simple_01 Is This Monkey Craaaazy??

[SimpleMonkey]

I believe that means we'll skip to Andronicus, unless he won't get to it until tomorrow or later, in which case I should be back up and running.

Was that sufficiently confusing?

 

[choxorn]

I believe that means we'll skip to Andronicus, unless he won't get to it until tomorrow or later, in which case I should be back up and running.

Was that sufficiently confusing?

what about markh (who never posted his last turn report...)? And yes, it was sufficiently confusing.

 

[markh]

what about markh (who never posted his last turn report...)?

I posted, but actually there was nothing to report. As far as I can remember I sank 3 or 4 galleys. More didn't show up. All the rest were worker moves which would have been quite boring to read for the lurkers.

 

[Andronicus]

got it
have played a couple of turns

I posted a plan for a science farm in our north detailing which areas should only be irrigated. There has been no comment so I presume no-one disageed.
Yet when I open thre save I find workers in our far north roading mountains and mining deserts. Why? Unless we revolt to commie these towns will never get more than 1 shield and 1 commerce but with max food they can support lots of scientists. Many towns in the north have clowns and are working mountains, deseats or hills. I was able to hire an extra 36 (I think from memory) scientists - thats an extra 105 science per turn! By irrigating fully and growing to max scientist support I expect to be able to support another 30 -50.

Re strategy
I note some reluctance to start beach head
Incans have metallurgy at start of turn, they may have cavs before I finish

My plan is to est beach head as soon as practical and absorb the Incans, our main risk is culture

By pushing science I hope we can get to cavs soon then switch off science and upgrade horsemen (are producing lots currently).
Science can be regained after capturing GLib city
I worry we may be fighting rifles - will need cannons for support in razing cities

Any comments?

 

[markh]

What does the upgrade from pikes to muskets cost ? Muskets + cats might do the job in the beginning. If we land 20 - 25 muskets with cats + a leader we can form an army there and have a safe spot, so maybe we should let some galleys pass our lines to enable us to get this leader.

 

[Andronicus]

What does the upgrade from pikes to muskets cost ? Muskets + cats might do the job in the beginning. If we land 20 - 25 muskets with cats + a leader we can form an army there and have a safe spot, so maybe we should let some galleys pass our lines to enable us to get this leader.

not sure of cost, but getting money for this upgrade would involve turning off / down research and hence delaying cavs. I would prefer to research at max to mil trad then turn off research / switch science farm to tax farm until we capture GLib.

We have avail a few muskets plus a doz pikes (from memory) plus about 7 cats and 3 or 4 trebs.
My thought is to take this force over first then return for ACs

Agree with letting some boats pass our lines - there are currently too many craft to successfully bombard all so I have (just) decided to let Spanish land since they have more ancient units. It is likely a few Incan caravels will get through (they have been approaching from the west as well as north and we may have difficulty if they coordinate strikes from north, east and west)

 

[SimpleMonkey]

We were mining mountains up north??? This is not so good. They didn't get automated did they?

I agreed with Andronicus's science farm plans for the north, including the city moves. Agree also to research full speed till cavs and then shut it off for a while. If this game lasts long enough for us to want Steam Power, I'd be surprised.

BTW, I wouldn't count on us getting too much out of the GLib. Inca Dude appears to be well ahead of the pack. We might pick up some techs depending on what Korea knows, but in my experience, Korea is one of the less stellar Scientific civs. Plus they've apparently been getting some serious beatings from the Inca.

Agree also with letting some Spanish galleys through for leader farming. I'd still be using our dromons to try to pillage Inca Dude's shores, however modest our success has been on that front, sink all his caravels, and get ready for D-Day. To that end, let's pump out muskets, rather than worrying about upgrading our pikes (or spears ).

The re-revised roster is:

goz - skipped due to RL work
Andronicus - PLAYING!
markh - ON DECK
SimpleMonkey - on leave due to technical difficulties, should be good to go soon
classical hero - fought Midway instead of Normandy

 

[choxorn]

To that end, let's pump out muskets, rather than worrying about upgrading our pikes (or spears ).

Then don't upgrade the spears, and use them against Inca dude's tanks!

 

[Andronicus]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Theodora_of_the_Byzantines,_950_AD.SAV

Preturn

Note salt by proposed beach head. Propose we let Incans connect it as they have other salt sites and if we rush a rax in Beach head it could allow us to upgrade there

Workers in corrupt north are roading mountain by Bryansk and mining desert salt as well as roading forests and hills . These areas will not produce any extra commerce nor shields unless we are commie (a long way off) meanwhile there are many grass tiles needing irrigation to support more scientists (eg Orenburg cannot access a irrigated grass tile).
Worker on tundra west of Ani - what is it doing? This tile is not in our cultural borders nor will it ever be worked unless we put a town on that tundra
I asign priority worker tasks to irrigating grass tiles for science farms and mining plains tiles in core cities needing more shields to build infrastructure before able to grow.

Science farm towns are in disarray - they are hiring clowns (St P 3 clowns -> 4 scientists), wasting surplus food (Kras. has 7 surplus food not able to use - can hire 4 scientists), working 0 or 1 food tiles (should only work 3 or more food tiles).
Bryansk is building market - in totally corrupt town where scientists will prevent happiness issues - why? - switched to settler ( I put many builds to settlers as req further towns for science farm and unit support - once we have enough they can switch to trebs).
Similarly Moscow is building court (this one is possibly borderline as court could get 2spt and 2 commerce per turn, but I prefer 2-3 scientists and court will take 78 turns unless we rush it and IMO there are better things to spend our pennies on)

Spent 2 hours on MM (OK who's obsessive compulsive then? )

IT
Yaraslavl court -> market
Smyrna market -> duct
Sardica lib -> treb
Vidin treb -> treb

1) 860AD
Destroy 1 Incan caravel (1-0)
Shuffling units for mp allows lux to come down to 0%

IT
Heraclea court -> market
Incans build Copernicus

2) 870AD
more MM
start roading gem mountain for when Naissus abandoned (in 9 turns)

IT
Chemistry -> Metallurgy
Con settler -> HM
Caesarea HM -> musket

3) 880AD
sink Incan galley and caravel (galley came from west) (3-0)

IT
Varna HM ->HM

4) 890AD
New Nicaea in old swampland
Sink 2 Incan caraverls (5-0)

IT
Red lined Korean galley sinks our 4/4 dromon in a stack??? (5-1)
Adri duct -> musket
Dyracchium lib -> market
Krasnorask settler -> lib (cultural pressure from across the straight)
Sardica treb -> treb

5) 900AD
Sink that Korean galley (6-1)
Settler boards so invasion force ready (D-day minus 2)
Let a Spanish galley through - need to give our home defence something to do and Spanish are backward - lack invention
Our galleys find why Spanish are backward - they are isolated on their own island

IT
Con HM -> HM
Nicaea musket -> HM
Caesarea HM -> HM

6) 910AD
New Varna settled ICS in old swamp region
Invasion fleet sets forth (D-day minus 1)

IT
Inca Stinka dromon -> dromon
Chalcedon court -> musket
Amorium dromon -> dromon
Brusa market -> duct
New Constantinople settler -> dromon

7) 920AD
The landing - 36 units ready for Beach head - not only will it have salt, but it will also have spices (once Tiwanaku razed that is)
With all 18 dromons involved in the landing 3 Spanish galleys and 1 Incan caravel slip through
New Smyrna settled in old swamp
Workers joined to new science cities to speed growth and hiring of scientists (have been doing this all along where there are unused food bonus tiles)
Several size 6 towns waiting for ducts have been mined to starve a bit (and build duct sooner), can then be re-irrigated to grow (eg Smyrna)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/930AD_Invasion_force.JPG

IT
Metallurgy (SoZ obsolete) -> Military Tradition
Varna HM -> HM
Taormina court -> market
Spanish land sword / archer adj New Andronopole

8) 930AD
Beach Head settled - rush walls
Move stack of pikes, swords, cats and trebs onto hill adj Tiwanaka (ACs and muskets remain in Beach Head)
Sink Incan galley (7-1)
vAC d Sw, AC Army disposes of archer (9-1)

IT
Spanish land archer knight same place as before
Incans land LB and 2 cavs just north New Andronopole
Con HM -> musket (all musket builds now are pre builds for cavs - due in 6)
Septum market ->duct
Caesrea HM -> musket
Trebizond duct -> rax
Beach Head walls -> lib (I am more concerned at losing this city to flip)

9) 940AD
@ Tiwanaka cats and trebs go 5/11 - only 3 muskets, vAC loses 3/4 musk, vAC loses vCav, vAC d 2/4 musk, eSw d 2/4 musk -> GML named Incan Doom -> army save for cavs . eSw loses 2/4 musk -> promotes 2/5, eAC d 2/5musk, vAC retreats eMDI, vAC d 3/4cav, vAC d 3/5MDI, eAC d 1/5cav -> we raze Tiwanaka for 8 slaves and 2 cannon (15-4)
On home front AC Army d cav *2, eHM retreats undamaged LB, AC army d knight, vHM d arch, vAC d LB - that was all the units we had that could reach the area (20-4)
Rush lib using up all our gold

IT
Spanish galley going down our west coast (Archer Army is shadowing)
dromons defeat Sp galley and Incan caravel on defence (had weakened both last turn) (22-4)
Incan counter attack : 3 crusaders d pikes, LB d pike, crusader loses to our 4/6AC (23-8)
Pentagon message
Nicaea HM -> musket
Sandica canon -> rax
Beach Head lib -> harbour (next player can decide if want harbour to bring spices home or rax for healing) - ( edit damn - just realised there are ocean tiles so harbour useless - please switch to rax)

10) 950AD
sink Incan caravel and Spanish galley (25-8)
edit - misclicked a sword and sent him to mountain instead of Beach Head
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM01_950AD_Incan_front.JPG

Notes
Chalcedon has scientist to delay musket build - there are 5 or 6 musket builds due in next 5 or 6 turns which are pre builds for cavs. Mil Trad due in 4 turns.
We currently have 25 HM which cost 150g (I think) to upgrade each. We could pump out another 6 or 8 to upgrade, but I think it will be too expensive and take a while to afford all those upgrades even turning our science farm into tax farm.
Some workers have movement left - I leave it for next player to decide - the science cities below size 4 need increasing to size 4 to support 2 scientists - adding native workers allows this to happen quicker and reduces our unit costs. I have mined various core cities to starving to speed production, these will need re-irrigating before they actually starve and further irrigating to allow growth (size 9 or 10 is OK with 0 lux and 3 mp) when ducts and markets complete.
Have tried to get as many core cities at 10 spt - currently 5, but Chalcedon is deliberately being kept lower and Sardica can use Vlad's hill once Vlad completes court.
Ancyra is size 3 and about to starve - it cannot remain size 3 without taking good shields from productive cities - so it must shrink. Since it is going to shrink this turn anyway I have hired 3 scientists there.

Army is in Beach Head unfilled - suggest not safe leaving there as flip risk - keep empty and take to home continent and add a cav when avail, leaving other 2 cavs for when it has been transported back to Incan land.

 

[Andronicus]

Stayed up late finishing this - will be going away tomorrow for Easter - in unlikely event this comes around before Wed please skip me

Have fun beating up on those Incans

 

[Andronicus]

Strategy check - my thoughts, comments appreciated

Science
4 turns to MT, then turn off science until capture GLib at Ollyantaybo (or whatever) - suggets delaying this ASAP - if capital shifts to GLib city and we raze all other cities on that peninsula then Inca dude will have to deal with heaps of corruption
Only reason to turn back on science after GLib capture is if we think we will need RR, arty or commie - I think not unless we have more resistance than I expect
GLib will not give a lot - at present I expect both Incans and Koreans have most medieval techs, but Spain is backward. If Korea is eliminated by Incans then we may only get 3 or 4 techs (I have not seen Spanish caravels so doubt they have astronomy)
If we are confident that we do not require further research after MT then we could sell all libs (other than those req for border expansion). This is my thought but carries a risk that I would prefer not to wear unless everyone else wants to go this way

Commerce
Science farm can be changed to tax farm when MT discovered, along with 100% tax rate we should generate good income for
1) HM upgrades
2) shortrushing cavs (ie rushing muskets then switching to 2 turn cav in 10spt cities)

Military
As alluded to I would suggest hitting Inca hard at their core cities once we have a stack of cavs at Beach Head (along with our new soon-to-be-cav Army). Once core gone GLib could be captured and we should be able to slice through remaining Incans and Koreans before unloading on Spanish for rapid conquest there (am I getting ahead of myself?) Do we aim for conquest or domination?

Settlers
- still about 10 sites for ICS towns which will be part of tax farm, only go for those which can access food boni tiles (should have access to 2 irrigated grass supporting 2 specialists at size 4) I was growing these to size 6 and cyclically growing and then starving to hire extra scientist to generate extra science but lots of effort for small extra beakers.
Once sufficient settlers built can switch current builds to ? cannon (not sure what best builds in our corrupt cities will be - thoughts?)

Dromons
- still useful to keep most incursions from our thinly defended homelands - I been slack on pillaging because of transport logistics, but identifying Incan salt and pillaging it would be useful - suggest stacks of 5 dromons should pillage approx in 2 turns

 

[Andronicus]

ROSTER
goz - skipped due to RL work
Andronicus - Led D-day invasion and got leader for cav army
markh - UP
SimpleMonkey - ON DECK
classical hero - fought Midway instead of Normandy

 

[markh]

Great set, Andronicus

I will take it tonight.

According to the map I can see the Koreans will be gone soon, so GLib will not get us much. Anyway in my set I think my task will be to hold the beach head and to get a good attacking force together for simple monkey.

 

[Andronicus]

According to the map I can see the Koreans will be gone soon, so GLib will not get us much. Anyway in my set I think my task will be to hold the beach head and to get a good attacking force together for simple monkey.

Dont forget to get our army to safety - I would not recommend leaving it in Beach Head because of flip risk, it can be brought back over when cavs avail - should be at the front in 7 or 8 turns so you may get to attack with our cav army - enjoy

 

[markh]

Dont forget to get our army to safety - I would not recommend leaving it in Beach Head because of flip risk, it can be brought back over when cavs avail - should be at the front in 7 or 8 turns so you may get to attack with our cav army - enjoy

Not to worry, I never leave leaders or armies in cities with flip risk. Only in very special cases. In my games cities tend to always flip, so not an issue for me.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

Awesome set, Andronicus! We've got a successful D-Day landing.

Agree with strategy suggestions. I also remember seeing a fort at the thin peninsular neck that separates the two parts of the Inca Dude's kingdom. Taking that from him with lots of bombardment should be quite useful strategically, I think.

Agree also with markh that the Koreans will soon be gone, so GLib will be minimally useful. I'd like to keep research running, but maybe not at breakneck levels, to get us to Nationalism. Yeah, that means a bunch of MA techs, but if we're gonna let Inca Dude live long enough to get rifles (not that I'd like this option), then we need 'em too.

A few more razes and Beach Head should be considerably safer from flip risks.

Go to it, markh!

 

[choxorn]

Great set, Andronicus

I will take it tonight.

According to the map I can see the Koreans will be gone soon, so GLib will not get us much. Anyway in my set I think my task will be to hold the beach head and to get a good attacking force together for simple monkey.

Yeah- you might even want to raze the GL city if the Koreans have <5 cities left, because Inca will crush them

 

[gozpel]

Hey, what about that swap I asked...it's Friday tomorrow and I see you "skip" me? I never asked for a skip.

Anyways, just love the way Andy takes the game in to control and sort things out. Absolutely fantastic!

 

[gozpel]

I got a new job and can't play until Friday, my time.

All corrupt towns has to go on food and food only as priority. These extra citizens of course will become our power in research (or sometimes gold-hoarders)

Normally, I'm known as the MM-dude. But with the stress IRL I didn't have to, and we've found a great successor (and another calculator) within Andy. (Ando?)

I can't say much, maybe I'm skipped and then any of my reasons are futile.

 

[markh]

Goz, you can have it if you like. No problem. I will not be able to get to it tonight.