Sharia Law in Britian: Girls forced to wear veils in Islamic schools

[say1988]

These are young girls who are being forced by their parents, school, and society into wearing the veils, and I would imagine that in many cases its against their will.

Should we ban forcing your kids to eat vegtables? Or brushing their teeth? Or how about ban churches because parents force them to go there against their will?
Parents make the decisions for the kids. That s a fact.

 

[Trajan12]

Yes, and they could also eat pork and date non-Muslim men. Chances of that happening though?

I find it interesting that the goalposts quickly move from Sharia in the legal system to Sharia being socially enforced. You don't think there are unfair social controls enforced by parents and friends on Christian girls? Do you think they're universally allowed to wear what they want to wear and date the guys they want to date without outside pressure? What rock are you living under and what realtor sold it to you?

Parent enforcing orthodoxy over their children. Yawn.

For the record, I think that the idea behind the veil is inherently sexist, as it amounts to blaming women for male sexuality. But it's not just the veil that does this. If you want to argue that sexism is wrong, argue that sexism is wrong. Don't cop out by going after a tiny percentage of society who make an easy target and leaving the vast majority alone.

 

[SG-17]

Parents forcing their religion down their kids throats makes most resent, even hate religion.

It certainly did for me.

 

[BuckyRea]

My first thought was how the girls could tart up the burka. I'm eagerly awaiting the results.

My mind is making images in my head of wet burka contests and girls wearing lacy bras on the outside of their burkas, all-Madonna-like, circa 1984. Soon they'll be competing with hair-up-in-a-bun librarians for the suppression-fetish crowd--which I adamantly deny being a member of.

On a more serious note, I think the impulse to shut down these schools as being detrimental to an open, liberal, democratic society is a bad idea. It's true that these places do tend to create hatred for western society. They draw their power from the roll-immersion of Muslim conservatives--deviants who get their sense of worth and identity from standing outside the social mainstream. In that way, they're kind of like goths, punks, polygamists, Earth First ecoterrorists, furries, and Star Wars fans.

The hallmark of liberal society is the toleration (and thus the propagation) of those within society that want to withdraw from its frightening diversity. I respect their right to be different, but I can't help feeling they'd all be happier if they instead turned to fan-fiction writing about an obsolete video game series as their antisocial deviance of choice.

 

[Smellincoffee]

It has no place in a civilized country, but neither do Catholic and Anglican dress codes.

 

[Formaldehyde]

How about, if you oppose the lifestyle of the West, you move somewhere you agree with?

After all, what were they expecting? Religious tolerance and no bigotry?

BTW this isn't really sharia since it is just a requirement of these private schools instead of government mandated. As such, it isn't really a "law" at all. It is more of a dress code than anything else.

 

[Oerdin]

It's an Islamic school. Should reading the Bible be required at Catholic schools? Should public schools teach the Big Bang?

Except the Koran simply instructs women to dress modestly while it was barbaric local custom to treat women as property of men and force them to hide from the rest of society or be beaten and brutalized. This sort of systematic forced oppression & subjegation of women should NOT be allowed in any civilized country and anyone trying to force the issue should be brought up on charges of child abuse and mental cruelty then tossed in jail for the rest of their lives.

 

[Flying Pig]

Except the Koran simply instructs women to dress modestly while it was barbaric local custom to treat women as property of men and force them to hide from the rest of society or be beaten and brutalized. This sort of systematic forced oppression & subjegation of women should NOT be allowed in any civilized country and anyone trying to force the issue should be brought up on charges of child abuse and mental cruelty then tossed in jail for the rest of their lives.

I agree totally. Next on the list is abolishing this foul gender-binding custom of banning men from wearing dresses, lest they be considered effeminate! What sort of civlilized society puts restrictions on what its members can wear?

 

[say1988]

At least the Scottish can wear skirts

 

[Oerdin]

I agree totally. Next on the list is abolishing this foul gender-binding custom of banning men from wearing dresses, lest they be considered effeminate! What sort of civlilized society puts restrictions on what its members can wear?

YEAH! If neo-Nazis want to get dressed up in Nazi uniforms, march in the streets, and shout "kill all Jews" then the German government should let them! Wait... What's that? You say because of a brutal history of violence and murder such symbols shouldn't be allowed? Good point. I can think of almost no symbol with a longer history of brutality, violence, and subjugation then the burka but I guess it's ok if you want women to know their place and get beaten for not doing what their told. How dare she want to walk outside on her own.

 

[GinandTonic]

At least the Scottish can wear skirts

It's not so much that they are allowed, more that they get all pissy when people try to stop them, and no-one wants to see a pissy Scot.

 

[say1988]

Especially when he is wearing a skirt and isn't afraid to use it...

 

[fugazi]

I find it interesting that the goalposts quickly move from Sharia in the legal system to Sharia being socially enforced. You don't think there are unfair social controls enforced by parents and friends on Christian girls? Do you think they're universally allowed to wear what they want to wear and date the guys they want to date without outside pressure? What rock are you living under and what realtor sold it to you?

Parent enforcing orthodoxy over their children. Yawn.

For the record, I think that the idea behind the veil is inherently sexist, as it amounts to blaming women for male sexuality. But it's not just the veil that does this. If you want to argue that sexism is wrong, argue that sexism is wrong. Don't cop out by going after a tiny percentage of society who make an easy target and leaving the vast majority alone.

The topic is about a muslim school that enforces its girls to be dressed in a certain manner. Are you saying I should go off-topic?

.. I know, lame but also true. I'm not religious as I'm an agnost. I despise the indoctrination of kids by their religious parents, family and surroundings. They can't fight it at that age.

 

[Xanikk999]

Its an islamic school and furthermore a private school, if you dont want to follow their rules you have other private schools to choose from or public school is an option.

I dont live in Great Britain but i would assume if the parents dont like it they are free to choose another school for their kid. If they arent hardliner muslims why would they want to send their kid to a muslim school anyway?

The topic is about a muslim school that enforces its girls to be dressed in a certain manner. Are you saying I should go off-topic?

.. I know, lame but also true. I'm not religious as I'm an agnost. I despise the indoctrination of kids by their religious parents, family and surroundings. They can't fight it at that age.

I tend to agree with you but it would be a radical thing to ban private schools so i cant really say they shouldnt be allowed to have their own rules since its not forced apon the parents. If it was a public school i could understand.

I can sympathise with the kids however since religion does tend to influence people early in life and they dont have any outside views on the matter if they are going to be indoctrinated in a religious school.

It all comes down to who should have the say in raising their kid, the kid, or the parent? Government should step in only when the welfare of the child is endangered.

 

[Lord Baal]

How about your country stops letting in so many people that oppose your lifestyle? Emigration is a right, immigration is a privilege.

This. God, yes this.

What about the freedom on movement?

It doesn't exist, and even if it did it would be a stupid idea.

My first thought was how the girls could tart up the burka. I'm eagerly awaiting the results.

Come to Western Sydney. The popular method is simply to wear them so skin-tight that you can see the freckles on their arses, but I've seen a few others.

 

[dido]

Why should any Western society tolerate the oppression of women?

These aren't adult women like in France who are making a conscious choice to choose the veil (even if they are pressured by society they are adults)

These are young girls who are being forced by their parents, school, and society into wearing the veils, and I would imagine that in many cases its against their will.

Since when can kids do whatever they want?
I was forced to go to school against my will. I was forced to wear that stupid uniform (with ties!). I was forced to go to masses by the school. Am I gonna whine about it?

 

[Mise]

1) It's a private, independent, fee-paying school. That means that the school gets to decide what dress-code it enforces, and parents are free to send their children elsewhere (such as a free state-school).

2) We have Catholic, Anglican and Jewish schools, too. Most of them are oversubscribed, and state-subsidised. All of them force their students to study their religion.

3) When I was in (a state-run) school, I was forced to read from the bible, sing hymns, and listen to sermons pretty much every morning. Of course, I could have "opted out", and sat in silence in the library for 30 minutes (which, incidentally, was also the punishment for forgetting homework or being late for school). Things have largely changed for the better (i.e. more secular state schools), but it's clear that parents who want their children to have a religious education will have to plump for independent, fee-paying schools, such as the one in the OP. I know you young, angry, upper-middle class white kids like nice, neat black and white solutions, but in the real world, sometimes we have to compromise; allowing independent, faith-based schools is a pretty good compromise between allowing parents a choice of schools for their children and ensuring that no-one is discriminated against in state-school classrooms.

4) How the hell is this "Sharia Law"??? In what way is this a "law"? This is an independent, fee-paying school enforcing a dress code. It's not a freaking law, and any idiot who decides it's a "law" deserves to be called an idiot. So, does anyone think this is in any way Sharia "Law"???

 

[classical_hero]

If they're going to do that, they might as well concentrate on the more offensive stuff fist. Namely, banning Creationist speech and literature.

Well what harm is it doing to people, believing in Creationism?

 

[GinandTonic]

2) We have Catholic, Anglican and Jewish schools, too. Most of them are oversubscribed, and state-subsidised. All of them force their students to study their religion.

Not to mention the Hindu school opposit the Swaminarayan Mandir which tends to be near the top 10 independents.

4) How the hell is this "Sharia Law"??? In what way is this a "law"? This is an independent, fee-paying school enforcing a dress code. It's not a freaking law, and any idiot who decides it's a "law" deserves to be called an idiot. So, does anyone think this is in any way Sharia "Law"???

True.

 

[Lillefix]

Well what harm is it doing to people, believing in Creationism?

It's like saying that the holocaust didn't happen, or that Rome is in Antarctica. It's simply untrue. And one just shouldn't teach blatant lies to children, as if they were facts.