SGOTM6 - Xteam

[WillowBrook]

Nice progress, Gyathaar!

One more thing to think about, if you aren't already, is maximizing our income even now (such as by putting cities that won't use a few accumulated shields on wealth instead), since supporting 3000cpt will be diffucult even with 350 towns - we should maintain a surplus as long as possible.

On a grouchy note - y'all notice that Salamanca nicely built the pyramids for team tao? And that they got Sun Tzu's out of the deal as well?

 

[Gyathaar]

yeah, I read that in the spoiler
Makes our game all the better if we can still beat them thou
Our game would have been so easy if iroqouis has built pyramids.. we could just swallow the closest neighbours instead of going after france

 

[AlanH]

It depends on if I decide to rush libraries before settlers.... but I think I may go for the libraries first just so we can start catching up faster.

I was assuming 6 settlers per turn. My spreadsheet model indicates that a slower city build rate - 3 per turn until 1250 AD - will delay our end date a few turns. But I really don't know how valid the model is.

 

[Gyathaar]

Hmm.. I discovered the ultimate method for managing building maintainance (and unit maintainance even if that is no problem here)....

What is it? : Anarchy

As a religious civ in vanilla, you can draft/disband and poprush everything you want to build in comunism, then revolt at end of turn..
In vanilla you still gain the civilization-wide culture gain when in anarchy (you dont in c3c), you just dont get culture in the cities.
At beginning of next turn you can switch to communism (or whatever government you want), rush things, then revolt again..

Since the interturns are spent in anarchy you pay no maintainance...

Only problem is anarchy has the same limitations for food as despotism, so it isnt benefiscial to do this unless you are almost out of cash...

This feels like an exploit thou (I didnt do this to exploit, I just noticed it when switching from despotism to communism)

Added 10 more cities in 1020AD btw.

 

[WillowBrook]

Sounds like we're making progress!

So what might we call this method of avoiding paying for maintenance? Infinite anarchy? It does sound like an exploit, but we could ask mad-bax for a ruling.

Incidentally, here's another use for our workers: add them to cities that are done pop-rushing and can support more citizens as taxpayers (if we don't want to or can't wait for the cities to actually grow the taxpayers).

Another exploit? Just thought of this - would it be against the spirit of the game to have a negative food balance in the cities for the last few turns before hitting 100k in order to hire more tax collectors as long as the cities didn't actually lose population? If there's nothing wrong with that, would it be wrong if the cities did start losing population?

 

[DJMGator13]

I think starving your own citizens is OK. One thing to do before actually starving the city is to set it to zero growth once we have rushed all the improvements and make them taxmen. We should be able to generate a large number of taxmen this way.

 

[leif erikson]

We prolly won't be starving much for a while if we're trying to build another 150 cities, they'll all go into settlers, won't they?

In 95% corrupt cities, is there a minimum amount of gold a city will produce per turn? Taxmen provide 2 iirc, so it sounds as though it'll be better to keep as many as taxmen as possible to keep that gold coming in.

 

[Gyathaar]

FYI: In communism every city is producing 1 shield and 1 gold.. and taxmen in vanilla/ptw only give 1 gold each.

Still not in any trouble when it comes to gold thou.. still on positive cash flow due to selling luxes and resources to AIs, and have 4893 gold in the bank.

Paris is down to 0% fliprisk with 3 military units (mapstat says 1..3 )

I doubt I will reach 1k cpt at end of my turn thou.. 800-900 is still realistic thou.

 

[leif erikson]

I doubt I will reach 1k cpt at end of my turn thou.. 800-900 is still realistic thou.

Well, I guess we can't have everything??

Keep up the good work, can't wait to read about it all!!

 

[WillowBrook]

All that taxman and starving cities talk was thinking of the very end of the game, when we could be spending over 1500 gpt on maintenance and when we're no longer needing our people to build stuff.

Sounds like we're making progress! I'm looking forward to seeing the results!

I'm glad this round is taking a while, BTW - there's no way I could play again until after next weekend (parents coming out to visit for Easter).

 

[leif erikson]

@Gator - I heard your guys pulled it out at the end after losing a 20 point lead. Better sharpen 'em up, won't survuve that in the next round!@!

 

[Tomoyo]

Speaking of March Madness, my only local team lost...

 

[DJMGator13]

Atleast they won. Kansas, the #3 seed in our bracket, got beat by a 14 seed. If we get by Villanova, we most likely face NC (round 3) and then UConn (round 4), before even getting to the Final Four. That is a nasty bracket. Any team that comes out of that bracket should be favored to win it all. You have Florida, NC, UConn and Kansas (which lost) all together.

 

[Gyathaar]

Sheez.. this is taking really long to play.. only gotten to beginning of 1060AD (6th turn). Will try to get 10 turns finished tomorrow, unless AlanH feel like taking over now

Have to take a break from playing now

 

[AlanH]

I'll pick it up if you like. I only played five in Gator01, and that only has 100 cities. They took well over an hour each..

 

[Gyathaar]

Ok, will upload the save at start of 1060AD then.

It turned out I would focus more on getting more cities then culture afterall (at 207 cities and 6 unmoved settlers at the point where I upload game)

 

[Gyathaar]

1000AD, turn 0:

10256 culture, 298cpt

We cant wait much longer before starting on culture rush... however looking at current builds, I decide to wit 2 turns before revolting.. reason a lot of high shield towns will finish builds in 1 or 2 turns.

Go through all cities...

sell WM to india for 31gold
sell incense to babylon for 24gpt
wm to carthage for their wm and 32gold
wm to england for their wm and 3gold
wm to vikings for wm and 19gold
horses to america for 26gpt, and wm for 5 gold

sell silks to babylon for 24gpt since we dont need 8 luxes atm, and will soon have 2 more silks (just need peace with france or a harbor)

IBT:
france and cathage ally vs babylon
loose a cav and kill a french cav

carthage: library -> settler
paris: library -> temple
new Rutupiae: settler -> library
Kazan: settler -> library
lugdunum: settler -> library
allegheny: settler -> library
Rouen: temple -> harbor
lepis Minor: temple -> library
yokohama: temple -> library
St. Regis: temple -> settler
Eboracum: temple -> library
Ratae Coritanorum: temple -> cathedral
By the Sea: temple -> library
Nemausus: cav -> library
Glanum: settler -> library
Isca: harbor -> library
New Glevum: temple -> library
Deva: settler -> library
Lezoux: settler -> library
Fukushima: temple -> library
Carthago Novo: library -> cath
Capiendum Carthaginis: settler -> library
Dearest: Temple -> library
Central Pennsylvania: Temple -> library
Southern Exposure: temple -> library

1010AD, turn 1:

10587 culture, 331 cpt

bombard Orleans.. kill one citizen, destroy barracks and take 1 hp off a defender.

5/5 cav kills 3/3 rifle, drops to 4/5
5/5 cav kills 3/3 rifle, drops to 1/5
5/5 cav kills 3/3 rifle, drops to 4/5
5/5 cav dies to 3/4 rifle.. rifle promotes to 3/5
4/5 cav dies to 3/4 rifle.. rifle promotes to 3/5
4/5 cav kills 3/5 rifle
4/5 cav retreats from 3/5 rifle
4/4 cav kills 3/5 rifle, drops to 3/4
4/4 cav dies to 4/4 cav, cav drops to 3/4
3/4 cav kills 3/4 cav, and capture orleans with newtons university and collossus, plus 2 workers

5/5 cav dies to 3/3 rifle in Lyons, rifle drops to 1/3
5/5 cav dies to 2/2 rifle in Lyons.. rifle drops to 1/2
5/5 cav kills 2/2 rifle
5/5 cav kills 1/3 rifle
4/5 cav kills 1/2 rifle.. capture Lyons with 2 workers and a cannon

5/5 cav kills 4/4 cav in the open

poprush worker (2 citizens) and then temple in paris.. starvation will bring it down to size 1 next turn


found Segusio 2
found Rutupiae 2
found Monguntiacum 2
found Glevum 2
found Axima 2
found Deva 2
found Lezoux 2
found Novoiomagus 2
found Arausio 2

I go to bed

hardly any rushing this round, mainly due to preparing for switch to Communism next turn.

IBT:
loose a conscript rifle and kill a french cav

Iroquois and Babylon ally vs france

Paris: temple -> cath
entremont: temple -> library
Nanjing: settler -> settler
Burdigala: settler -> library
Lapurdum: Library -> settler
Tolosa: Temple -> library
New Camulodunum: Settler -> library
New Richborough: Temple -> library
New Verulamium: aqueduct -> temple
Resort Gyathaar: Settler -> library
New Segusio: Library -> settler
New Axima: Settler -> library
Augustodurum 2: Temple -> library


1020AD, turn 2:

10934 culture, 347cpt

ironclad sinks french frigate

found Durocortorum 2
found New Entremont 2
found New Mohacs 2
found New Lugdunum 2
found New Camulodunum 2
found New Richborough 2
found New Verulamium 2
found New Gergovia 2
found New Augustodurum 2

I look around and see that france no longer has horses now.

kill a cav in the open

5/5 cav retreats from 4/4 rifle in Chartres
5/5 cav kills 3/3 rifle
5/5 cav dies to 3/3 rifle
5/5 cav dies to 3/4 rifle
4/4 cav kills 3/5 rifle
4/4 cav kills 2/3 rifle.. and kill last defender.. I decide to raze the town since we have enough high flip risk french towns, and are low on workers in french area. Get 5 slaves.

4/4 cav dies to 3/3 rifle in hastings
4/4 cav flawlessly kills 3/3 rifle and promotes
4/4 cav dies to 3/3 rifle
4/4 cav retreats from 3/3 rifle
4/4 cav kills 3/3 rifle
4/4 cav dies to 2/3 rifle
4/4 cav kills 2/4 rifle.. and capture hastings (no cultural expansion)

I go through cities and poprush some builds

Time to revolt...

All cities are still going ok for happiness.

IBT:
loose 2 cavs and 3 rifles in counterattacks

Beijing: Cathedral -> court (for now)
Avignon: Harbor -> temple
Sabratha: Temple -> library
Verulamium: Library -> temple
Mauch Chunk: Temple -> library
Agedincum: Library -> settler
Cataractonium: Library -> settler
River's Bend: Temple -> Library

Select communism

1030AD, turn 3:

11299 Culture, 365cpt

Due to the 74gpt income from other civs, we are currently making 66gpt

To give you an idea about how bad corruption is... not a single town makes more than 1 uncorrupted gold or 1 uncorrupted shield!

bombard Rheims.
I check for wonders.. Rheims has Lighthouse.. but that is expired already, so I plan to raze the town.

5/5 cav kills 3/4 rifle
4/4 cav kills 2/3 rifle
4/4 cav kills 2/4 rifle.. redline, promote and raze Rheims. Get 2 workers and a cannon.

poprush worker-> temple in Avignon bringing it down to size 1
Do the same rush in Lyons, bringing it to size 5
Orleans still has a resister

Found New Agedinum 2

rush some builds.

IBT:
India and iroquois sign peace
trade embargo vs us between france and carthage ends

loose a cav and kill 3 french rifles

india and babylon sign peace

Karakorum: Library -> settler
Lyons: Temple -> Library
Shanghai: Library -> cath
Mohacs: Temple -> Cath
Grand River: Library -> settler
Nara: Library -> settler
Camulodunum: Cath -> library
Nagoya: Temple -> Library
Avignon: Temple -> Library
Richborough: Temple -> Library
New Lugdunum: Cath -> settler
New Augustodurum: Settler -> Library
New Eboracum: Settler -> Library
New Ratae Coritanorum: Library -> settler
New Glanum: Library -> settler
New Isca: Library -> settler

1040AD, turn 4:

11704 culture, 405 cpt

Paris only need 3 military units for 0% fliprik now

kill 5 stray french units (3 rifles, 1 cav and 1 longbow)

Bombard the french capital, but only one cannon hits, so I will wait till next turn since it is on a hill.. I manage to destroy the barracks and kill one population thou.

France still dont want to talk.

Found New Eboracum 2
found Burdigala 2

sell communism to Carthage for democracy, WM and 40gold

Go though cities and poprush and MM.

IBT:
no french counerattack this round, thou they moved up several units

Orleans: Library -> Temple
Tokyo: Library -> settler
Lepis Magna: Library -> settler
Edo: Settler -> Library
Satsuma: Settler -> Library
Eboracum 2: Temple -> library
Verulamium: Temple -> settler
Tonawanda: Library -> settler
St. Regis: Settler -> Library
Tatong: Settler -> Cath
Matsuyama: settler -> library
Segusio: Library -> settler
New Entremont: Settler -> library
New Mohacs: Settler -> library
New Richborough: Library -> Cath
Lazy Summer: Temple -> Library
Isca 2: Temple -> Library
Rutupiae 2: Temple -> library

1050AD, turn 5:

12137 culture, 433cpt

Bombard Amiens.
5/5 cav retreats
5/5 cav dies
5/5 cav wins
5/5 cav dies
5/5 cav dies
4/4 cav wins
4/4 cav retreats
4/4 cav wins
4/4 cav dies
5/5 cav wins, and get a leader.. plus capture Amiens

French Capital jumped to Besancon.
As far as I can see the french no longer has salt.

I ponder what to use the leader for.. but eventually decide to build a university in Paris since we dont do much more warfare.

Found New Cataractonium 2
Found New Lapurdum 2
Found New Ratae Coritanorum 2

IBT:
vikings wants a RoP.. since we dont need it I say no
england also wants RoP? Guess the AIs are not too worried about our RoP rape.. I say no again

Kill french longbow and rifle

Karakorum: settler -> settler
Paris: university -> settler
Kyoto: Library -> settler
Orleans: Temple -> settler
Utica: Settler -> library
Lyons: Library -> settler
Niagara Falls: Temple -> library
Guanzhou: Settler -> library
Mohacs: Cath -> settler
Lungdunum: Library -> settler
Ratae Coritanorum: settler -> cath
Tolosa: Library -> settler
Choybalsan: Library -> settler
Erdenet: Library -> settler
Ningpo: settler -> library
Glevum: Library -> cath
Gades: harbor -> Temple
New Noviomagus: Library -> settler
Alan's Cabin: Settler -> library

India start US.

1060AD, turn 6:

12609 culture, 472cpt

sink a french frigate

our army is now weak to babylon, and average to america..
strong to everyone else.. including france..

France still dont want to talk.

found New Tolosa 2
found New Lindum 2
found New Nemausus 2
found New Curovernum 2

I end it here for now.. most units has still not been moved, and I have not done any rushing yet (perhaps i did 1 or 2 cities)
I have sacrificed some short term drafing capabilities in some cities to get out more settlers or more culture.

 

[leif erikson]

Looks real nice Gyathaar!! Hope you are feeling better now!

Do you think we can continue with the French campaign for much longer?

 

[WillowBrook]

Good work, Gyathaar!

Now, can Alan keep us on track to intercept Team tao's culture graph? They just uploaded another 10 turns, and it doesn't appear that their cpt has increased much.

 

[WillowBrook]

I just looked at the save, and here's my two cents -

- We should take Poitiers, but I don't like the idea of depleating our military forces much further, since we're weak to Bablylon again. So I vote to stop there - but I won't mutiny if the team decides to take more.

- Don't forget to build harbors in coastal towns that don't get much food. Helping build harbors is an excellent use for the drafted rifles that should come from every size 7 town.