Culture per city is at almost 120.. not 12AlanH said:
You are thinking about cpt per city that will go towards 12 with those improvements
SGOTM6 - Xteam
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
You are thinking about cpt per city that will go towards 12 with those improvements
Actually, we should see the CPT per city move towards 8 as we we haven't built that many Universities and, as we don't plan to at this point, thus the need for more cities to build culture in.Gyathaar said:Culture per city is at almost 120.. not 12
Just did some scribbling on the back of a piece of paper and figured that to build a University in 300 cities would require 60,000 shields (200 per University per city) or 3,000 citizens! This would give us 4 culture per turn each, or 1200 CPT. A return of 0.4 culture points per citizen.
To build a Temple, Library and Cathedral would require 57,000 shields, or 2,850 citizens! This would give us 8 CPT per city or 2400 culture per turn. A return of 0.84 culture points per citizen.
Seems much more efficient to build more cities when possible and skip the University.
WillowBrook
Lurker
Sorry I didn't add anything to the discussion last night (something was strange with my internet connection - I could get to some websites but not others 
).
I just added 59 cpt; we're now in 1275 with 41657 culture and 1889 cpt. I'm going to play a bit more in this turn and then upload the save so everyone can see that we haven't run into major trouble so far. (No one better attack us in the next five turns, or I'll want copious quantities of advice on how to deal with it!) I should be able to play 5 more turns today and tomorrow.
As for uni's, it's true that they only give us .4 culture per citizen, but in towns that can't draft, 10 citizens only translates into 50 movable shields, which gives us .333 c/citizen (temples) or .1875 c/citizen (library). So I'm building 8-turn universities in the fastest growing of such towns if (and only if) neighboring towns don't need the food for either drafting or cheaper culture builds.
Note also that it's never worth building a coliseum as long as there are towns without temples - 6 native pop gives either 2 cpt from a coliseum and 2 gpt maintenance or or 30 movable shields that can become a temple for 2 cpt and only 1 gpt maintenance.
We still have plenty of places for towns; at the beginning of 1275 we had 329 towns, and I plan to keep them coming. And only four turns until electricity! The jungle in former Western India will soon be gone, and our workers can move to former Southern Carthage (and, yes, I continue to move workers to Old France, as well)
).I just added 59 cpt; we're now in 1275 with 41657 culture and 1889 cpt. I'm going to play a bit more in this turn and then upload the save so everyone can see that we haven't run into major trouble so far. (No one better attack us in the next five turns, or I'll want copious quantities of advice on how to deal with it!) I should be able to play 5 more turns today and tomorrow.
As for uni's, it's true that they only give us .4 culture per citizen, but in towns that can't draft, 10 citizens only translates into 50 movable shields, which gives us .333 c/citizen (temples) or .1875 c/citizen (library). So I'm building 8-turn universities in the fastest growing of such towns if (and only if) neighboring towns don't need the food for either drafting or cheaper culture builds.
Note also that it's never worth building a coliseum as long as there are towns without temples - 6 native pop gives either 2 cpt from a coliseum and 2 gpt maintenance or or 30 movable shields that can become a temple for 2 cpt and only 1 gpt maintenance.
We still have plenty of places for towns; at the beginning of 1275 we had 329 towns, and I plan to keep them coming. And only four turns until electricity! The jungle in former Western India will soon be gone, and our workers can move to former Southern Carthage (and, yes, I continue to move workers to Old France, as well)
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Willow - you may want to bring a few troops home from Old France just to allow us some protection and quick response. I'm not sure how many are already in the south but I'd bring a quarter to a third of our cavs home. With rails we should be able to defend the whole southern region with a handful of troops. If attacked just draft rifles and move them all to the front for defense. So, it's important to rail all new cities into the network asap.
The good thing is that we still have India between us and the Babs, and I can't recall if we border America. So hopefully if the AIs get hungry for more cities they have easier targets than us to focus on.
Take your time with your turns. I may be going out of town for the day on Sunday, so probably can't play over the weekend anyway.
The good thing is that we still have India between us and the Babs, and I can't recall if we border America. So hopefully if the AIs get hungry for more cities they have easier targets than us to focus on.
Take your time with your turns. I may be going out of town for the day on Sunday, so probably can't play over the weekend anyway.
WillowBrook
Lurker
Check out our culture graph! I've just uploaded a 1275 BC save. The bad news is that I don't think I'll be able to add more than about 40 cpt this turn. 
As Gator has given me the okay and no one's objected, I'll play 5 more turns this weekend.
I'll also bring one army and some of our cavs to the home area in case India gets fresh. I think we can expect to be able to draft at least 10 rifles per turn for the rest of the game (and likely many more).
I suspect the biggest threat is England and most of our military is over there already. Also, a culture expansion now will let me found a town that will take what I think is their only source of horses. (BTW - check out Bobby Moore on the hill next to London - do the AI usually do this?
)
I've just uploaded a 1275 BC save. The bad news is that I don't think I'll be able to add more than about 40 cpt this turn. As Gator has given me the okay and no one's objected, I'll play 5 more turns this weekend.
I'll also bring one army and some of our cavs to the home area in case India gets fresh. I think we can expect to be able to draft at least 10 rifles per turn for the rest of the game (and likely many more).
I suspect the biggest threat is England and most of our military is over there already. Also, a culture expansion now will let me found a town that will take what I think is their only source of horses. (BTW - check out Bobby Moore on the hill next to London - do the AI usually do this?
)
WillowBrook
Lurker
Here's the turn log (a bit of turn two is repeated from about a week ago). And Turn 5 clearly is not complete.
1260 AD: Turn 2
Culture: 36156; cities: 292
I note that both the English and Vikings are average to us militarily (and at war with each other). We continue to be weak to the Babs and Americans and strong to everyone else.
draft rifles in Deva 2, Nara, Lazy Summer, Glanum 2, Willowbrook, New Lugdunum, New Richborough
Rush marketplace in Lazy Summer due to unhappiness.
Found Shimmer, Crows Rest, Silk and Water, Worlds Best Venison, Panama Lite, Amber Overlook, Extra Virgin, Baa, Yesterday, Water Everywhere, Mountain Pass
Much moving of workers, including ship-chaining a bunch to Old France.
Rushed builds:
Cattaragus: cathedral (with 1 rifle, 1 pop)
New Montguntiacum 2: cathedral
Eboracum 3: temple (with 1 rifle)
Hovd: explorer
Hippo: cathedral
New Curovernum: explorer
Durhan: explorer
New Segusio: cannon
Ningpo: cathedral (with 2 rifles, 2 pop)
Karakorum: cannon, later switched to settler
Leptis Magna: harbor
Tabriz: explorer
(posted to here)
New Lapurdum: settler
Cirta: explorer, later changed to settler (to be rushed w/cannon next turn)
Ulanbaater: 2 pop toward uni
Yokohama: cathedral (with 1 cannon)
Tonawanda: harbor (with cannon) (it has an aqueduct that should be used)
Gergovia: explorer
Augustodorum: marketplace
Skiers heaven: explorer
Tolosa: explorer
Dalandzadad: explorer
Hakodate: 2 pop toward uni
Ise: explorer
By the Sea: Settler
Nemausus: explorer
Curovernum: settler
Segusio: cannon
Paoting: settler
Tseterleg: explorer
Monguntiacum: cannon
Mandalgovi: harbor
New Entremont: explorer
Fukushima: explorer
Carthago Novo: cannon
New Arausio: explorer, changed to settler to be rushed w/ cannon next turn
New Burdigala: cannon
New Tolosa: settler
New Nemousus: cannon
New Isca: explorer
New Noviomagnus: 2 pop toward uni
Entremont 2: cannon
Lugdunem 2: explorer
Agedincum 2: settler
Rolling hills: settler
Lapurdum 3: temple
Lapurdum 2: settler
New Lugdunum: cathedral
New Augustodurum: cannon
New Tolosa 2: cathedral
X Marks the Spot: cathedral
The other place: cathedral
Somewhere else: cathedral
New Glevum 2: cathedral
Mohacs 3: 2 pop toward lib
Burdigala 3: temple
Cataractonium 3: temple
Curovernum 3: temple
Isca 3: temple
New Richborough: marketplace (with cannon, explorer, and 4 pop)
Noviomagnus 3: temple (with explorer and rifle)
Lezoux 3: temple (with explorer and 1 pop)
Go through all towns to MM for food and taxes.
Press Enter
Various military movements.
All the above completed builds complete, towns set to wealth.
1265 AD: Turn 3
Culture: 37937 (1781 cpt); cities: 305
Found the following cities: Flowing Water, Not My Job, Sandy Beach, Dragons Lair, Snow Angel, Partial, Purple Moo-moo, Cold Comfort, With Love, Ensasewka Mirror, All Mine, Deforestation, Rocky Lake, Part of the Problem
Rifles drafted: Glanum 2, New Cataractonium 2, Tokyo, Deva 2, Nara, Tolosa 2, Willowbrook, Shanghai, Brest
Rushed builds:
Camulodunum: marketplace
Brest: cathedral
Utica: harbor
Satsuma: settler (with cannon and 1 pop)
Grand river: 2 pop toward uni
Lugdunum: cannon
Almarihk: cathedral (with explorer and 3 pop)
Cirta: settler (with cannon)
Nagasaki: cannon
Burdigala: cannon
Cherbourg: temple (w/ 1 cannon, 1 pop)
Isca: cannon
Cadiz: library
Chendu: settler
Richborough 2: explorer
Durocortorum 2: explorer
New Cataractonium: explorer
New Gergovia: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
New Arousio: settler (with cannon)
New Eboracum: harbor
Leifs Hideaway: settler
Augustodurum 2: settler (with 1 rifle)
Pristine Peaks: settler
Southern Exposure: harbor
Rivers Bend: settler (with 1 rifle)
RC 2: to pop toward uni
Segusio 2: cathedral
Rutupiae 2: 2 pop toward uni
Glevum 2: cannon
Lezoux 2: harbor
Arousio 2: cathedral
New RC 2: library
New Curovernum 2: library
New Noviomagnus 2: library
New Arousio 2: library
Lugdunum 3: harbor (with 1 rifle)
Richborough 3: library
Monguntiacum: temple
Axima 3: temple (with cannon and chop)
New Entremont 3: temple (with explorer and rifle)
Mountain Hideaway: temple (with exp, rifle, and chop)
Jungle Paradise: temple (with exp and rifle)
Cataractonium 2: settler (with 2 exp and rifle)
Entrmont 3: library (with 2 rifles and 2 pop)
Lindum 2: library (with warrior, 4 exp, 2 pop)
Tatong: settler (with 2 exp and 1 pop)
Glevum 3: temple (with 2 exp, 1 cannon)
Sell WM around for all 3g Carthage, all 11g Viking, 11 of 14g American, 14g from Elizabeth, 13g and WM from Hammi, and 30g from Joan
Move xtra explorer to Xian, space ironclad, take a deep breath and
Press Enter
Miscellaneous troop movement (France continues to move out of our territory good)
All the above builds complete, towns set to wealth
1270 AD: Turn 4
Culture: 39768 (1831 cpt, 50cptpt); 319 towns
draft rifles (16) in Glanum 2, Kyoto, New Cataractonium 2, Tokyo, Deva 2, Nara, Curovernum 2, Avingon, Tolosa 2, Willowbrook, New Lugdunum, Quingdao, Beijing, Shanghai, Cataractonium, Ratae Coritanorum
Towns built (10): Innocent Spies, Approaching the Thames, Lets Get Along, Brazen Land Grab, Blue Ice, Not So Sandy Beach, Shepherds View, Quiet Pines, Lonely Point, Tierra del Fuego, Die Dye
(no longer recording 2 pop toward uni, as its clear whats happening)
rushed builds:
New Cataractonium: cathedral
Alans Cabin: marketplace
Salamanca: marketplace
New Mohacs 3: temple (with explorer and 1 pop)
Lund: cathedral (with 1 rifle, 2 pop)
Lyon: library
Guangzhou: cathedral (with 1 rifle, 3 pop)
Shimonoseki: cannon
New Noviomagnus: marketplace
Kagoshima: cannon
Theveste: cannon
Mauch Chunk: settler
New Lapurdum 2: library
Dijon: library
New Entremont 3: harbor
Lapurdum: cathedral (1 rifle, 3 pop)
Noviomagnus: cathedral
Xian: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Qianqin: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Capiendum C: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Augustodurum 2: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Somewhere Else: harbor
New Burdigala: cathedral
New Lindum: library (1 rifle, 3 pop)
New Glanum 2: cathedral
New Segusio 2: cannon
X marks the spot: cannon
Verulamium 3: library
Deva 3: temple (with rifle)
New Agedincum: cannon
Glanum: settler
Verulamium 2: library
Toyama: library (2 rifle, 2 pop)
Leeds: library
New Mohacs: settler
Burdigala 2: library (1 rifle, 3 pop)
Deva: harbor
Glanum 3: library (2 rifle, 2 pop)
New Glanum: harbor
Middle of Nowhere: library (2 rifle, 2 pop)
Go through cities again for food and taxes, check civassist, pause unused explorers (theyll be useful next turn)
Press Enter
Viking want to see me. We trade territory maps. I offer wines, but they arent interested.
The Iroquois want to trade world maps. I agree.
Miscellaneous troop movements.
Above builds complete, towns set to wealth
1275 AD: Turn 5
Culture: 41657 (1889 cpt, 58cptpt)
Lots of unhappiness: draft and then use rifle and 4 pop to build marketplaces in Tokyo, Avignon, Willowbrook, New Gergovia 2. Switch university builds to marketplaces (rush where necessary) in Ulaanbaatar, Mountain Meadow, Hakodate. Use 2 rifles to complete marketplace in Mohacs.
Draft also in: Richborough, RC, Agedincum, Catarctonium, Shanghai, Beijing, Qingdao, Tolosa 2, Curovernum 2, Nara, Deva 2, New Verulamium 2, Glanum 2, Camulodunum 2, Orleans, Tours
Add two pop to unis in: Rutupiae 2, RC 2, Eboracum 2, Grand River
Cities founded: Death of a Forest,
Rushed builds (besides markets listed above):
Nagoya: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Oil Springs: settler
Nagasaki: explorer
Yokohama: explorer
Gergovia: cannon
Akwesasne: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Skiers Heaven: explorer
Darhan: explorer
Dalandzadgad: explorer
Mandelgovi: explorer
New Curovernum: cannon
New Isca: cannon
Dearest: cannon
Mohacs 2: settler
New Rheims: harbor (with 1 cannon, 1 pop)
Segusio 2: cannon
Durocorturum 3: temple (with cannon and chop)
1260 AD: Turn 2
Culture: 36156; cities: 292
I note that both the English and Vikings are average to us militarily (and at war with each other). We continue to be weak to the Babs and Americans and strong to everyone else.
draft rifles in Deva 2, Nara, Lazy Summer, Glanum 2, Willowbrook, New Lugdunum, New Richborough
Rush marketplace in Lazy Summer due to unhappiness.
Found Shimmer, Crows Rest, Silk and Water, Worlds Best Venison, Panama Lite, Amber Overlook, Extra Virgin, Baa, Yesterday, Water Everywhere, Mountain Pass
Much moving of workers, including ship-chaining a bunch to Old France.
Rushed builds:
Cattaragus: cathedral (with 1 rifle, 1 pop)
New Montguntiacum 2: cathedral
Eboracum 3: temple (with 1 rifle)
Hovd: explorer
Hippo: cathedral
New Curovernum: explorer
Durhan: explorer
New Segusio: cannon
Ningpo: cathedral (with 2 rifles, 2 pop)
Karakorum: cannon, later switched to settler
Leptis Magna: harbor
Tabriz: explorer
(posted to here)
New Lapurdum: settler
Cirta: explorer, later changed to settler (to be rushed w/cannon next turn)
Ulanbaater: 2 pop toward uni
Yokohama: cathedral (with 1 cannon)
Tonawanda: harbor (with cannon) (it has an aqueduct that should be used)
Gergovia: explorer
Augustodorum: marketplace
Skiers heaven: explorer
Tolosa: explorer
Dalandzadad: explorer
Hakodate: 2 pop toward uni
Ise: explorer
By the Sea: Settler
Nemausus: explorer
Curovernum: settler
Segusio: cannon
Paoting: settler
Tseterleg: explorer
Monguntiacum: cannon
Mandalgovi: harbor
New Entremont: explorer
Fukushima: explorer
Carthago Novo: cannon
New Arausio: explorer, changed to settler to be rushed w/ cannon next turn
New Burdigala: cannon
New Tolosa: settler
New Nemousus: cannon
New Isca: explorer
New Noviomagnus: 2 pop toward uni
Entremont 2: cannon
Lugdunem 2: explorer
Agedincum 2: settler
Rolling hills: settler
Lapurdum 3: temple
Lapurdum 2: settler
New Lugdunum: cathedral
New Augustodurum: cannon
New Tolosa 2: cathedral
X Marks the Spot: cathedral
The other place: cathedral
Somewhere else: cathedral
New Glevum 2: cathedral
Mohacs 3: 2 pop toward lib
Burdigala 3: temple
Cataractonium 3: temple
Curovernum 3: temple
Isca 3: temple
New Richborough: marketplace (with cannon, explorer, and 4 pop)
Noviomagnus 3: temple (with explorer and rifle)
Lezoux 3: temple (with explorer and 1 pop)
Go through all towns to MM for food and taxes.
Press Enter
Various military movements.
All the above completed builds complete, towns set to wealth.
1265 AD: Turn 3
Culture: 37937 (1781 cpt); cities: 305
Found the following cities: Flowing Water, Not My Job, Sandy Beach, Dragons Lair, Snow Angel, Partial, Purple Moo-moo, Cold Comfort, With Love, Ensasewka Mirror, All Mine, Deforestation, Rocky Lake, Part of the Problem
Rifles drafted: Glanum 2, New Cataractonium 2, Tokyo, Deva 2, Nara, Tolosa 2, Willowbrook, Shanghai, Brest
Rushed builds:
Camulodunum: marketplace
Brest: cathedral
Utica: harbor
Satsuma: settler (with cannon and 1 pop)
Grand river: 2 pop toward uni
Lugdunum: cannon
Almarihk: cathedral (with explorer and 3 pop)
Cirta: settler (with cannon)
Nagasaki: cannon
Burdigala: cannon
Cherbourg: temple (w/ 1 cannon, 1 pop)
Isca: cannon
Cadiz: library
Chendu: settler
Richborough 2: explorer
Durocortorum 2: explorer
New Cataractonium: explorer
New Gergovia: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
New Arousio: settler (with cannon)
New Eboracum: harbor
Leifs Hideaway: settler
Augustodurum 2: settler (with 1 rifle)
Pristine Peaks: settler
Southern Exposure: harbor
Rivers Bend: settler (with 1 rifle)
RC 2: to pop toward uni
Segusio 2: cathedral
Rutupiae 2: 2 pop toward uni
Glevum 2: cannon
Lezoux 2: harbor
Arousio 2: cathedral
New RC 2: library
New Curovernum 2: library
New Noviomagnus 2: library
New Arousio 2: library
Lugdunum 3: harbor (with 1 rifle)
Richborough 3: library
Monguntiacum: temple
Axima 3: temple (with cannon and chop)
New Entremont 3: temple (with explorer and rifle)
Mountain Hideaway: temple (with exp, rifle, and chop)
Jungle Paradise: temple (with exp and rifle)
Cataractonium 2: settler (with 2 exp and rifle)
Entrmont 3: library (with 2 rifles and 2 pop)
Lindum 2: library (with warrior, 4 exp, 2 pop)
Tatong: settler (with 2 exp and 1 pop)
Glevum 3: temple (with 2 exp, 1 cannon)
Sell WM around for all 3g Carthage, all 11g Viking, 11 of 14g American, 14g from Elizabeth, 13g and WM from Hammi, and 30g from Joan
Move xtra explorer to Xian, space ironclad, take a deep breath and
Press Enter
Miscellaneous troop movement (France continues to move out of our territory good)
All the above builds complete, towns set to wealth
1270 AD: Turn 4
Culture: 39768 (1831 cpt, 50cptpt); 319 towns
draft rifles (16) in Glanum 2, Kyoto, New Cataractonium 2, Tokyo, Deva 2, Nara, Curovernum 2, Avingon, Tolosa 2, Willowbrook, New Lugdunum, Quingdao, Beijing, Shanghai, Cataractonium, Ratae Coritanorum
Towns built (10): Innocent Spies, Approaching the Thames, Lets Get Along, Brazen Land Grab, Blue Ice, Not So Sandy Beach, Shepherds View, Quiet Pines, Lonely Point, Tierra del Fuego, Die Dye
(no longer recording 2 pop toward uni, as its clear whats happening)
rushed builds:
New Cataractonium: cathedral
Alans Cabin: marketplace
Salamanca: marketplace
New Mohacs 3: temple (with explorer and 1 pop)
Lund: cathedral (with 1 rifle, 2 pop)
Lyon: library
Guangzhou: cathedral (with 1 rifle, 3 pop)
Shimonoseki: cannon
New Noviomagnus: marketplace
Kagoshima: cannon
Theveste: cannon
Mauch Chunk: settler
New Lapurdum 2: library
Dijon: library
New Entremont 3: harbor
Lapurdum: cathedral (1 rifle, 3 pop)
Noviomagnus: cathedral
Xian: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Qianqin: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Capiendum C: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Augustodurum 2: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Somewhere Else: harbor
New Burdigala: cathedral
New Lindum: library (1 rifle, 3 pop)
New Glanum 2: cathedral
New Segusio 2: cannon
X marks the spot: cannon
Verulamium 3: library
Deva 3: temple (with rifle)
New Agedincum: cannon
Glanum: settler
Verulamium 2: library
Toyama: library (2 rifle, 2 pop)
Leeds: library
New Mohacs: settler
Burdigala 2: library (1 rifle, 3 pop)
Deva: harbor
Glanum 3: library (2 rifle, 2 pop)
New Glanum: harbor
Middle of Nowhere: library (2 rifle, 2 pop)
Go through cities again for food and taxes, check civassist, pause unused explorers (theyll be useful next turn)
Press Enter
Viking want to see me. We trade territory maps. I offer wines, but they arent interested.
The Iroquois want to trade world maps. I agree.
Miscellaneous troop movements.
Above builds complete, towns set to wealth
1275 AD: Turn 5
Culture: 41657 (1889 cpt, 58cptpt)
Lots of unhappiness: draft and then use rifle and 4 pop to build marketplaces in Tokyo, Avignon, Willowbrook, New Gergovia 2. Switch university builds to marketplaces (rush where necessary) in Ulaanbaatar, Mountain Meadow, Hakodate. Use 2 rifles to complete marketplace in Mohacs.
Draft also in: Richborough, RC, Agedincum, Catarctonium, Shanghai, Beijing, Qingdao, Tolosa 2, Curovernum 2, Nara, Deva 2, New Verulamium 2, Glanum 2, Camulodunum 2, Orleans, Tours
Add two pop to unis in: Rutupiae 2, RC 2, Eboracum 2, Grand River
Cities founded: Death of a Forest,
Rushed builds (besides markets listed above):
Nagoya: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Oil Springs: settler
Nagasaki: explorer
Yokohama: explorer
Gergovia: cannon
Akwesasne: settler (1 cannon, 1 pop)
Skiers Heaven: explorer
Darhan: explorer
Dalandzadgad: explorer
Mandelgovi: explorer
New Curovernum: cannon
New Isca: cannon
Dearest: cannon
Mohacs 2: settler
New Rheims: harbor (with 1 cannon, 1 pop)
Segusio 2: cannon
Durocorturum 3: temple (with cannon and chop)
Good work, Willow.
Setting all builds to wealth and pressing enter from now on would mean a 1450AD or 1455AD win (depending on doubling)... so we still have a lot of work to do 
He's been sitting there since before my turns.WillowBrook said:(BTW - check out Bobby Moore on the hill next to London - do the AI usually do this?
Better for us to see him unused than to have an English Cav Army come over the hill with lust in their eyes! 
I noticed there are a great many cities with Temple starts that are in the mid to late twenty turns before completion. I was wondering if you are using "mobile shields" to move those to completion since, when you disband, there is no need for a one turn build as when you pop-rush?
This was the point I was trying to make earlier about Universities versus the other three builds. I think it is more efficient for us to use those cities to pop-rush explorers and cannons (longbows or whatever is worth 40 shields) in order to disband them and get the Temples, Libraries and Cathedrals built before we spend the time and resources on Universities. With a Cannon and an Explorer, a new city could have a Temple the turn after it is founded. This would pump the culture per turn number up much more quickly, imho.
You mean with a cannon and rifle, not cannon and explorer to finish temple builds in 1 turn
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Anything that gets us more cpt sooner is good.
@Gyathaar - any suggestions for the Gator1 game. We're hitting the wall economicaly over there. I think it's time for a government change.
@Gyathaar - any suggestions for the Gator1 game. We're hitting the wall economicaly over there. I think it's time for a government change.
yeah, prolly a good idea to switch government in that game
WillowBrook
Lurker
@ Lief - remember we only get 1/4 the shield value when we disband. So native pop that could produce a university and 4 cpt only gives us 50 mobile shields, which gives us 3.33 cpt if used for temples, and less than 2 cpt if for libraries or cathedrals.
As for the temples, I'm putting all new towns on temple (we've added about 50 in the last 5 turns). Then one of several things can happen, depending on how much food and how many mobile shields are available. If they have 4 or more fpt, at 5 turns, an explorer + pop rush will finish it. Or at 10 turns, a pop-rush will finish it and the town will probably be big enough to rush a library only a few turns later. If they don't have as much food, an explorer and rifle will finish it at 5 turns; or a rifle or 1 pop at 10 turns. Since most cannons (but see below) are being used to rush settlers at this point, putting a new town on wealth and waiting for mobile shields doesn't seem the best strategy yet.
General discussion questions:
1. We have over 20 cannons sitting in Old France. Should I use some/none/any/all of these to rush culture? In other words, how many should we hang on to "just in case"?
2. Should we be building harbors any more in new coast towns that only have 1-food tiles available? Any rough calculations would be useful.
3. Any guesses as to what towns are mostly likely to flip to us? I can't imagine we won't get a flip at some point this game, and I wonder what town it will be. My guess is Nora (Carthage) has the highest risk, but I'd most like to see Portland and/or Cambridge flip.
As for the temples, I'm putting all new towns on temple (we've added about 50 in the last 5 turns). Then one of several things can happen, depending on how much food and how many mobile shields are available. If they have 4 or more fpt, at 5 turns, an explorer + pop rush will finish it. Or at 10 turns, a pop-rush will finish it and the town will probably be big enough to rush a library only a few turns later. If they don't have as much food, an explorer and rifle will finish it at 5 turns; or a rifle or 1 pop at 10 turns. Since most cannons (but see below) are being used to rush settlers at this point, putting a new town on wealth and waiting for mobile shields doesn't seem the best strategy yet.
General discussion questions:
1. We have over 20 cannons sitting in Old France. Should I use some/none/any/all of these to rush culture? In other words, how many should we hang on to "just in case"?
2. Should we be building harbors any more in new coast towns that only have 1-food tiles available? Any rough calculations would be useful.
3. Any guesses as to what towns are mostly likely to flip to us? I can't imagine we won't get a flip at some point this game, and I wonder what town it will be. My guess is Nora (Carthage) has the highest risk, but I'd most like to see Portland and/or Cambridge flip.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
IIRC cannons don't add to our military strength because they have 0 defense, so I think we could safely disband them all. We only need them if we go on offensive and that doesn't look likely. If we get attacked their 1 free shot probably won't make a difference in the battle.
No ideas on the flips, other than as we continue to aggressively settle we put more pressure on the city we steal tiles from, especially after we build a temple there.
At work, so I can't advise on the harbor question.
No ideas on the flips, other than as we continue to aggressively settle we put more pressure on the city we steal tiles from, especially after we build a temple there.
At work, so I can't advise on the harbor question.
WillowBrook
Lurker
Oh, and one more question:
Should we give coal to Carthage? It would be convenient if they would RR their land so we can go through in one turn it rather than shipping units to the Gades peninsula. They can't afford to buy and we have extra. We have a ROP and I think we'll want to renew it when it come up, since we have a pile of ship-chaining ships in their waters.
Should we give coal to Carthage? It would be convenient if they would RR their land so we can go through in one turn it rather than shipping units to the Gades peninsula. They can't afford to buy and we have extra. We have a ROP and I think we'll want to renew it when it come up, since we have a pile of ship-chaining ships in their waters.
We could rail through Carthage under rop if we have spare workers. If we leave it to them it'll take longer. But no problem with giving it to them if you think it'll help and we have spare.
I agree on the cannons. They would only be any use at all in my view if we were able to upgrade them, and we can't.
Harbours will allow us to increase pop growth from 20 turns to 10 turns in marginal coastal towns? We have to finish in 20 turns. I can't really see that they are a good use of shields as long as we have culture improvements we can build. We need culture now, not in 10-20 turns time.
I agree on the cannons. They would only be any use at all in my view if we were able to upgrade them, and we can't.
Harbours will allow us to increase pop growth from 20 turns to 10 turns in marginal coastal towns? We have to finish in 20 turns. I can't really see that they are a good use of shields as long as we have culture improvements we can build. We need culture now, not in 10-20 turns time.
@ WillowBrook: I notice you've uploaded the 1275 AD save to the server. I thought you were asking for inputs before continuing, but reading the recent posts I'm not certain whether you're taking is a half time break or handing over?
[EDIT]Sorry, just re-read the post where you confirmed you are carrying on over the weekend. Having too much fun, eh
[EDIT]Sorry, just re-read the post where you confirmed you are carrying on over the weekend. Having too much fun, eh
Sorry,WillowBrook said:
got my citizens confused with my disbanded units, with my whatever??? However, I'll try again as this cultural stuff is frying whatever brain cells I have left.
What you say is true!
I guess what I am trying to say is that culture now is more important than culture in 5 turns, or more. The resources to build the University in 5 or 10 turns can be used to build Temples or Libraries now. In the end, it won't matter if we get the 4 culture per turn for the last 5 turns. But it is important to get the 2 or 3 culture per turn for the last 15 turns. It is a trade-off and we have to determine where the break-even point is and build what we can to get the most out it. I'm trying to figure out how to get the culture per turn up as quickly as possible, as soon as possible, using all of our available assets rather than getting the most culture per turn eventually. I hope I'm making some kind of sense......
I agree. CPT/turn? The second order differential was always somewhere near the edge of my calculus comfort zoneleif said:
It looks to me as though, whatever else we achieve in this game, and barring disasters, we'll cross the line on the highest CPT run rate of all the teams. A lot of teams are running at 2K cpt towards the top of the range, but we are running close to that already, and at a higher rate than any were at 40K. We have the sharpest 'knee' on the graph, now we just have to keep doing what we're doing.
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