simple_01 Is This Monkey Craaaazy??

[Andronicus]

Great progress guys

I dont think anything can stop us now, its just questions of when and how

Do we want domination or conquest?
- my vote is conquest and just raze cities from here in (maybe keep a lux or 2)

Science - not convinced on the nationalism - commie thing but I guess we're nearly there. Rails will speed our approach and give sig production boost, but I would be keen to stop science soon and use our economy to cash rush cavs which even against rifles will prove an irresistable force. Of course commie prevents cash rushing and short rushing which is partly why I think its a waste. Commie also negates our science / tax farms (which I note we are neglecting).
To get better attacking units we would need tanks and I dont see this game going that long.


Should we mobilise? - means we are stuck with continued mobilisation, but I reckon we could just pump out units (vet cavs) and over run the opposition - who needs infrastructure?

 

[Andronicus]

Find that Naissus has one shield left to a settler, but it's only pop 1. Swap to cannon and put it back to growth.

Plan was to abandon when it accumulated the shields for settler

 

[classical_hero]

Put me on hold for the moment. I am very busy at work so I will not have much time to play any saves. Sorry about this.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

I just took a look at the save. We have Nationalism (must have popped it as our free tech) and Medicine. Commie is coming online in 7. Ordinarily I'd say go for Steam and then Espionage, but the game might not last that long. CivAssist says that we'd be awesome as a commie empire with the SPHQ in Cuzco. If we think it's going to take us a while to clear out the map, then it might be worth it. Otherwise we could get Steam Power, rail like crazy (a great thing in wartime!), and maybe even go with Andronicus's suggestion --shut off research, mobilize, and go nuts with the cavs. My own thought is to play it up the midde -- research Espionage, leader-rush the SPHQ, go commie, steal Steam from whoever has it by then, and finish the game in high style with a conquest. (I assume we can plant a spy in enemy even if we don't have embassies there.) I wouldn't mobilize in AW unless it was right at the end. I don't like losing the flexibility.

Oh, and let's not forget that we can now use cops to cut down on city corruption.

Okay, enough of me belaboring the obvious. We're doing fantastic, guys!

 

[choxorn]

Intersting idea about taking out Spain now. With luck they might even have a lux or two that we can now use since we have Navigation and Magnetism. And it's a big step towards the Domination limit. Unless we want to do nothing but pillage and destroy from here on out and go for a Conquest win. Any opinions?

Good idea. Enough cavs attcking spain, and they're history. Then use what's left to attack Inca (and Korea if Inca and Korea are no longer at war). If all of their cavs are holding you off up north, a southern attack would work very well.

 

[gozpel]

I can't play until the weekend again, so please skip/swap.

There's no reason to do anything now but build cavs, cavs and more cavs and send them over. Short-rushing by turning off research, Why would we want another tech when the game is over in a few turnsets?

Ah well, some galleons would do great of course.

We took out the core already so the rest of the game should be a breeze.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

With C_H on hold and goz tied up until the weekend, it looks like it's Andronicus up to bat. Can the three of us raze our way to glory and finish this one with one turn each? We shall see.

 

[Andronicus]

OK "got it"

Still would like to consider mobilisation - very powerful if no infrastructure needed and I cant see we need to complete all the temple builds going on at the moment - a LB will do well as extra mp for only 40 shields and can be produced by corrupt towns allowing core to concentrate on cavs

Because mobilisation is irreversible I wont mobilise unless there is agreement to go that way. Hope to play later today.
Plan to research rails ASAP, not sure on switching to commie (I lack experience here) Remember civassist does not take into account the benefit we get from science / tax farms and from cash / short rushing.
Commie would need quite a production benefit to overcome this, particuarly as most currently corrupt towns lack rax and that would need to be first build (after a period of anarchy). I suspect it may be quite a few turns before revolting to commie pays off, but I am prepared to be persuaded by reasoned argument .

 

[SimpleMonkey]

Commie would be a powerful government if we planned to take this game a fair chunk further. If we can knock this out in three turnsets there may not be as much point. I like commie since we don't have civil engineers to make our distant holdings productive, we get even more effective MP happiness (I'm pretty sure), and I love to pop rush conquered cities. However, there is the anarchy to consider. Having just played a solo game where I had to sit through 9 mind-numbing turns of anarchy, I'd hate to see what the RNG would hand us with our empire as big as it is.

We are close to the domination limit. My preference would be to take the chokepoint first thing, and then raze everything west of it. Hold and develop everything west of it, since there's so much useful stuff that Inca Dude built there. Rails would be incredibly powerful for doing this, as we can just chain-gang slaves from rockpile to rockpile, giving our units friction-free travel and allowing cities to be taken in rapid sequence. Wait a minute -- since Inca Dude will have deep culture borders for everything we're attacking, and we're not planning on keeping anything, rails might not help that much. Well, they'd help if we kept conquered cities, railed through the claimed territory, then sold off all improvements and abandoned our conquests. Just a thought.

If we abandon the research on Communism and switch a lot of our tax collectors into scientists, how fast could we get Steam?

I'm starting to be tempted by the go-for-broke approach of mobilization. Again, if we're going to finish this game fairly quickly, and are never planning to take it as far as wanting to build factories or tanks, then just dumping everything into a massive cav rush might just be the way to go. Perhaps wiser heads than mine could chime in here, eh?

 

[SimpleMonkey]

@goz -- Please give a holler if you free up anytime to play before this weekend. We can do a swap out at any point if you'd like to get a set in, rather than do a complete skip.

 

[Andronicus]

I've done pre turn MM and can get steam in 6 turns

I've analysed mobilisation in both monarchy and commumism

If our core is focused on cavs we can produce 68 vet cavs (approx) in next 40 turns in monarchy. If mobilised this increases to 107.

Switching to commie makes very little difference in 40 turns of production (I calculate 67 nonmobilised, 98 mobilised - but some assumptions may not hold up), although developing outer towns will increase cav production after rax and mining but will forego production for anarchy turns - possibly as much as 8 turns. The time for outer towns to make up 8 turns worth of production (having first built rax) I estimate to be between 18 and 25. So basically commie appears better if game lasts much longer than 65 turns. On the other hand having units earlier is greater advantage before Inca dude gets stronger than later - confused you yet?

None of these calculations take into account effect of railroading which will occur much earlier if we forgo commie and research rails straight away

I will wait as I would like to forgo commie (can research in 6 turns) and mobilise next turn after rushing a duct in Yaroslavl, but this is irreversible so any votes against and I will not mobilise (would still prefer to get rails first though)

 

[SimpleMonkey]

It appears that if we want a one-way ticket to a focused conquest victory, mobilizing and going straight for rails in 6 is the way to go. Thanks, Andronicus, for pulling up the numbers to clarify this. I can't argue with the prospect of 107 vet cavs (probably more than that, since that's not counting railing and serious re-micromanaging). I suspect that Inca Dude won't be able to argue much with that either.

Any senior lurkers (you know who you are) care to chime in on this course of action?

Oh, and I'd move our labor stack back towards the core in anticipation of railing. We'll have all the slave labor we need on the other continent if we raze every city from now on. Keep a road network over there and in Spain, and build colonies to connect any more lux that we can get. Well, I guess that we'll need one town kept alive in Spain to have a harbor.

 

[Andronicus]

The quick update

After reading SM's note above I bit the bullet and mobilised

I'm pretty sure this will be my last turn - at start of turn there were 20 Incan cities left - now 15 and Inca dude has a lot less units, whilst we have a lot more

Korea is 2 cities and Spain 7 but in middle ages - I havnt worried about them, rather flinging everything at the Incans.

Science is 1 scientist towards electricity in case we wanted arty - I dont think so - feel free to sell off libs to buy some more cavs

I had optimised spt for our core cities, but recent RRing is upsetting the nice numbers. Not sure how much effort we need to put into this now. The main focus is to get units into position, RR allowing cannons to quickly get up to support cavs. Most of my city attacks have been with cav armies, all but one are currently requiring healing

A few fun turns still to go - I really enjoyed this set

 

[Andronicus]

Turn log

Pre turn
As discussed above I switch to steam - 15 turns, science to 100% -> 11 turns, hire max scientists (starving some towns) -> 6 turns

Starve down all X-Incan cities - big flip risk

Decide to mobilise - rush duct in Yaraslavl, will mobilise next turn

I dont think this game will last 60 turns - so not worth the anarchy in switching to commie (even if it does last 60 tirns, production will have ceased being an issue by then)

Sell improvements in X-Incan cities (keep a few rax for healing / upgrading), sell harbours, libs in corrupt towns

All core towns to rax or cavs, corrupt towns to galleys, cannon or workers

IT
New Heraclea cannon -> worker
Yarslavl duct -> cav
Prilep rax -> cav
Machu Picchu riots as resistors quelled
Korea completes Newton's in Hattasus

1) 1305AD
cavs clear out LB and cav (2-0)
dromon successfully pillages Incans only salt
@ Vilcas cavArmy d Rifle (3-0)
Mobilise

IT
Septum rax -> cav
Yakutsk worker -> worker
Treb & Brusa cavs
Ohrid LB (for mp) -> rax

2) 1310AD
@ Cori... dromons bombard, ACArmy d 2 3/4Rifles -> raze - get slave + cannon (5-0)
@ Vilcas cavArmy d Rifle, 2 conscripts + LB -> raze - get 6 slaves (9-0)
move other cavArmy to occupy choke fortress (d Rifle) (10-0)
mop up 4 rifles with cavs - 4th brings (I did have a screenie but currently unable to upload images ) well it was another leader named Another Nail In The Coffin -> another cav Army (14-0)
mop up another 6 rifles netting 4 slaves as well (20-0)

IT
2 rifles suicide on crusader promoting to elite and another loses to cav also promoting it to elite (23-0)
Con, Adri, Sardica all build cavs
Brusa warrior -> warrior (for mp duty)
Orenburg, New Adri and New Chalc all worker -> worker

3) 1315AD
Settle New Sanosata connecting roads in X-Incan core
Load cannons onto dromons as too slow by road

IT
Cuzco & New Iconium worker -> worker
Smyrna, Chalcedon & Taormina - cavs

4) 1320AD
Landing party outside Andah... (has Leo's)

IT
Heraclea, Nicaea & Varna - cavs
Samosata & Adrianopole cannon -> worker

5) 1325AD
@ Andah... cannons 7/20 -> only 2hp rifles left, cavArmy d 4 rifles, cav d LB -> capture (28-0)
mopping up cav d LB (29-0)
dromons re-pilage salt
upgrade a few dromons to galleys as units waiting to cross

IT
@ Andah... (I forgot they had cavs - hadnt seen any in a while ) cav d cav and we lose the city (29-1)
Steam Power -> Electricity (lone scientist - option of Replaceable Parts if we need arty)
Dyrrachium rax -> cav
Vlad harbour -> cav
Caesarea & Trebiz - cavs
Nicomedia & New Varna worker -> worker
New Caesarea & New Nicomedia LB -> worker

6) 1330AD
We have 2 sources of coal
@ Andah... cavArmy d 3 Rifles and cav -> recapture Leo's (33-1)
ACArmy d 2 rifle (35-1)
@ Ica cavArmy d 3 rifles -> raze (38-1)
cav d Rifle (39-1)
New Ari settled linking Machu Picchu & Andah... and allowing sea passage through choke
Switch to maximise tax

IT
eCav left in open loses to rifle (39-2)
Incan land 2MDI by Vilcabamba
Con and Chalcedon - cav
Moscow LB -> worker
New Prilep & New Vidin worker -> worker
Ohrid rax -> cav (all core now producing cavs)

7) 1335AD
upgrade 6 HM -> cavs
@ Inchon cavArmy at full 17/17 health taken to 2/17 but d Rifle, 2 cavs retreat, 2nd cavArmy takes last Rifle -> raze (41-2)
mopping up units, lose 3 cavs and retreat 3 defeating 15 Rifles, also 3LBs - get 2 promotions, no leaders (59-5)
Rifle d MDI at Vilcabamba (60-5)

IT
Incans attack successfully with rifles - we lose 2 cavs (and 4 slaves and cannon) a Rifle and another cav retreated (60-8)
Our rifle defends successfully against MDI at Vilcabamba -? promotes (61-8)

8) 1340AD
eCrusader redlined but d 1/4 Rifle (62-8)
cavArmies mop up 3 rifles (65-8)

IT
Yaraslavl, Smyrna & Prilep - cavs

9) 1345AD
@ Hyangson ACArmy d 2 Rifles and LB, cavArmy d 2 Rifles -> raze get 9 slaves and 3 cannon (70-8)

IT
Incan landing on former Vilcas site (settler / rifle / cav)
Con, Machu Pichu, Septum, Nicaea, Vilcabamba, Varna, Trebizond, Chalcedon all build cavs
Resistors quelled in Andah... -> riots -> hire some more taxmen
New Dyrrechium & New Ancyra - cannon

10) 1350AD
Time to heal up before next assault
Lose 3 cavs clearing rifle and cav from ex-Vilcas site - get 2 slaves ((72-11)

Rail link mostly complete down spine of main continent and not far away on Incan continent.
Many cavs fortified at Tambo... awaiting transport to Inca land



The Incan front : Pyongsang to the south has Sun Tsu's, Only cav Army with full health threatens Nampo with 4 or 5 cavs sitting under it

 

[markh]

Great progress, Andronicus. I think that puts me up.

 

[Andronicus]

Here's an attempt at roster
goz (skip / swap ) till weekend - ? on deck after markh)
markh - UP
SimpleMonkey
classical hero - on skip
Andronicus - just played

PS - I will be AWOL Fri -> Mon; I may not get to play another turn - certainly not before then

 

[SimpleMonkey]

Agree with roster unless markh gets through his set well before goz can take his, in which case I'll go and goz will take it after me. I suspect that the next few turnsets will finish this one. Great job, everyone!

 

[choxorn]

Here's an attempt at roster
goz (skip / swap ) till weekend - ? on deck after markh)
markh - UP
SimpleMonkey
classical hero - on skip
Andronicus - just played

Here's my attempt:
goz - skip/swap until weekend
Andronicus - Secured east inca continent and got steam
markh - UP!
SimpleMonkey - On deck
classical hero - on skip

Korea completes Newton's in Hattasus

Hattasus is the Hittite capital! I wondered who destroyed them.

 

[markh]

Guys, I need a swap as I was not able to finish tupac02 yesterday. I will finish it this evening, so I could get to this on Saturday at the earliest. I do not want to delay, so if goz or sm likes to take it, go for it !

 

[SimpleMonkey]

Hattasus is the Hittite capital! I wondered who destroyed them.

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that before. It appears that Korea may have been the ones to wipe out the Hittites, maybe as part of a dogpile, and then they were pretty much driven out of their native cities by the Inca. No matter. It's all rockpile city from here on out.

I noticed that markh was up in tupac02 and this one at the same time. How about if I take the next 10 and then either goz or markh, whoever's ready to play first?

I guess that that makes this a "got it."