Sid variant

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Korea sounds good. If we do full settling I'd try 70% water, more land for us to exploit. Tech path would definitely depend on what opponents we have got, so I'm with Mr Larkin here.

 

[Bucephalus]

I need some clarification on the rules of this variant.

We can't buy tech for straight up gold - can we pay gpt?

We cannot build the GL - can we capture it?

We cannot steal? - you made comparison with Goz12; there is no way that we would have won that without stealing - what makes you think this can be done without stealing?

Can we extort techs with the pointy stick?

Regarding Korea/H'wacha: In Goz12, the H'wacha had a very short shelf life, and proved ineffective against units in cities, or higher defence units.

 

[ignas]

Byzantines are quite good on arch maps - seafaring will ensure we are not behind in techs in the ancient age (fast contacts) and a few dromons to control our coastline will prevent us from being attacked early on while we are expanding, also well timed Golden Age is good. But Korea is also good, any sci civ is ok with me

Of course libs and unis in cities ASAP and sensible trading should do the job.

We will be playing on standard world size?

 

[Own]

@Buce- This is my understanding of the variant, but I may be wrong.

When I said straight up gold, I meant gold and gpt. So none of that.

We cannot capture GL I assume.

Not being able to steal is probably the biggest challenge. We might be able to survive early on and in the middle ages, but when the IA comes we'll be falling behind.

Yes, we can extort techs. We can also throw in gold/gpt if the gold we throw in is equal to no more than 1/3 of the cost of the tech we're extorting.

I've read that game all the way through, and I did notice that. But here the h'wacha might have more use. When conquering an island on sid, the only way to do it is to get an army (which can be done either by letting units land on your shores and kill them with elites or dropping 30 muskets off on a hill with a settler and getting leaders on defense) then hide lots of trebs/cannons and longbows/MDI/cav under it, then you use an explorer to bait AI's out of cities, then you raze it. The h'wacha might eliminate the need for building tons of longbows.

@ignas- yes, the byzantines would be very good, precisely why we're not playing them. Overpowerful on island maps.

No, large world.

Btw, I ran mapfinder last night with river>0, cow on grass >1, and lux >0 and I got ZERO acceptable maps. I haven't used mapfinder in a while, I guess maps like these are more uncommon than I remember.

 

[ThERat]

thinking about it, is there still space for one more player

 

[Elephantium]

lurker's comment: I'll be watching this one with interest. Good luck, guys.

 

[Bucephalus]

OK, thanks, Own.

It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out - I've only beaten SID once, and that involved doing much of what is banned in this variant.

 

[I. Larkin]

@Buce- This is my understanding of the variant, but I may be wrong.

1) When I said straight up gold, I meant gold and gpt. So none of that.

2) We cannot capture GL I assume.

3) Not being able to steal is probably the biggest challenge. We might be able to survive early on and in the middle ages, but when the IA comes we'll be falling behind.

4) Yes, we can extort techs. We can also throw in gold/gpt if the gold we throw in is equal to no more than 1/3 of the cost of the tech we're extorting.

5) I've read that game all the way through, and I did notice that. But here the h'wacha might have more use. When conquering an island on sid, the only way to do it is to get an army (which can be done either by letting units land on your shores and kill them with elites or dropping 30 muskets off on a hill with a settler and getting leaders on defense) then hide lots of trebs/cannons and longbows/MDI/cav under it, then you use an explorer to bait AI's out of cities, then you raze it. The h'wacha might eliminate the need for building tons of longbows.

6) @ignas- yes, the byzantines would be very good, precisely why we're not playing them. Overpowerful on island maps.

7) No, large world.

8) Btw, I ran mapfinder last night with river>0, cow on grass >1, and lux >0 and I got ZERO acceptable maps. I haven't used mapfinder in a while, I guess maps like these are more uncommon than I remember.

1) Yes, we have to put some approximatly equivalent tech on the table than we may add gold or gpt.
2) We may capture TGL only after we research Education
3) Yes, and it make this game different.
4) We will discuss, how to calculate Tech price, but something like that.
5) War on Sid is very special thing...
8-6-7) I looked for some maps manually and have found what I want after about 20 attemts: sead number 183897, large map. I put Portugal and send scouts Settler and Woker in different directions. Map is "perfect" BUT when I put Korea it gives me different location! I realized, that Korea is not Sea Civ.
What we can do? Continue search? Or play England? England got the same starting position.

 

[I. Larkin]

thinking about it, is there still space for one more player

You are in.
I assume that we will start with this roster, order may be discussed.
1. I. Larkin
2. Bucephalus
3. Beorn-eL-Feared
4. Own
5. ignas
6. ThERat
We really need to find a good map.
Than roster will be closed.

 

[Bucephalus]

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,--
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England

England seems good to me.

 

[I. Larkin]

So, OK with "non sci civ" my variant will be much harder. However Englad has an advatage that it has pottery already and we may start beeline to Phylo.
+ extra gold as commercial + extra gold as Seafaring+ better sea scouting...
Or mapfinder can give us something?
Defenetly, Theodora better, but she is "exploit".

 

[Bucephalus]

So, OK with "non sci civ" my variant will be much harder. However Englad has an advatage that it has pottery already and we may start beeline to Phylo.
+ extra gold as commercial + extra gold as Seafaring+ better sea scouting...
Or mapfinder can give us something?
Defenetly, Theodora better, but she is "exploit".

Add to that, a better than useful U/U that remains in control of the seas right up until destroyers, and a nicely timed GA that can be triggered without war by sinking a 'pirate'.

 

[CommandoBob]

lurker's comment:
I'll be in the Lurker's Gallery, also. Interesting idea, but way beyond my current skill level.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

3rd option: have someone take the seed, open the map in the editor, force a spawning point *for Korea* at the desired location and set us up for a go.

 

[I. Larkin]

The file that I am speaking about is below.
Two Cattel and river + coast. If somebody can substitute
England to Korea at starting point with the same AIs it will be fine..
Or we may play as England...
Do we need Barbarians?

 

[ignas]

The start looks nice, I'd say play it as is with England for extra challenge.

I don't think barbarians are needed in Sid game, they will just cause us problems (make tech pace much faster as AI will pop many techs, also barbarians will threaten our towns).

As it is archipelago (slow contacts between AI's) we could also dare to think about Rep slingshot with the sacrifice of early growth (assigning scientists in towns). I've played quite a few games on sid where i got slingshot if my civ started with alphabet. slingshot would be very powerful

 

[I. Larkin]

Beorn, Own, Rat, What do you think about England? Beorn played Korea recently may be it is resonable to make a change?
@ignas On Sid Writing 50 turns from start anyway, am I right? Or you know the trick?

 

[ignas]

Yes, writing in 50 and then if situation is comfortable (like no AI's with Writing) research CoL and philo with the help of scientists. This will delay growth but it's well worth it. On the other hand it's a gambit

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

The starting position was skewed because in the editor it was forced to the coast to suit a seafaring civ's needs. Here's the start as Korea, on the original tile (not forced to the coast), same map, same seed, no barbs.

I can edit it to any civ with any traits from this point, so if we would like Byzantines with H'wacha, no problemo. I personnally would prefer to keep Korea at this point: the argument for Hwacha is good, we really want SCI and I am a huge fan for COM.

 

[I. Larkin]

Yes, writing in 50 and then if situation is comfortable (like no AI's with Writing) research CoL and philo with the help of scientists. This will delay growth but it's well worth it. On the other hand it's a gambit

Sound like a plan. We loose nothing if research Writing on minimum 50 turns. And then see. In this sense England is comfortable as it has no dilemma Pottery or Writing. Let's what other team members will say. If we play this position I will play 5 or 6. It took me 20 turns to scout our island with Portugal.