SGOTM6 - Xteam

[AlanH]

The main concern is to avoid the creation of worker factories which are used to turn food in one part of your empire directly into shields for use elsewhere. As long as the workers have served a useful purpose as such first then as you say they can be joined back to cities. As I've never used this technique (never even been a communist) I have no feel for what constitutes exploitation in this context. Create six workers/rail one tile/join them/pop rush buildings, all in the same turn, sounds exploitative to me, but I guess I'll have to ask m-b what is considered a decent interval from birth to pop rush for a worker.

 

[Gyathaar]

Submitted save, and am not too happy with my progress

Only positive part is it seems like I picked the best spot to settle in, and we have the 2nd highest 3000BC score of all teams so far.

First the Dotmap:

The dots are in RCP 3 and 5, and only the 3 dots with pink rings around are not on rivers

 

[Gyathaar]

4000BC, turn 0:
I change game preferences to my liking
move worker NW onto mountains, see silks
move settler west

F10 (or rather CRpMapStat since its easier to see what civ advances and starting techs they have there) shows that we have 11 enemies

Japan,babylon,France,Mongols,NeoCarthage,China,England,Iroquis,India,Vikings and America
Totally 5 expansionist civs, so on a pangea map we should have contact with all civs pretty soon.
japan is the only civ that start with the wheel.
Babylon is the only scientific civ, and thus has monopoly on BW.. all other techs are well known.
Sounds like babylon is the AI civ that is most likely to see the industrial ages..

3950BC, turn 1:
Found Entremont.
Settling unveils another river 2 tiles to the SW.. fits perfectly with ring 3 cities

Set entremont to build warrior, and work the forest game..

hmm.. with 100% science the only tech that is below 40 turns is pottery at 27 turns. Hopefully we can get pottery though trade or popping hut faster than that, so I start min run on Mysticism.
sci to 20%
worker west

make sure govenor is set to Emphasize production, since i have never played vanilla on this PC before.. it wasnt

3900BC, turn 2:
worker SW to game
ouch.. worker spots barbarian warrior 2 tiles west already... it will reach Entremont before warrior complete..

3850BC, turn 3:
worker flees NW or will get killed by barb IBT. Atleast by going NW he will get ontop of a hill and can scount some more land (and perhaps lure the barb away untill first warrior complete)

3800BC, turn 4:
barb ontop of game forest
set entremont to work river forst so it can finish warrior in 1 turn.
worker moves NW again ontop of next hill, and there is a river with a grassland wheat 2NW,2N of entremont.. another 6 turn factory in ring 3

IBT:
the barb enters entremont and steal all our 17 gold
warrior complete, set to build archer to better deal with barbs

3750BC, turn 5:
warrior goes southeast to explore, archer will go west and deal with barbs
warrior move shows the deer we though was there.
Entremont is set to work game forest again
worker moves back south

3700BC, turn 6:
warrior southeast, shows river by the cow
worker back to game tile again

3650BC, turn 7:
warrior southeast.. there appears to be coast blocking all passage towards cow
worker finally starts to chop game forest

3600BC, turn 8:
warrior south, see more coast

3550BC, turn 9:
warrior west

3500BC, turn 10:
warrior moves west onto hill.. sees loks of grass and some tundra

3450BC, turn 11:
warrior west

IBT:
entremont: archer -> warrior (will complete before chop finish)

3400BC, turn 12:
archer heads west toward where barb came from
warrior west
raise lux to 20%

3350BC, turn 13:
warrior west
archer west, see goodie hut

3300BC, turn 14:
warrior west
archer west, sees goat in mountains

IBT:
entremont: warrior -> barracks

3250BC, turn 15:
archer pops goodie hut, get barbs.. ouch.. plus its nextto a barb camp.. atleast it is on mountain
exploring warrior goes west, new warrior in entremont moves out to protectthe worker incasethe archer dies

IBT:
the archer kills 3 attacking barbs, loose one hp but is promoted to elite
a chinese archer moves into view west of the barb camp

3200BC, turn 16:
china is up pottery and masonry, and wont part with any of them
archer attacks barb camp
the 25 gold from barb camp allows us to buy pottery from china, but I have to halt the min research for now

42 gold and 2gpt to china for pottery
switch the barracks build to granary
move the 2nd warrior back into entremont as MP

exploring warrior goes west and sees spices

IBT:
forest chop finish, and we get a palace expansion.. I level the ground infront of our cave

3150BC, turn 17:
When killing the barb camp, the archer saw another goodiehut, so it heads towards that, and see 2 more chinese warriors.. seems like china has to be close to the west
exploring warrior heads west
worker starts to irrigate
raise sci to 20% again and research at -1gpt (8 in the coffer)

3100BC, turn 18:
archer pops goodiehut.. it was deserted
exploring warrior move west

3050BC, turn 19:
archer move NE
warrior keep moving west
meet mongols that is up BW, masonry and mysticism

3000BC, turn 20:
entremont grows to size 3, set it to work the silk forest so make a little bit of cash
sci to 10%, lux to 10%
archer NE, warrior NW

 

[Tomoyo]

Ouch, worker turns.

I'm really surprised that we got such perfect RCP rings. I think we can let Entremont grow more and not use the silk forest on turn 22, and have the granary complete before the 4-5 growth. wouldn't growth be the most important thing? (I'm not sure, can someone get a grpah thing and compare it?)

 

[Gyathaar]

Only problem is if we work another tile we go -1gpt unless we turn off the min research.. and have just 5gold left

Worker will finish the irrigation next turn (or in the IBT), so growth will pick up.. then the road on game will help a lot

 

[Tomoyo]

Oh, I missed the gpt deal.

We will switch in two turns, then, on the fourth turn, the road will finish, That means that we will only lose two gold by doing this, but the thing I'm not sure of is the granary/growth timing if we let it grow another size.

 

[Gyathaar]

but the thing I'm not sure of is the granary/growth timing if we let it grow another size.

yes, I havent even tried to work it out myself
The early barbarian attack totally messed up all my worker move and growth timings.
And had I expected we would meet mongols so soon after the chineese, i would have held off on the pottery deal and delayed the barracks prebuild instead

 

[AlanH]

It looks good to me. You can't have everything, 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I'll try to hand off SGOTM5 tonight and pick this one up tomorrow asap. If someone can work through the MM details for the granary/growth thing that would be great, otherwise I'll try to muddle through it myself.

 

[Gyathaar]

We prolly want to work in a forest chop for the silk forest to complete the first settler btw just so you keep it in mind

 

[DJMGator13]

I think I did this right. It looks like if we continue to work the same tiles and add the river BG after growth to 4 that the granary and growth to size 5 will happen on same turn, which means an empty granary.

Here's a look at my numbers and I have attached the worksheet if someone has more time to play with it.

Excel worksheet

 

[leif erikson]

Well, we're off to the usual XTeam start. Barbs chasing our workers around and stealing all our gold. And then Goody Huts with Barbs and/or deserted. Gyathaar, welcome to the XTeam.

But you overcame the obstacles and we're off and running!!

Just got home and want to look at the save.

Good luck Alan, with both games.

 

[Gyathaar]

We can delay growth one turn and make the granary complete first by moving the citizen off the deer onto a river forest at turn 27 (meaning making 0 ftp that turn)

 

[Tomoyo]

Can't we move the citizen from the deer to the forest on 22 and 23?

 

[Gyathaar]

Hmm.. I would rather move citizen off silk forest and onto a river BG on turn 22 so we grow to size 4 at turn 23 instead of turn 24

 

[Gyathaar]

Entremont has 5 BG and irrigated deer available to work.. this means that after we get a few settlers out and get one or two of the other settler factories running, entremont can at size 6-7 run a 3 turn factory with 2 warriors plus worker or 1 spear/archer plus worker for a bit (first round would be a barracks-worker).
After we get iron we can disconnect it for a bit and produce a lot of warriors for upgrade this way. (or not connect the iron to the main set of cities, and move the warriors to a special iron-connected city for upgrade)

 

[WillowBrook]

Great work, Gyathaar, for getting us started, and Gator, for the spreadsheet!

But I'm confused - how are we growing from pop 3 to 4 on T23-24 with only 9+3 food and no granary yet? ? Don't we need 20 food to grow until we have that granary?

 

[DJMGator13]

Good catch, see I knew something wasn't right; that's why I posted the worksheet as well. I'm at work so I can't change the worksheet. That means less shields so granary will complete a few turns after I show. I can change it tonight when I get home.

 

[Gyathaar]

Great work, Gyathaar, for getting us started, and Gator, for the spreadsheet!

But I'm confused - how are we growing from pop 3 to 4 on T23-24 with only 9+3 food and no granary yet? ? Don't we need 20 food to grow until we have that granary?

Doh.. I totally missed that growth ting
Not sure on the great work, thou there was nothing I could have done about the barbarian attack... barbarians are definately more clever in vanilla than in C3C btw.. in conquests the barb would not have come a straight line for the worker and capital from that direction even with the 'barb-fix'

 

[WillowBrook]

Here's a possible plan. I make no guarantees of accuracy, and even if it is accurate, it may not be the best plan, and barbs could of course mess things up. For fpt and spt, I've indicated what the city screen will say it will get when you press enter, and the actual number in parenthesis if it differs (due to, e.g., worker completion or city growth)

 

[AlanH]

Thanks for all the inputs. Having finally completed my set in SGOTM5 - you must have wondered if it would ever happen - I've got it, and expect to play and post the next ten turns tonight. On WillowBrook's timetable I should be able to deliver a full granary, so that's the objective.