I am enlisting in the IDF by the end of the year, give or take a few months. I have also decided to engage in a boycott of settlement products. But as an Israeli soldier the likelihood is high that I'll eventually have to do service in a settlement or Palestinian town. Should I refuse? I'll be put in military jail and will probably alienate my relatives if they find out. And simply being put on watch duty or something isn't going to harm the Palestinians much more, but the fact is that I'm being complicit in it.
Should I refuse to serve in the settlements?
- Thread starter Mouthwash
- Start date
Quackers
The Frog
If you don't want to serve in the settlements, don't sign up in the first place. As you said there is a very high chance you will have to serve a settlement.
I don't think you're going to enjoy a military prison in Israel...
I don't think you're going to enjoy a military prison in Israel...
I'll ask my uncle about it.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
I think service in the IDF is mandatory for a certain duration.
Yup. Of course, I could simply live in the states until I'm too old to be drafted, but I'm not a fan of that idea.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Wait, you're an American kid who's moving to Israel just to serve in the IDF?
Wow, that's pretty ballsy. What's driving your desire to do this thing?
Wow, that's pretty ballsy. What's driving your desire to do this thing?
I identify as Israeli and I think it could help me. And if I don't do it, I can never go to Israel without being drafted or straight up arrested.
Cheetah
Deity
If you've made a decision to actively avoid supporting the settlements economically, then I suppose you would also have to refuse serving in the settlements while in the IDF. It could be argued that doing otherwise would be hypocritical to your own decision.
Then again, it seems to me like you want to serve in the IDF - perhaps to support the existence of the state of Israel. Whatever the reason, you could build an argument that you can wish to serve even if you do not support the settlements. Though even if you end up never getting near any settlement during your service, you're existence still meant that there was another man or woman whom the IDF could have serve in the settlements instead of being where you ended up.
In the end, it comes down to what kind of compromise you're willing to make with your own ideals.
I will say this however: If you enrol in the IDF you have a very high chance of serving at least some of the time in the settlements. And ending up in military jail will only have consequences for yourself, and only negligible benefits to your cause. I'd say that is a really lousy option. So there's really only two alternatives here: Either you stay in the U.S. and avoid serving based on you convictions regarding the settlements, or you enrol and serve in the settlements if you are ordered to.
Edit:
Then again, it seems to me like you want to serve in the IDF - perhaps to support the existence of the state of Israel. Whatever the reason, you could build an argument that you can wish to serve even if you do not support the settlements. Though even if you end up never getting near any settlement during your service, you're existence still meant that there was another man or woman whom the IDF could have serve in the settlements instead of being where you ended up.
In the end, it comes down to what kind of compromise you're willing to make with your own ideals.
I will say this however: If you enrol in the IDF you have a very high chance of serving at least some of the time in the settlements. And ending up in military jail will only have consequences for yourself, and only negligible benefits to your cause. I'd say that is a really lousy option. So there's really only two alternatives here: Either you stay in the U.S. and avoid serving based on you convictions regarding the settlements, or you enrol and serve in the settlements if you are ordered to.
Edit:
Wait, are the rules such that anyone who identifies as an Israeli, but haven't served in the IDF because they weren't in Israel at the time, are to be arrested and put in prison if they end up there later??
Quackers
The Frog
No offense Joe, but doesn't this make you feel like a bit of a bad jew?
Our hero Mouthwash here is going back to defend the motherland. He is willing to spill his blood for his people. He has got some balls.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 9,492
Do you think Israel is military stationed in West Bank to protect the Settlements or to protect Israel itself? If you think the latter, I'd just serve if I were you. If you think the former, then don't. Do you think East Jerusalem being settlements or part of Israel proper?
I wouldn't think of it doing it myself though, though that's because I'm way too lapsed from my Israeli origins to ever identify myself with Israel. On paper, I'm a dual Dutch and Israeli citizen, but for all practical purposes, I'm just Dutch (and by extent EU-lander).
I wouldn't think of it doing it myself though, though that's because I'm way too lapsed from my Israeli origins to ever identify myself with Israel. On paper, I'm a dual Dutch and Israeli citizen, but for all practical purposes, I'm just Dutch (and by extent EU-lander).
This seems contradictory. Do you mean "wouldn't" find fault?
I actually have no problem with the idea of a military occupation, it's the settlements I dislike. And that question is way too ambiguous. One could argue that both are true, although the "protecting Israel" argument is basically that withdrawing could cause Israel to become threatened. So it's not that I'd be actively defending Israel. And yes, the East Jerusalem settlements encroach on Palestinian territory.
You're Israeli? I've literally never heard an Israeli-born person speak English that well.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I had the same problem with Poland actually, military service was mandatory for all able men and I think it still might be, although it's on the cusp of changing for the better. I hold a Polish citizenship, so technically I had to go through this too.. The thing is that I was always even more technically exempt since I was attending university.
Doesn't matter, uniformed men would show up at my grandparents place every once in a while and demand that I show up for training (or bootcamp or whatever) lest I be thrown in jail and charged with some anti-state BS crap. My grandparents got a bunch of official letters stating all that as well - I have one in storage - to frame and put up at some point
I was afraid of coming to Poland, but then eventually I become too old for them to care about me serving in the military and I was able to go to the country with no issues back in 2004. Or maybe it wasn't the age that did it, maybe the paperwork just got messed up? Or somebody figured out that I was actually exempt? Who knows.
Are you sure they'd really give a crap about an American serving in the IDF? I mean, I don't really know anything about this, but if you don't even hold Israeli citizenship (right?), then.. you can probably skip this thing and not worry about it. Then again I'm sure you've done the research so you know better than me, I guess
edit: I see that you're a dual citizen. Still might be exempt like I was maybe? Do you attend university? I realize Polish and Israeli rules will be different, but surely people studying out of country are exempt from this - it only makes sense.
Actually, one of my main motivations in moving to Israel is getting into their universities.
Yes sorry I mean wouldn't. Typing mistake and I'm looking at several things at once.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 9,492
Well, if you think the occupation serves Israel's security, then perhaps it doesn't really matter whether you might enter settlements or not, since the IDF's presence in these parts ensures Israel's security (in your opinion). Besides, If I am not mistaken, the IDF frequently clashes with settlers as well.
Please do note that the moral circumstances regarding the settlements are rather vague and that the reasons why the settlements are illegal before Palestinian law are often not more justified than the settlements themselves, as the death penalty exists for Palestinians who voluntarily relinquish land to foreign nationals including Israelis. While I strongly disagree with the ideological justifications of the settlers, I feel that supporting any boycott of the settlements means a tacit support for Palestine's policy of sentencing Palestinian people to death over a fundamentally victimless crime. Do note I'm not trying to argue into changing your opinion, merely to offer an additional perspective.
While I am indeed Israeli-born, I have lived in the Netherlands practically since birth. I started frequenting fora at age 10, so that certainly helped. I do note that most Israeli-born people on the internet I encounter are actually quite young. Its probably a phase in life they are going through.
I think most Israelis who are "mature" so to speak to the internet are reluctant to discuss Israel-related stuff, especially since Israel is not really popular in these parts. So we actually may miss a lot of Israeli people who are hiding their Israeli descent.
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