[RD] Should anabolic steroids be illegal for the general population?

[BvBPL]

Anabolic steroids are generally illegal for use by the general population for the purposes of improving physique and performance. Should they be illegal? Why or why not?

Some caveats to the topic at hand:

• Steroids also have therapeutic uses, for example steroids are highly effective at treating acute asthma. That isn’t the general topic I’m bringing up here; I’m talking about people taking steroids to put on muscle, improve physical performance, and lose fat.
• Further, use of steroids and other drugs by athletes is not really what I’m thinking about. There are real concerns about how liberal use of drugs by athletes in competition and training can skew what we think of as honest competition. Athlete drug use is a real topic, and I think it’s informative to the topic I’m raising, but here I am largely thinking more about use by the non-competitive general population.
• Also, I’m thinking here mainly about adult use. Use by juveniles and adolescents can mess with development.

Of course you're welcome to address thoughts in those topics, but I'm generally thinking about the topic of steroid use by otherwise healthy adults who are taking steroids to build muscle, improve performance, and lose fat.

Some facts for consideration:

• Steroids can help build muscle and remove fat, two good things;
• Steroids can be used in moderation with almost no negative short-term side effects and very little if any long-term side effects;
• However, overuse of steroids can have serious and debilitating side effects;
• Populations most likely to use steroids for muscle gain, such as young men, are often cohorts more likely to want instant results and more willing to engage in risky behavior, meaning the population most likely to want steroids are also most likely to overuse them; and
• Various hormonal therapies are now much more common in medicine, meaning a person could get a doctor to write a script for steroids. This generally needs to be for a therapeutic purpose, rather than just for muscle building in an otherwise healthy individual. As you might imagine, this doesn't stop people from talking their doctors into hormonal therapies that might not be medically necessary.

 

[Snerk]

Has anybody anywhere ever tried legalising steroids? Or is there any other relevant statistics to draw from?

I don't know enough about it to have much of an opinion, but of course I see the appeal. Who doesn't like a nice shortcut? Would be interesting to try, no doubt. Not too bothered by gains and increased strength even though decisive progress under my current (somewhat lackluster) regime would be fun, but I'd be more interested in effects on general energy levels and happiness/depression and stuff.

But unless my testosterone levels fall to unhealthy low levels I doubt I'll ever be very motivated to try it. Partly due to possible side effects, partly due to the fact that I'd have to keep taking it forever to maintain the effect.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Interesting consideration:

What risk of harm do steroids provide potential consumers that smoking, alcohol abuse, or even eating lots of junk food doesn't similarly provide? I've yet to see a clear justification to banning them for the general public that wouldn't also hold for things that are legal.

Their use in athletics is more troublesome to define. It'd be odd to ban athletes from something you'd generally allow, but you also have major risk of overuse given the incentives. It's also true that pro sports will currently punish athletes for "substance abuse" that has no performance enhancing elements whatsoever, and are arguably detrimental to performance. Bizarre stuff if you start applying logic to it.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, athletics associations will have their own internal codes. They currently don't allow many substances that are legal. The major risk of steroids is that they'll create a zero-sum game of escalation that makes everything worse off without making anything better. Akin to the NHL (hypothetically) saying that helmets are now 'optional'. Every individual player has the incentive to remove their helmets, so they all do.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well, athletics associations will have their own internal codes. They currently don't allow many substances that are legal. The major risk of steroids is that they'll create a zero-sum game of escalation that makes everything worse off without making anything better. Akin to the NHL (hypothetically) saying that helmets are now 'optional'. Every individual player has the incentive to remove their helmets, so they all do.

Yes, there are reasons for sports to ban things in the name of competition, player safety, or viewer enjoyment. It's not similarly clear why the NFL should care if a player smokes pot in the off season or police similar activities, however.

None of these apply to the general public taking steroids of course. Am I missing something and they're actually much more dangerous than the currently-legal examples I gave?

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, without some type of training, yeah. They're pretty toxic and people are bad at pharmacology.
And I cannot imagine creating some type of standardized dosing protocols. One advantage of these older drugs is that we are used to them. Everyone knows how to count beers, and we all know the various disasters that can happen with over-imbibing. But pharmacology is a pretty specific science when we're talking hormones. You don't get that active feedback of risks/rewards that the other vices have.

I don't think they should be illegal, though I do think someone would be nuts to do it with only street levels of knowledge. And I'd not want to enter the legal market of being a supplier to muggle customers.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Men already live 5 less years due to testosterone.

Injecting even more manliness shortens lifespan another 10 probably.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't think they should be illegal, though I do think someone would be nuts to do it with only street levels of knowledge. And I'd not want to enter the legal market of being a supplier to muggle customers.

Well yeah. There's people who take thyroid hormones and others with various degrees of street knowledge. Some do some pretty decent research, others become news stories. It could be perfectly legal and I wouldn't take this type of steroid (ignoring medical uses in context of the thread).

Injecting even more manliness shortens lifespan another 10 probably.

This is why I would grade it as similar to smoking. Only a little less bad, as there's generally no second-hand stuff going on in public spaces.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's only really akin to smoking if people take reasonable doses for their weight. Unlike cigarettes or even alcohol, it's very easy to completely mismanage dosing, because you don't really have the same feedback mechanisms.

 

[The_J]

In my gym I have recently been chatting a feewtimes with a former powerlifter.
He said he never did, and that it's too dangerous. Also expensive. He said a daily dose is like 40€ IIRC, and then you need another drug cocktail to prevent the side effects. One of them being that your testicles will stop producing testosterone, and will therefore shrink.
That made me never want to try any ^^.

 

[Zelig]

I vote no, because I do competitive-level amateur sports that aren't drug-tested, don't want to do steroids myself, and don't want my opponents more jacked up than they already are.

 

[warpus]

I would defer any judgement on this to actual experts in those fields (medical & judicial/legal)

Personally I feel that we are not being transparent enough in professional sports regarding the use of stuff like this. From my understanding in some sports it's very common, because it's easy to get away with it (but correct me if I'm wrong)

Laws should mirror reality and the ease of implementation, not someone's imagination and/or ideology

 

[innonimatu]

Sometimes you do have to protect people from themselves. Or at least from the peddlers of potentially harmful products.

It's the same as with other drugs: how to restrict access and prevent a black market with even worse versions? Just making it illegal usually causes its own set of problems. But not allowing profitable businesses to be built around it would be a good idea.

 

[Arwon]

I'm pretty comfortable leaving most therapeutic substances controlled by medical doctors and pharmacists tbh. They're not currently illegal, they're controlled. I'm not allowed to manufacture, sell or supply them, but then, I'm also not allowed to manufacture, sell or supply penicillin.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think doctors can prescribe them here or they used to when I was a kid. Asthma treatment.

Not sure about now though.

 

[El_Machinae]

So, I think they should be legal for general use by the public. But I think that doing so might fail to produce the necessary infrastructure for it to happen. Ideally, I want quality manufacturing and trained professionals administering.

And then we're into a chicken and egg. I don't know if manufacturers would stay in the market if it was not regulated, because they wouldn't want the liability for misuse. And I don't want to create legislation that absolves them from misuse, because I think that will quickly spiral out of control.

With regulations in place, even very liberal ones, you have everything you need to get the doctor and the company and the customer together to get what people want done

 

[emzie]

So I've experienced life with natural levels of testosterone for a male and for a female, and I gotta say, testosterone is a hellova drug. Having changed little of my routine or diet, the loss of it dropped me 40 pounds. Not all of that was muscle, but a lot of it was muscle.

 

[bernie14]

I think doctors can prescribe them here or they used to when I was a kid. Asthma treatment.

Not sure about now though.

Steroids used for asthma are not the same

 

[Snerk]

So I've experienced life with natural levels of testosterone for a male and for a female, and I gotta say, testosterone is a hellova drug. Having changed little of my routine or diet, the loss of it dropped me 40 pounds. Not all of that was muscle, but a lot of it was muscle.

That's really interesting. Did you experience any changes other than to your physique? Things like mood or confidence?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Steroids used for asthma are not the same

Yeah. OP detailed anabolic steroids specifically, there are others and to put it mildly other steroids don't necessarily help you gain more muscle mass or risk roid rage.