerque). There are still 10 cavs and a cannon in Xi'an, and one of the galleons just off the coast from Xi'an can take another unit. I hope that I cancelled the GoTo orders on the ships....

Several things to note when we declare on France.
- Xinjian flipped; there are cavs in nearly cities that should be able to take it back.
- We might want to take the four French cities to the east of former China. We've got plenty of galleons for transporting troops.
- France has several ironclads and a frigate running around - be careful.

Diplomacy
We have ROPs with England and the Vikings (850), America and Carthage (900), and France (910). I've turned down some trade embargo offers, as I wasn't sure how we wanted to treat such things.

Land improvements
At least a third of my playing time was spent on worker actions, connecting cities with RR, RR grassland and bonus tiles, irrigating, chopping forest on grassland, etc. While completing the RR connections, I would complete each tile all in one turn. But that meant that I would have to move many of our 200+ workers and slaves each turn, so I shifted to using stacks that would complete the job in 2 or 3 turns, mostly. It was still a lot of work.

Once we switch to Communism, we'll have a bunch of irrigating in our now-productive cities to do.

New towns
For the most part, I tried to settle new towns in places where there would be lots of food, but a few were to fill in unclaimed territory or just at my whim. We now have 161 cities.

Culture
We are gaining culture (237 cpt) faster than France now (193 cpt), but still not as fast as Babylon (252 cpt ). But we don't have anything to worry about if we can reach 100k in less than 100 turns or so.

City builds
I started building, often rushing, temples in every non-productive town that didn't have one. I usually waited until there were ten shields in the box so as to use only one citizen. I also started a lot of libraries, but with the intention that, if the town has reached size 4 by the time there are 10 sheilds in the box, we should rush a settler. There is lots and lots of good land in former Japan that should be filled in ASAP.

I also built a lot of harbors.

At least another third of my playing time was spent going through cities and checking if anything needed to be done. As Gyathaar pointed our earlier, if a town is having to work a tile that gives less than two food, that citizen should be whipped (bad citizen ). And then there's checking to see if the town is big enough to whip the whole project or if a different project (like a settler) should be whipped. Once we have Paris and have switched to Communism, towns will grow much faster, and this part will take even longer. And it will get more complicated as food-rich towns that have completed the four cultural buildings start drafting, giving us 20 shields to use anywhere.