Should Citizens Have to Pass a Basic Citizenship Test?

[illram]

The USCIS states the purpose of the Immigration Naturalization Test is to "encourage citizenship applicants to learn and identify with the basic values we all share as Americans." Plus they should read and write basic English since that is the dominant language in the US. Fair enough.

Should citizens have to take this test and pass it? (Both civics and basic English). If they fail should their citizenship be revoked? Isn't it just as important for a current citizen to be able to "identify the basic values we all share as Americans" and prove that they are basically literate? If not why not? Or should they just not have to "prove it?"

FYI here is a sampling of some of the more difficult questions. Below that is a link to the USCIS website which has a complete list of the questions. I bet a statistically significant population of Americans would fail this test.

Questions ---> evil liberal media website

USCIS website

Let's not turn this into a "I got 20 out of 20 right!!11" thread. I am assuming we, the educated civ-playing internet elite, would all pass.

 

[Leonel]

I dunno. If I said yes, I'd end up failing it and being kicked out.

 

[Shadylookin]

I got 19/20 right because I don't know what the INS form to get citizenship is

It's generally considered bad form to have people without any citizenship. Plus where are we going to deport people to if they fail? Detroit?

 

[Formaldehyde]

They already tried this in the South to disenfranchise the black voters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test

 

[amadeus]

Failing a citizenship test wouldn't be equivalent to giving the government license to boot you out... that said, it seems to be pretty unnecessary to try and reverse the concept of birthright citizenship, with possible exceptions for anchor-baby attempts... if you're born in the U.S. to someone not a legal resident, then you shouldn't be a legal resident either.

 

[Gelion]

this test? nevermind.

 

[illram]

Failing a citizenship test wouldn't be equivalent to giving the government license to boot you out... that said, it seems to be pretty unnecessary to try and reverse the concept of birthright citizenship, with possible exceptions for anchor-baby attempts... if you're born in the U.S. to someone not a legal resident, then you shouldn't be a legal resident either.

Why should anyone have the right to be a citizen by birth? Maybe you could administer the test to both "anchor babies" (of age) and the non-anchor babies and revoke the citizenship of the ones who fail in order to make room for the anchor babies that actually prove they deserve to be here by knowing US history?

 

[Irish Caesar]

Of course not.

I don't think we need an A28 right now, and that would be a particularly bad one, since it would be subject to so much abuse. Really, it took this country a hundred years just to get A14 enforced consistently, and that's still "too much freedom" for some people's tastes...

 

[dido]

Failing a citizenship test wouldn't be equivalent to giving the government license to boot you out... that said, it seems to be pretty unnecessary to try and reverse the concept of birthright citizenship, with possible exceptions for anchor-baby attempts... if you're born in the U.S. to someone not a legal resident, then you shouldn't be a legal resident either.

birthright...sounds like some kind of feudalism/caste system hierarchy to me

 

[Mowque]

No, I don't support it. Although my father said the test was easy when he took it to become a citizen.

 

[dido]

I got 19/20 right because I don't know what the INS form to get citizenship is

It's generally considered bad form to have people without any citizenship. Plus where are we going to deport people to if they fail? Detroit?

failing=retain residency but no citizenship=cant vote=unconstitutional

 

[MobBoss]

The USCIS states the purpose of the Immigration Naturalization Test is to "encourage citizenship applicants to learn and identify with the basic values we all share as Americans." Plus they should read and write basic English since that is the dominant language in the US. Fair enough.

Should citizens have to take this test and pass it? (Both civics and basic English). If they fail should their citizenship be revoked? Isn't it just as important for a current citizen to be able to "identify the basic values we all share as Americans" and prove that they are basically literate? If not why not? Or should they just not have to "prove it?"

FYI here is a sampling of some of the more difficult questions. Below that is a link to the USCIS website which has a complete list of the questions. I bet a statistically significant population of Americans would fail this test.

Questions ---> evil liberal media website

USCIS website

Let's not turn this into a "I got 20 out of 20 right!!11" thread. I am assuming we, the educated civ-playing internet elite, would all pass.

No. Especially not if the penalty for failure were that you lose your citizenship.

However, I might be inclined to say yes if the penalty were less harsh....like saying making such a test a requirement to vote in federal elections, or link it as a requirement for a national/federal ID required for voting in national elections.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

So, what happens if they fail this test?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

For the sake of argument, I'll say yes. Also the test should be more difficult, and nations should be run in a fashion more like Snow Crash or The Diamond Age, where some are ideological, some racial, some test-based, some nepotistic, and most of them are a lot smaller, and there's something like a competitive free market among nations.

 

[illram]

No. Especially not if the penalty for failure were that you lose your citizenship.

However, I might be inclined to say yes if the penalty were less harsh....like saying making such a test a requirement to vote in federal elections, or link it as a requirement for a national/federal ID required for voting in national elections.

What if immigrants were still awarded citizenship for failing, but just not the right to vote until they displayed elementary civic knowledge? Let's assume this extended to current citizens as well, i.e. everyone has to pass this test.

Let's also assume for the moment this would be constitutional.

 

[Naskra]

Those are all trivia questions. Nothing to do with "basic values we all share".

 

[illram]

Those are all trivia questions. Nothing to do with "basic values we all share".

Well I guess according to Immigration Services, one of the values we all as Americans are supposed to share is an appreciation of American civics, evidenced through knowledge of basic history and civic facts.

Hence my confusion, as I am not so sure many born and raised Americans actually share this "value?" Or at least display the proper evidence for it that we expect of immigrants?

 

[dido]

What if immigrants were still awarded citizenship for failing, but just not the right to vote until they displayed elementary civic knowledge? Let's assume this extended to current citizens as well, i.e. everyone has to pass this test.

Let's also assume for the moment this would be constitutional.

that's still unethical

and memorizing those things doesnt really make you more intelligent

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, the concept of birthright citizenship (either jus solis or jus sanguinis) is unjust. Social Contracts that merely assume the consent of the people based on them not rising up to revolt rather than informed consent should not be considered binding.


Note that lacking citizenship would in no way translate to being forced out of the country. There is no reason we cannot allow non citizens to live here among the country's citizens, whether they were born here or not. I would place no limits on immigration apart from checking for criminal backgrounds and contagious diseases. The idea that anyone should need a green card to work here is also wrong. Non-citizens should not get services like social security, but it is essential that the level of education needed to pass the citizenship test be provided for free to any non citizen, regardless of age or country of origin. (Although I'd probably require compensation for those who get the schooling and then leave without taking the test.) You could of course try taking it over again no matter how often you fail.


I would lean towards also making only citizens eligible for conscription, income taxes, charges of treason, and capital punishment.





I would probably require a much tougher test than this, but without silly questions pertaining to INS form numbers. It should include testing for knowledge of ethical and economic theories, as well as at least basic mathematical computations. Multiple choice shouldn't be used, at least for most of it. I prefer short answer and fill in the blank, not essays.


I misread stripes as stars, and so got the first question wrong even though it was supposed to be the easiest of all. I got the other 19 right, although the INS form one was a random guess.

I did not like the question asking why the pilgrims came to America, as the right answer (to convert the heaven natives, prevent their children from being corrupted by Dutch culture, and to create an essentially theocratic state providing less religious freedom to those who disagreed with them than was available in England) was not present. Also, the Separatists weren't called Pilgrims until much later. The question about who selects supreme court justices isn't great either, as the Senate has the important role of confirming such appointments.

 

[illram]

that's still unethical

and memorizing those things doesnt really make you more intelligent

What is unethical? Passing a test to vote or passing a test to become a citizen? An immigrant can't vote if they fail, even if they've lived here since they were 1 day old.

Let's say you have two people, immigrant and citizen. Both have been living in the US for 18 years. Both fail. Immigrant can't vote but citizen can. Is that "ethical"?

@everyone, the MSNBC test is only a sample of 20 questions that the author of the article though were "most difficult." The real test is also not multiple choice. It is an oral examination where the tester administers 10 oral questions, randomly selected from 100 that the applicant is given prior to the test to study. If you get more than 4 wrong you fail. The tester judges whether the answer is correct if it is close enough to one of the "model answers." There is no exact word for word correct answer and it is up to the examiner whether the applicant "got it right." (Within reason). So that would be the format.