DJMGator13
Still breathing
Sounds good, have fun with your turns Alan.
SGOTM6 - Xteam
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
@WillowBrook. tao have increased their culture rate.
Scaling from the graph, very approximately by eye, I'd say they went from around 41000 to 52000 to 65000 during their last two sets. That would indicate an increase from about 1100 cpt to 1300 cpt, or +20 cpt per turn. Prior to that they were at about 32000 giving 900 cpt. So their rate of change of cpt is consistent at about 20 cpt per turn - 10 temples or 7 libraries/cathedrals.
Scaling from the graph, very approximately by eye, I'd say they went from around 41000 to 52000 to 65000 during their last two sets. That would indicate an increase from about 1100 cpt to 1300 cpt, or +20 cpt per turn. Prior to that they were at about 32000 giving 900 cpt. So their rate of change of cpt is consistent at about 20 cpt per turn - 10 temples or 7 libraries/cathedrals.
WillowBrook
Lurker
What do we need to do to catch up?
DJMGator13
Still breathing
We need to increase our cpt at a much higher rate. The key could be how much land and how many cities they have. If we can get our 325 cites (est) up to a 5cpt level (temple and library) quicker then they did we would be at a 1625cpt rate without counting doubling, Wonders, col, cath or unis.
So our focus should be on settlers, temples and libraries.
BTW, I just posted my COTM10 100K results in the second spoiler, if anyone is interested. Can't talk specifics here (outside the spoilers) but I learned a lot.
So our focus should be on settlers, temples and libraries.
BTW, I just posted my COTM10 100K results in the second spoiler, if anyone is interested. Can't talk specifics here (outside the spoilers) but I learned a lot.
At their current rate of cpt and delta cpt per turn, tao will reach 100K in 1420 AD - 53 turns from our current date.
We are currently at 12609 + 472cpt. Our cpt increased by an average of 29 per turn during Gyathaar's turns, but this may not be typical of our current rate once we are flat out pop rushing in Communism. If we continued at that rate of increase we'd reach 100K in 1475 AD - 11 turns too late.
Our average rate of increase has to be 47 cpt per turn to achieve 1420 AD. That means we have to build 24 temples, or 16 libraries/cathedrals, or 12 universities per turn, or a mix. Gyathaar reported about 12 culture builds per turn, mixed with settlers. We need at least 50% more than that.
We are currently at 12609 + 472cpt. Our cpt increased by an average of 29 per turn during Gyathaar's turns, but this may not be typical of our current rate once we are flat out pop rushing in Communism. If we continued at that rate of increase we'd reach 100K in 1475 AD - 11 turns too late.
Our average rate of increase has to be 47 cpt per turn to achieve 1420 AD. That means we have to build 24 temples, or 16 libraries/cathedrals, or 12 universities per turn, or a mix. Gyathaar reported about 12 culture builds per turn, mixed with settlers. We need at least 50% more than that.
WillowBrook
Lurker
Good luck in finding that 47 cptpt, Alan! 
Are there any food-maximization techniques we're missing?
We already know we need to
- partial rush in towns working < 2fpt tiles
- make sure towns use all food available and try not to waste extra food
- build harbors in low food coast towns
- draft at size 7 to get the town-sized food box back
- keep the pyramids (duh!)
- stay in Communism as long as financially feasible
Are there any food-maximization techniques we're missing?
We already know we need to
- partial rush in towns working < 2fpt tiles
- make sure towns use all food available and try not to waste extra food
- build harbors in low food coast towns
- draft at size 7 to get the town-sized food box back
- keep the pyramids (duh!)
- stay in Communism as long as financially feasible
DJMGator13
Still breathing
There's not much we could have done differently up to this point, Team Tao has benefitted from a closer Pyramid. Hopefully that has left them with a stronger BAB and FRA to deal with later in their game. Maybe we can wish a nice long war with France on them.
We have 207 cities currently and 51 without any culture. We just really have to maximize our rushing each turn and play smartly, not fast. Don't really know what else we can do. Hopefully we can outpace them at the end.
We have 207 cities currently and 51 without any culture. We just really have to maximize our rushing each turn and play smartly, not fast. Don't really know what else we can do. Hopefully we can outpace them at the end.
WillowBrook
Lurker
I noticed that teams Peanut and RowAndLive (playing PTW) have culture curves ahead of tao's and almost on top of each other. It will be interesting to see if they stay together since team Peanut is doing much better Fixaris score-wise.
Looked at the save and I agree with Gator that we need to play smart. 
My wish list is to take the French cities of Besancon, Grenoble, Tours, Bayonne, Poitiers and Brest before we make peace with them. However, I don't think we have the cav strength to pull it off, atm, even with cannons. Would it do us any good to try to really push culture for, say, 10 turns and then switch back to despotism for some turns to pump out some more cavs? Then we would play an active defense until the cavs arrived?
I am thinking we need to pump up the culture per turn as a first priority and then think about kicking France as a second.
My wish list is to take the French cities of Besancon, Grenoble, Tours, Bayonne, Poitiers and Brest before we make peace with them. However, I don't think we have the cav strength to pull it off, atm, even with cannons. Would it do us any good to try to really push culture for, say, 10 turns and then switch back to despotism for some turns to pump out some more cavs? Then we would play an active defense until the cavs arrived?
I am thinking we need to pump up the culture per turn as a first priority and then think about kicking France as a second.
I started playing, and did some preflight MM and rushes, and have a question before I get too far into it. Sorry if this was covered in the discussions on pop rush tactics earlier.
I've been looking at high food towns that can grow at 10fpt. For example, a town with pop 5 may be able to grow to 6 next turn and 7 in 2 turns. If I rush a cathedral or library for 4 citizens now it'll drop to pop 1, and take 6 turns to get back to pop 4 where it can produce 10fpt again. If I leave it to grow for two more turns I lose 2 turns at 3 cpt, but I can then draft a rifle and rush the improvement leaving 2 citizens. It'll then get back to 10fpt by the same date.
I think the trade-off is 6 culture points over the next two turns vs one extra pop point (as a rifle) in 2 turns time. In round figures, a pop point buys us about 1cpt, so in 8 turns we're at break even, and we're winning after that if we delay the pop rush. Note that we also delay the maintenance cost of the improvement for 2 turns. So it looks like we should always let these towns grow to pop 7 before drafting and rushing. Is this logic OK, or am I missing anything?
I've been looking at high food towns that can grow at 10fpt. For example, a town with pop 5 may be able to grow to 6 next turn and 7 in 2 turns. If I rush a cathedral or library for 4 citizens now it'll drop to pop 1, and take 6 turns to get back to pop 4 where it can produce 10fpt again. If I leave it to grow for two more turns I lose 2 turns at 3 cpt, but I can then draft a rifle and rush the improvement leaving 2 citizens. It'll then get back to 10fpt by the same date.
I think the trade-off is 6 culture points over the next two turns vs one extra pop point (as a rifle) in 2 turns time. In round figures, a pop point buys us about 1cpt, so in 8 turns we're at break even, and we're winning after that if we delay the pop rush. Note that we also delay the maintenance cost of the improvement for 2 turns. So it looks like we should always let these towns grow to pop 7 before drafting and rushing. Is this logic OK, or am I missing anything?
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I'm not sure - this is probably best answered by Gyathaar.
My thoughts would be that we need to wait awhile for the city to grow after rushing a bigger item like a cathedral(3)/col(2)/uni(4) anyway, so we might as well take advantage of the quicker cpt. On a single city issue I don't think it will matter much, but if we are talking about 3 cities each turn that would equate to 9/6/12cpt while waiting for 3 rifles.
But I'd see what Gyathaar thinks first.
My thoughts would be that we need to wait awhile for the city to grow after rushing a bigger item like a cathedral(3)/col(2)/uni(4) anyway, so we might as well take advantage of the quicker cpt. On a single city issue I don't think it will matter much, but if we are talking about 3 cities each turn that would equate to 9/6/12cpt while waiting for 3 rifles.
But I'd see what Gyathaar thinks first.
Another question: Why can't I draft in Cataractonium? It's at pop 7 - what would be stopping it?
lurker's comment: Could it be because it's all foreign citizens?
Hmm..., does the city have an aquaduct? Or is it on fresh water? Not sure if it has anything do to with it, but I remember something like that during one of the milk-runs.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Yes, I can believe you're still in preflight-mode.
I'm not sure why you can't draft though.
I'll be home in a few hours and can check into it, unless you and Space figure it out before then.
I'm not sure why you can't draft though.
I'll be home in a few hours and can check into it, unless you and Space figure it out before then.
Well, I must say I haven't a clue yet. You did draft in other cities, didn't you? So it doesn't have anything to do wih being at war or anything like that. 
Strange.
Strange.
WillowBrook
Lurker
I found that when cycling through cities with the arrows by the city names the draft button often (usually? always?) wouldn't show up. But if I exited the city screen to normal view and double clicked on the city it would show up. I just loaded the game and it shows the draft button when I enter the city screen by double-clicking.
As for one-turn growth, I'm thinking it wouldn't be wasteful to go ahead and build the next thing in a city with 10fpt if it frees up enough food to reduce growth time by at least a turn in at least two neighboring cities. But it seems best to wait until size 7 if the extra food is otherwise uneeded (though that's my gut interpretation of the hard numbers; it doesn't come from any further calculations).
As for one-turn growth, I'm thinking it wouldn't be wasteful to go ahead and build the next thing in a city with 10fpt if it frees up enough food to reduce growth time by at least a turn in at least two neighboring cities. But it seems best to wait until size 7 if the extra food is otherwise uneeded (though that's my gut interpretation of the hard numbers; it doesn't come from any further calculations).
I s'pose that's it! Good catch, Willow. 
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