Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I think we should have settled it ASAP so as to kill rank corruption there. So imho the turns could've waited.
Sid variant
- Thread starter I. Larkin
- Start date
I. Larkin
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What? Pink Dot? or what do you mean?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Whichever the FP city is.
I. Larkin
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Index,Technology,Known to,Estimated Cost
1,Bronze Working,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,200
2,Masonry,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,288
3,Alphabet,(1) Egypt,360
4,Pottery,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,144
5,The Wheel,(1) Egypt,304
6,Warrior Code,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,216
7,Ceremonial Burial,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,144
8,Iron Working,(1) Egypt,456
9,Writing,,640
Here is Tech situation and I will trade like shown on image.
Scout Sea west. looks that continent ThERat discovered bend west. So from North there is no point to scout North.
Return Curragh to North tip and try west from there. Also try Nothern west position again.
Cities. Like original Blue, yo exchange deer with "Irrigate", and Lake Cow. Still have no good idea about Pink.
Thing depend, 1) Will Irrigate alive always? How important for us to use any Coast tile around Island.
Build up: May be it is time to build some granaries? At least at Flint?
1,Bronze Working,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,200
2,Masonry,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,288
3,Alphabet,(1) Egypt,360
4,Pottery,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,144
5,The Wheel,(1) Egypt,304
6,Warrior Code,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,216
7,Ceremonial Burial,(2) Egypt, Sumeria,144
8,Iron Working,(1) Egypt,456
9,Writing,,640
Here is Tech situation and I will trade like shown on image.
Scout Sea west. looks that continent ThERat discovered bend west. So from North there is no point to scout North.
Return Curragh to North tip and try west from there. Also try Nothern west position again.
Cities. Like original Blue, yo exchange deer with "Irrigate", and Lake Cow. Still have no good idea about Pink.
Thing depend, 1) Will Irrigate alive always? How important for us to use any Coast tile around Island.
Build up: May be it is time to build some granaries? At least at Flint?
I. Larkin
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- Feb 21, 2003
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How you estimate chanses conquer Sumeria? in forseeing future? In this case FP better on ast point. If it is just for us we may build it anywhere it does not matter. But I thought it will be Granary and Library first.
If sumeria has iron, then they're definately not our first target. They can only be our first target if they don't have longbowmen or iron when we have gunpowder. But that's unlikely, since they have contact with both Egypt and us, and we may be forced to help them advance the tech tree for our own good.
Oh, so they're on the same continent. I really don't know if landing on an iron weapons - bearing AI without an army is feasible if they're at war with another on their land mass. I would guess not. When you picture 2 sids fighting eachother, it's easy to think of their big stacks crashing into eachother and hundreds of units killed per turn some way, but in my island AWS game, I actually observed an AI to AI battle while conquering a big island, and all of the big stacks had defensive units on top, which usually weren't attacked, so there was very little killing. Just an exposed horse stack here and there getting annhilated.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Egypt is up a lot of techs, I really doubt that they have met Sumeria. They're not on the same continent if you ask me.
ThERat
Deity
2 Civs fighting is not such a good idea as they will just reduce unit support. Only if we want to take a pie of some Island, then it would be wise to do that.
We can't get across to Sumer land anyway, how do we want to fight them?
BeF, I would have settled the FP city only if we had agreed on it. But it seems there no consensus right now though I really agree with your location. next settler could be sent there.
We can't get across to Sumer land anyway, how do we want to fight them?
BeF, I would have settled the FP city only if we had agreed on it. But it seems there no consensus right now though I really agree with your location. next settler could be sent there.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
2 civs fighting on different islands, pre-map making, is very good since they just buff up on military and strap their budgets.
How we would take part:
If we build a huge lot of boats and ship a large amount of troops, on one ferry, I remember reading SirPleb saying that as many troops will survive as the amount of ships that don't sink. So the strait is 6 tiles long, we build a bit over 2x the necessary navy and move in.
Why we shouldn't:
A good invasion on a lone ranger like Sumer would require over a dozen swords, that many catapults and a couple spears/archers for the added defense upon landing. Say we put the number at 30. That's 60+ ships too. We're *never* going to build up that much.
A good invasion on 2 dogs that have been chewing each other's tails off would take much less - but then it would still take quite some. I don't think it would benefit us at all, whatsoever.
How we would take part:
If we build a huge lot of boats and ship a large amount of troops, on one ferry, I remember reading SirPleb saying that as many troops will survive as the amount of ships that don't sink. So the strait is 6 tiles long, we build a bit over 2x the necessary navy and move in.
Why we shouldn't:
A good invasion on a lone ranger like Sumer would require over a dozen swords, that many catapults and a couple spears/archers for the added defense upon landing. Say we put the number at 30. That's 60+ ships too. We're *never* going to build up that much.
A good invasion on 2 dogs that have been chewing each other's tails off would take much less - but then it would still take quite some. I don't think it would benefit us at all, whatsoever.
I tried shipping troops over dangerous waters once- don't try it.
We can't invade until navigation sadly. This makes building the glighthouse not an outrageous idea.
I'm not sure everyone here appreciates just how many units sid AIs have. 2 dozen swords, spears, archers and cats will get slaughtered the ibt after they land. The one and only way to land on a sid island without an army is on an AI with only attack 2 or less, and you need to land 30 plus muskets, found city with walls. You'll get a leader every ibt. But more problems, every AI city has a hundred defenders, so you have to bait them out, and with capture the cities with trebs and MDI's hiding under armies.
Now that I think about it, we really can't invade until navigation, which is way too late. It's probably worth it to start a GLH prebuild, which could allow us to invade Sumer or others many turns earlier than we would otherwise.
We can't invade until navigation sadly. This makes building the glighthouse not an outrageous idea.
I'm not sure everyone here appreciates just how many units sid AIs have. 2 dozen swords, spears, archers and cats will get slaughtered the ibt after they land. The one and only way to land on a sid island without an army is on an AI with only attack 2 or less, and you need to land 30 plus muskets, found city with walls. You'll get a leader every ibt. But more problems, every AI city has a hundred defenders, so you have to bait them out, and with capture the cities with trebs and MDI's hiding under armies.
Now that I think about it, we really can't invade until navigation, which is way too late. It's probably worth it to start a GLH prebuild, which could allow us to invade Sumer or others many turns earlier than we would otherwise.
ThERat
Deity
I agree with own, if we want to invade pre-astro, we need the GLH, and we need to start a prebuild fast then.
This would mean we need to get masonry in a tech trade as outlined already
This would mean we need to get masonry in a tech trade as outlined already
I. Larkin
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45*"" 1950*""*BC Settle on spot WestGreen
IBT Americans build Oracle
46*"" 1910*""*BC met Egyptians. They have all and Myscicizm. Trade Alpha+195 gold for Pottery and Masonary to Sumeria.
IBT zzz
47*"" 1870*""*BC
IBT Flint worker->Granary
48*"" 1830*""*BC nothing
IBT AtCow Curragh->Worker
49*"" 1790*""*BC nothing
IBT Irrigate Settler->Granary
50*"" 1750*""*BC Curraghs at west position and North position
IBT Nothing
51*"" 1725*""*BC
IBT Writing come, first chop to flint
52*"" 1700*""*BC Cleopatra agrees writing+15 for IW. Good.
Curraghs sail west North see the coast.
IBT North Curragh sink, second chop to flint
53*"" 1675*""*BC West sail west. Whale tale at south. Oppa!
Egyptian Insulted for trade Writing-IW?? (Now it is clear, that they in contact with French who discover Writing IBT).
IBT West Curragh sink,
54*"" 1650*""*BC Egyptians have writing and Mathematics.
IBT nothing
55*"" 1625*""*BC Met French. They have the same as Egyptians. West Curragh touch ground
IBT
56*"" 1600*""*BC Met Greeks. They IBT Sumeria and Egyptians/French in Techs.
999 test: Greeks:46 gpt, French: 58 gpt, Egypt 42 gpt, Sumeria 41 gpt, I.Larkin: 31 gpt. (This test show full income per turn as at F1 screen)For AI Phylo costs 192 b, so French can do it in 4 turns all others at 5.
IBT Flint Granary->Worker. Phylo in 11
57*"" 1575*""*BC With all odds Phylo in 9.
IBT Americans build Oracle
46*"" 1910*""*BC met Egyptians. They have all and Myscicizm. Trade Alpha+195 gold for Pottery and Masonary to Sumeria.
IBT zzz
47*"" 1870*""*BC
IBT Flint worker->Granary
48*"" 1830*""*BC nothing
IBT AtCow Curragh->Worker
49*"" 1790*""*BC nothing
IBT Irrigate Settler->Granary
50*"" 1750*""*BC Curraghs at west position and North position
IBT Nothing
51*"" 1725*""*BC
IBT Writing come, first chop to flint
52*"" 1700*""*BC Cleopatra agrees writing+15 for IW. Good.
Curraghs sail west North see the coast.
IBT North Curragh sink, second chop to flint
53*"" 1675*""*BC West sail west. Whale tale at south. Oppa!
Egyptian Insulted for trade Writing-IW?? (Now it is clear, that they in contact with French who discover Writing IBT).
IBT West Curragh sink,
54*"" 1650*""*BC Egyptians have writing and Mathematics.
IBT nothing
55*"" 1625*""*BC Met French. They have the same as Egyptians. West Curragh touch ground
IBT
56*"" 1600*""*BC Met Greeks. They IBT Sumeria and Egyptians/French in Techs.
999 test: Greeks:46 gpt, French: 58 gpt, Egypt 42 gpt, Sumeria 41 gpt, I.Larkin: 31 gpt. (This test show full income per turn as at F1 screen)For AI Phylo costs 192 b, so French can do it in 4 turns all others at 5.
IBT Flint Granary->Worker. Phylo in 11
57*"" 1575*""*BC With all odds Phylo in 9.
I. Larkin
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We may forget about Lighthouse. French discover Writing at 1675 BC and normally AI do MMaking after Wrting. We will see it soon. For French MM costs 384 b, with their income ~ 60 bpt it is 7 turns. If they decide Phylo next our "sling" fail. Also, Egyptians got Writing in 1650 BC. Dunno whats they up next. Most probably they have HBR already. However if they go to Poly, as normally they do, and French to Construction (as French used to) we have a slim Chanse. But anyhow do not trade Writing until they discover Phylo. Or we will be 4 turns to Phylo. If we "lucky", can Beron stop and discuss what to get out of sling? Or discuss now, what priorities are?
Here costs of Techs for AIs. They have 40+gpt and 60+gpt (France). So this gives a rough idea what happend next. They normally do 100% at Despotism.
1,Bronze Working,,96
2,Masonry,,128
3,Alphabet,,150
4,Pottery,,60
5,The Wheel,,128
6,Warrior Code,,96
7,Ceremonial Burial,,64
8,Iron Working,,192
9,Writing,,256
10,Mysticism,,128
11,Mathematics,,256
----------------------------------------------------------------------
12,Philosophy,,192
13,Code of Laws,,320
14,Literature*,,320
15,Map Making,,384
16,Horseback Riding,,160
17,Polytheism,,384
18,Currency,,512
19,The Republic*,,896
20,Monarchy*,,768
21,Construction,,640
Dashed line is "research frontier". but, probably they know HBR.
Here is DM. Version for MA. There is no reason for ICP in desert. Only around Lake. (Ignas Triangle). So FP in Cow City, after Granary, Library, I think.
I finally make decision about Silk City. Let it Grab maximum bpt, as here. But we need road Irrigation there first.
Here costs of Techs for AIs. They have 40+gpt and 60+gpt (France). So this gives a rough idea what happend next. They normally do 100% at Despotism.
1,Bronze Working,,96
2,Masonry,,128
3,Alphabet,,150
4,Pottery,,60
5,The Wheel,,128
6,Warrior Code,,96
7,Ceremonial Burial,,64
8,Iron Working,,192
9,Writing,,256
10,Mysticism,,128
11,Mathematics,,256
----------------------------------------------------------------------
12,Philosophy,,192
13,Code of Laws,,320
14,Literature*,,320
15,Map Making,,384
16,Horseback Riding,,160
17,Polytheism,,384
18,Currency,,512
19,The Republic*,,896
20,Monarchy*,,768
21,Construction,,640
Dashed line is "research frontier". but, probably they know HBR.
Here is DM. Version for MA. There is no reason for ICP in desert. Only around Lake. (Ignas Triangle). So FP in Cow City, after Granary, Library, I think.
I finally make decision about Silk City. Let it Grab maximum bpt, as here. But we need road Irrigation there first.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Re: pink city: you lose no silk beakers by settling it 1SW (except for 2 harbourless coast tiles) so why not grab the wheat? It'll have a hard enough time growing as it is ... still lucky we can chop out granary/aqueduct.
Agree with every other dot (but if we move pink SW we may want to move dark blue 1SW too). I'd put very low priority on orange because we'll need to cash-rush a lot of things there: most useful citizens will be fishermen, it's food poor so it can't work a lot of hills and mountains.
Agree with every other dot (but if we move pink SW we may want to move dark blue 1SW too). I'd put very low priority on orange because we'll need to cash-rush a lot of things there: most useful citizens will be fishermen, it's food poor so it can't work a lot of hills and mountains.
I. Larkin
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Granary not nessesary, just Corthouse and aqueduct. It is our Woder City and we will put Workers there from "irrigate" say.
May be an "Idea" And 1 more at north Coast. It will be lsess room, however ,for "irrigate" and 2. Red-brown "2" have to move SW too, I assume?
It become brown at new version.
Ther several "low priority dots" make them "flatten".
Better to chop forest first.
We may build it at IA when rearange all "structure."
But it looks OK except Technical "Toxi City."
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
FP, flat and all looks great to me.
I. Larkin
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Invasion Sumeria (pre-astro and without Lighthouse). Sumeria Weakest Civ there and If not Egypt France will smashed it soon. I am "affraid" that it will happend before astro. I am thinking to settel at smal Island there and wait and see, and may be settel 1 more City in Sumeria Land when Sumeria will be "near the end". We may send empty Galley first, and if it will not sink send next with Settler/spear, reload in Ocean, and unload on Island.
