Sid variant

[ignas]

It's hard to say what is better - to trade or not to trade. By trading Edu away we will of course increase tech pace (not good) but we will get 2 vital techs for our expansion (invention and GP). I'd say not trade now and hope some civ which lacks theology will come up with invention. Some cities are busy building unis and we can't swap immediately to mass unit build up, also until navigation we won't be able to attack Greece so there's no hurry here and plenty time to build sufficient number of muskets, longbows and caravels.
I'd also to go for greece (they won't have many troops after the wars with babylon and as their irons are pillaged they won't have attack 4 units).
So I'd stick to Ivan's plan

 

[Own]

Ok, I got it. You are right that the decision on target doens't need to be made now, so I'll just play ten. I'll finish soon.

I'll hold off on the trade until we have astronomy, unless the price for education starts dropping, then I'll trade it right away, because that means France is researching it.

And just to continue the endless debate:crazyeyes: : (which, we should all remember, is nothing personal)

(they won't have many troops after the wars with babylon and as their irons are pillaged they won't have attack 4 units).

This assessment(sp?) has been made multiple times, and it is just horribly wrong. We know that the AI has lots of units, and we know that they are reckless with them. So it is easy to imagine two giant AIs with huge stacks killing eachother with massive casualties. But it doesn't work like that. The AI is reckless because they will expose troops a lot. They are very careful about who they attack. An archer will not attack an elite spear on a hill, nor will it attack a vet pike on a hill, or a fortified vet musket (I think). The huge AI stacks will have tons of defenders on top. So the whole war will be big stacks shuffling around whatever open tile they can find, and the only fights happen when:
-One stack gets next to an enemy city.
Or
-A random horse or archer stack gets exposed

I am not making this up, I have seen this first hand. This is how AIs fight eachother. If the islands were huge, and the border from Greece to Babylon was far, far away from our landing site, one could make the case that their troops would be too far away.

And what's the attraction of Greece over France? France and Persia are the only civs that are with us in tech. If we could eliminate one or preferably both we could coast to victory. And France will only be harder than Greece in that we'd have to travel a farther distance to meet them, and they'd have better defenders which requires more artillery, nothing more. 100 trebs would be good enough, and a stack that big takes surprisingly little time to produce.

But of course, since none of this matters for now, I'll go on and play.

 

[ignas]

well sid, sid, almost everyone can beat sid these days with a right setup. And i say 30 muskets landed on a hill won't be slaughtered if MA with Babylon against Greece will be signed few turns before we land, all units will be thrown at Babylon front, just newly produced will attack us. We must to agree how many troops we need. As far as i've seen they attack everything, for example musketman on marsh is attacked by archer, lots of archers, until they win, they waste many units.
Though if Education is being researched by other civ trade it immeaditely

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:
30 musket? Currently have not learned Invention or GP. Then you have what 4 towns that are netting 10 shields, so they will need 6 turns to made a musket. Yeah they will do better in a bit.

Going to take a while to get 30 muskets and then you need 10 galleys. If you are after France you need something to kill Musketeers, which are like rifles.

So you will need either lots of attackers like Knights or attackers backed with bombardment or armies. All in all that will take a very long time.

I find that if I do not have a civ near enough to actually reach me, then I have no armies to fight with for too long.

This can be fixed, if France can send you some leader fodder or you can launch on someone close and small and backward. If Rome fits the bill, then you can hope to get a leader from them and the extra land is not a bad thing either.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

BTW, island Sid civs are going to choke on thier own units regardless of any wars. They cannot help it as they build all available structures so fast, they just keep making troops as a default.

Wars do seem to force them to disband workers sooner than they otherwise would.

As to trade, just look at the map and see how many civs are locked by ocean tiles at least 3 deep. If most have any means to get to the next landmass, then they will.

I do not know if you have see the map enough to know if they have access or not. So you may have to guess.

 

[Own]

Argh... I can't get to this tonight. Again too much homework. But, being the "weekend warrior" that I am, I will surely get to this at the latest friday night.

 

[Own]

Pre-turn- Just some MM. No trades.

1. Whale City uni > barracks. France has education now. Oh well, I trade education to Persia for invention, but I have to throw in 130g probably because of the peace treaty. Hire a scientist in Cowigula.

2. France and Merka sign MA against us. Toxicity uni > LB. Cowigula uni > rax. what? uni > rax. Surprisingly reasearch does not drop at all. Persia and France both have gunpowder. We could have had GP a while ago, but now we can't have it for another 8 turns IF we can be the first to astronomy. 30 muskets will take a while to build... Hire a scientist in Ulsan.

3. Geek treb > treb. Not much else.

4. Ulsan galley > galley. There are many french galleys patroling our coast. I doubt they have any troops in them because those usually have 3 boats for protection.

5. Sariwon harbor > duct. Nothing else.

Sorry I only played five, I'm feeling wimpy, but I just got home after a party after a long week, and I've got to get up early tomorrow. Here's the save.

 

[I. Larkin]

Loked at save. More or less OK.
Pity that we can't attack Hamadan
I think we need some Micromanagement.
I Think we do not need rax more. Better to build ships
for example Flint Valley may build LB in 1 turn say. We have RoP with greece, may be we will send some scouting units? (and cancel RoP when we will be ready?)
As I understand Own will continue 5 turns more?
Here is red zone, where we still will be "productive". France is "out of this zone".
Notice, that Babs and Greeks at peace. Greeks have Iron again. Babs may pay 9 gpt. May be we drive them at war for Mono, say?
german has invention, btw. So we could wait and get it for Theology.

 

[Own]

Sigh... I feel completely uninspired to play civ. It has nothing to do with this particular game nor it's current course which I happen to disagree with. It's just me being really busy with school work and civ interest taking an unexpected dive, it happens every now and then but I'm usually back in a few months. I'm going to have to drop out. Sorry if I've left y'all with too few players.

 

[ignas]

So it's my turn if Own drops out. Got it, will play probably tomorrow.
Will keep building few longbows, and galleys. MA vs greece with babylon is probably a good idea, it will keep them busy, they will burn some troops

 

[I. Larkin]

So it's my turn if Own drops out. Got it, will play probably tomorrow.
Will keep building few longbows, and galleys. MA vs greece with babylon is probably a good idea, it will keep them busy, they will burn some troops

So? We did not discuss what to do with Astronomy. In fact French will gain very little from Astro, so we may trade it for GP, I think.
I remind, that next Tech is Navigation and I want monopoly as long as possible for that.
We did not decide who we attack first. May be Rome ?(inspite of island Civ)?
Idea is to land warrior to wet penisula and 2 turns later settler with 2-3 Musk and LB to Cow (say). Build City and make a peace. 20 turns later...

 

[ignas]

OK i'm sorry for the delay, I was on a trip, truly forgot this interesting game . I will play tomorrow, really.
i'll go for navigation, trade astro for GP ASAP, as Larkin wants
I'd say we should attack Greece combined withBabylon MA vs Greece. Many GL opportunities and regropuing after Greece war against Babs (Babylon won't have many troops after war) babylon very soon we should conquer if enough force

 

[I. Larkin]

OK i'm sorry for the delay, I was on a trip, truly forgot this interesting game . I will play tomorrow, really.
i'll go for navigation, trade astro for GP ASAP, as Larkin wants
I'd say we should attack Greece combined with Babylon MA vs Greece. Many GL opportunities and regropuing after Greece war against Babs (Babylon won't have many troops after war) babylon very soon we should conquer if enough force

I do not understand, whats going on. Roster stuck for twelve days without good reason. I did not insist 24+48 rules, but if nothing appears from Ignas today (28 November) ThERat up.

 

[ThERat]

ok, I will take it then

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
do as discussed and get Babylon and Greece into a war, we also get 9gpt

IT France actually lands a musket on our land next to our capital

1.320AD
suicide a horse on the musket, then take it out with a LB, but barely, we need more troops
lose a galley, but sink a French galley that I suspect has units on board

IT more French galleys come into view

2. 330AD
Persia has gunpowder and chivalry as French have

IT bas news as French start Cops...astro is gone

3.340AD
drop science to 60% and astro done next turn
sink another 2 full French galleys, lose 1

IT astro is in and our galley in deeper waters can't sink now

4.350AD
Persia still does not have astro luckily
get gunpowder for it, but need to throw in 300gold as well
we are very lucky as we have gunpowder next to cherbourgh (no wonder they settled there)

switch a few cities to muskets, upgrade a galley to caravel

5. 360AD
join 2 workers as thy got nothing to do here

6. 370AD
sink another galley, but lose a caravel

IT America asks for pace, I agree and throw in theology for 42gold and 4gpt

7.380AD
France went for PP first, good for us, maybe we can get navigation first
check out the Greek land with an empty galley and caravel

IT French finish Sistine as well

8.390AD
send another French galley to the bottom of the ocean

IT Persia finishes Cops a turn after they started it???

9. 400AD
nth

10.410AD
Navigation will be done in 3. I think we should continue to build up a force and drop it on the Greek
Island. I am sure our muskets can do th job if we add some LB's and trebs. We are getting more caravels now

we still have 9 workers, that we could merge now that we have done all improvements

Babylon now has some money and we could sell them theology for 15gpt if we think we need that
I think after navigation, we need to head for Mil Tradition for cavalry

 

[I. Larkin]

IT Persia finishes Cops a turn after they started it???

I think it is cascade from Chapel.

defeat 2 units next to Mecca

Where is a Mecca? I think you copy -paste from another game...
Any idea, should we
a) make peace with France?
b) Trade out navigation staright away?
My suggestion for a) - yes, for b) no
but I am very not sure.
Will be greatfull if lurkers give comments.
BTW, because of losses (Own, Ignas(?)), anybody want to play here?

 

[ThERat]

Where is a Mecca?

wrong entry from another game...edited my post

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

Don't forget that the AI can rush wonders with an MGL, only humans cannot.

 

[ThERat]

Don't forget that the AI can rush wonders with an MGL, only humans cannot.

are you sure about that? I never knew that

 

[I. Larkin]

Lurker:

Don't forget that the AI can rush wonders with an MGL, only humans cannot.

Who knows. But in present it is obviusly cascade.