Sid variant

[ThERat]

Were we the first to Theology? And don't we still have the alliance with Sumeria against France? We can't do peace yet.

I think we are first by miles as Rome and France just acquired mono a few turns ago. The rest lags behind in techs.
The alliance just expired this turn

 

[Own]

Oh, you're right. We should probably get invention from france for it. Or we could hold it and try and get education first, and maybe keep our tech lead on the upper half of the middle ages. If we could get to navigation first that would be huge.

 

[I. Larkin]

France and Rome (!!!)

Unbeliveble! Germany also. Who else? Persia? Will look at save at lunch-time. But Did we finish C/H in Geek?
What is "general team oppinion" about Copernicus? I feel better "pass" and build Uni. Effect is the same but 4 times cheaper. I can play tomorrow in airport, but do we want to discus something before?

 

[ThERat]

court in Ch almost done...there was a move during my turns and that was to finish a rax there first as I though more French galleys were coming (which they didn't). Then forgot to swap back...
I am all for unis and forget about Cops

 

[I. Larkin]

court in Ch almost done...there was a move during my turns and that was to finish a rax there first as I though more French galleys were coming (which they didn't). Then forgot to swap back...
I am all for unis and forget about Cops

OK, so in my turset it will be massive "uni pre-build"

 

[I. Larkin]

Looked at save. OK, we have some Horses. Rome still backward, it was a glich, Rat. Even Persia do not have Mono. They glad to take it for peace, sure. They can make peace for 160 gold also. Trade Invention for Mono costs 700 gold, but may be it is an option? Now critical moment, to "renegotiate peace treaty with Sumeria. If I leave situation as it is they pop up IBT, without "options". But I do not see a reason to stop France -sumerian war. We will ask 11 gpt in this treaty and, probably then they will break it (hopefully). But I had a game when England stay 46 turns at war with only one London in 20 turns against "superpower" Hitties. So, if there is no objections I continue to stay in wars "as it is". And start uni prebuild "now."
EDIT nobody reply, so I better wait. But plans become mere "solid".
1) At pre-turn re-negotiate trade with Sumeria. The fact that thej have more and more gold indicates, that they are fight with France and have less and less units. I think it is good for us. Bring them also to alliance vs Persia.
2) Do not trade techs. The longer we will have monopoly on Astronomy the better. It is "not good" to pay 700 +Mono for Invention, also it is not good to give up of monopoly to Theology.
3) Prebuild Unis.
4) Pump Workers from "irrigate" and make Cities "approximately equal. Do not improve bad tiles.

 

[ThERat]

Hmm, what a glitch....funny

Anyway, I would not trade so much cash we need for deficit research just to gain invention. I am sure we get a better premium later on to get invention and gunpowder.

 

[I. Larkin]

Hmm, what a glitch....funny

Anyway, I would not trade so much cash we need for deficit research just to gain invention. I am sure we get a better premium later on to get invention and gunpowder.

Dont know.
Will not trade, sure.
What do you think about "runing MA+Peace treaty"
But I am off today.
Edit 09 Nov.
Playing "now", played 5 turns. Finnaly Sumeria declare We may make peace, but don't know what for.

 

[I. Larkin]

Here is the save. sorry, no time to write TL.
We "may" make peace with France, but I am not sure, that we want to.
We better interrupt their way to Greece. (But I lost 2 Galleys trying to).
Task for this turnset to prepare assult forses to take HAMADAN.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Are you sure about Heraklea? No high ground to defend from and then the civ is Greece so they get cheap 3-defenders... Unless it's a build-up for something bigger (I have yet to read through the thread as it deserves and I should, but my mid-term rush is over now so I have time).

Did a bit of MM, nothing much to do really. Univ pre-builds are on.

We have a very nice and exploitable tech situation: no one has Theo, some not Mono, and we're about to grab Edu. I'll see what comes out of this, might play 5, get edu and report back here.

Got it, not playing tonight.

 

[ignas]

We are doing good in research - 372 bpt now and around 500bpt after education (prebuilded universities in core) should make astronomy in 9. Our primary goal i guess is to get Navigation ASAP (luxuries), we should get it in 17 or 18 turns.
Hamadan should have no more than 3 pikemen and prolly 1 rushed longbowman after we land, so like 12 horses or 8 longbowmen (prolly 1 spearmen to defend units if longbow attacks) should do the job. Are we planning attack before astronomy or after?After astronomy should save us some shields (no galley sinking) but we will lose time

 

[Own]

If Heraklea is on the greek mainland, then nothing we land won't get slaughtered the next ibt without us having muskets and a hill to land on, and if it's just an island, I fail to see the reward of a wealth 2 scientist city for the cost of the production and gold of the army and boats and the fact that we have to declare war and risk a dogpile.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Nevermind, it's Hamadan: super corrupt persian hole of an island city, with 2 plains and a lot of coast. We surely could break into that place.

Which brings Own's point into light: what do we have to gain?

 

[Own]

Our ultimate goal is to bring down the most powerful civ after the romans. This can be easily done, but it won't be easy on the wrist. Thinking about this is starting to make me think that Cops is a worse and worse idea, though I think we've decided that it's not happening.

We know france has powder because foreign advisor says glumly that they have musketeers. It's possible that Xman has gunpowder. It is likely that he doesnt' have muskets because FA is only afraid of their LBs, but he still might, and even if he doenst he might just lack saltpeter. So we could make peace with persia and get invention for mono plus some gold, or give them mono for peace and then get invention for our monopoly of theo after we get education so we'll have a monopoly tech with which to get gunpowder. I know that we'll be forfeiting our tech lead on the upper half of the MA tech tree. but we need gunpowder really bad. We can't upgrade to muskets because we need every penny for deficit research, so we just need that tech ASAP to start our 20-30 muskets. And maybe some boats right now.

We need gunpowder ASAP, that overrides all other priorities. Once we get some leaders from Rome, we can systematically take out either France or Persia, whichever is more powerful when we're ready to attack.

 

[I. Larkin]

I finish 10.5 turns

 

[I. Larkin]

0 50*AD Renegotiate Peace treaty with Sumeria.
They agree continue as it is, but I give Eng get MA vs Persia and 11 gpt+all their gold.
IBT ZZZ

1 70*AD Babylon got some success at war vs Greece. They Capture Thermophile, pillage both Greek’s Iron and found 2 Cities at NW Island. However some losses occurred but it let some cash “free”. Give to Hammurapy Literature for 23+12 gpt. Now our flow is 1500+ - 9gpt. Moreovere we have less units that allowed. France has Chivalry. Redo IRRIGATE for 2 turns worker factory. It is more efficient then to wait 10-15 turn when big Cities grow.

IBT France and Sumeria made a Peace Treaty. We are at war with Sumeria and have WH.

2 90*AD continue pre/build tactics. Lux still 20% but Cities may have more food. We may make peace with anybody now, but I decided to wait.
IBT ZZZ

3 110*AD zzz
IBT ZZZ
4 130*AD zzz
IBT ZZZ
5 150*AD
IBT ZZZ
6 170*AD zzz
IBT France research Theology
7 190*AD
IBT ZZZ
8 210*AD Persia also has Theology. Edu at 3.
IBT ZZZ
9 230*AD zzz
IBT ZZZ
10 250*AD Lost 2 Galleys vs French
decided to play IBT not to miss universities.
IBT Got Edu and via Big Picture swich to universities. New French galley appear.

Save of 260 AD attached above. We will have Astronomy at 11. We may have enough troops to attack Hamadan (south from Sumeria). Persia and Sumeria at war so this Island have no Iron. 3-4 galleys with 1-2 Spears and 5-6 Horses may take it (I think).
Next Easy target is Greece. Frankly speaking, don’t know is it Heraclea or better unload near Samarra, (RoP first) and after understading “what’s going on” continue. For my view, Sumeria (if MA with France) is easer then Rome.

Tech trade. We may get Invention +66+38 gpt for Education. Don’t know. May be better to wait and continue as it is until we have some cash.

 

[ThERat]

Amazingly we have a monopoly on education. I would say, keep it and try and get a monopoly on astro as well so we can invade some minor Islands. Hopefilly we gain a MGL for a musket army later on.

 

[Own]

What's going on here? We got a monopoly on sid and do not trade it!!!!!! We could've gotten invention and then gunpowder for education and then been on our way producing muskets to invade rome. For war happiness? And now we're talking about building a bunch of boats and horses to take a three tile all plains island that will be a huge flip risk to Sumeria anyway. Our goal should be to take out france after getting several armies from rome, but instead we're concentrating on securing a wealth and scientist city. 4 beakers, one gold to treasury and 2 support gold is all that city will give us.

Bottom line is we need gunpowder ASAP. That is the only tech we really need to take out france. Cavalry and hwachas are nice and would speed up the process, but we have trebs and will have longbows, and those things and muskets armies are all that's needed even against rifles for a systematic conquest.

 

[I. Larkin]

What's going on here? We got a monopoly on sid and do not trade it!!!!!! We could've gotten invention and then gunpowder for education and then been on our way producing muskets to invade rome. For war happiness? And now we're talking about building a bunch of boats and horses to take a three tile all plains island that will be a huge flip risk to Sumeria anyway. Our goal should be to take out france after getting several armies from rome, but instead we're concentrating on securing a wealth and scientist city. 4 beakers, one gold to treasury and 2 support gold is all that city will give us.

Bottom line is we need gunpowder ASAP. That is the only tech we really need to take out france. Cavalry and hwachas are nice and would speed up the process, but we have trebs and will have longbows, and those things and muskets armies are all that's needed even against rifles for a systematic conquest.

I think we should raze Hamadan and build our own City. We are not that low on culture to flip to Sumeria. It is easy to defend this Island before AW and use it as a base to attack Sumeria in “remote future. I am not sure, that France is major jeopardy in this game. Our task is “land in radius 40”.
So I think we should start from Greece. Now they are weak vs Babylons and if war continue we have a good chanse to get Greeks Iron and Gems. Also, if there is a land in Black area we may settle there if we keep monopoly on Astro and Navigation as long as possible.
Note, that we may put Galleys at sea if we will have Astro NEXT turn.
Astro may come at 10 actually and I think at turn 13 (390 AD) we may take Hamadan, and consider trade Persia/ France. I also hope that somebody else will get Invention and we will get it for Theology, say.
That mean, that we stay at war as it is and do not trade Techs. Or we have other ideas?

 

[I. Larkin]

Amazingly we have a monopoly on education. I would say, keep it and try and get a monopoly on astro as well so we can invade some minor Islands. Hopefilly we gain a MGL for a musket army later on.

I mainly agree with this plan. Hamadan and Heraclea are good targets.
Also I think we may have a chanse vs main land of Greece