Slaves, Hostages and Prisoners of War

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There's more than one capture mechanism:
1) When a unit is designating it's capture type it's possible to capture that unit and when it is it will be converted to the type designated in the xml. This works off of its own dynamic and the 'capture chance' we're talking about here does not currently work into this mechanism at all. I've been meaning to check but I think it may be that DH checks for this tag to be used on the unit and if it is, it's not valid for capturing according to the capture mechanism we've been discussing here.

2) There's a very specific mechanism in python for capturing naval and siege units. Again, this differs from the dynamic we're discussing. I believe it operates off the capture tag on the unit too though. I'm not so sure how these work entirely.

3) When units have 0 power AND a designated capture type, there's no chance - it's an automatic capture and conversion of that unit to the type designated.

4) Then there's the mechanism we're discussing that turns units into 'captives' of whatever type - Neanderthal, Military, Civilian etc... This dynamic is based on the percentage chance to capture and the capture resistance of the unit. It always produces types of captives as noted and does not work off the Captive tag on the victim unit at all.

If we make robots capturable under this mechanism, we'd be turning an artificial hunk of metal and programming into a person. Pinocchio would be jealous. If we have Catapults being both capturable under the siege and Captive mechanism that may be rational as we've caught not only the mechanism but the crew as well.

Otherwise units that operate on the other mechanisms are probably Not Applicable for use under this one so their chances of resisting capture or capturing are irrelevant. At some point I'll try to figure out how to best hide these compiled values on units where it doesn't make a difference and replace this display with a note stating how capturing does work for them (in brief like : When defeated may be captured.)

Next cycle I can take a look at all the capture mechanisms and see if perhaps we'd like to blend them all into a master version that takes all the different versions into account. Til then, proceed forth with this knowledge.

I'm sure DH could offer a lot more about the other captive mechanisms and about how he programmed this one specifically. My role in this was to make these new tags and build the ability for these new tags to compile and interact with his Captives mechanism. He then had to plug them into his formula.

I use the onCombatResult event. I don't think it is called/activated in the case of 3.

I also only consider land units. Sea units are handled by the War Prize mod.

The Captives mod only captures the three "Captive" type units. There is no check for capturing hardware along with the people.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Capturing robots and reprogramming them... interesting concept. Maybe best to restrict this to another mechanism entirely.

Back in the old days of RoM/AND I brought up having a "Hacker" unit, perhaps having a "Hacker" or altleast "Hacker" promotion on units could help increase the chance of capturing Robotic units (and maybe even Mechs too).

 

[Faustmouse]

Then we might need a Mech CC as well?

Also, is there a way to capture (or be able to) both, the Siege Weapon and the crew? I haven't really understand what you mean by "there is no check".

Also, how do you make a table here? I'd like to post our values so people can discuss them before I calculate at which values each unit will actually start.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Also, is there a way to capture (or be able to) both, the Siege Weapon and the crew? I haven't really understand what you mean by "there is no check".

No code. I haven't had my coffee yet this morning.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Then we might need a Mech CC as well?

We have one - AssaultMech.

Also, is there a way to capture (or be able to) both, the Siege Weapon and the crew? I haven't really understand what you mean by "there is no check".

@DH: Is there anything that you're using to filter out a check if a captured unit is already derived from the battle? Just curious why you wouldn't be able to do both already. Perhaps onCombatResult won't register if the siege weapon is already captured? Maybe the unit is already destroyed so can't be called for in your code when this takes place?

Also, how do you make a table here? I'd like to post our values so people can discuss them before I calculate at which values each unit will actually start.

Not 100% sure how it works but there's a calendar looking icon along the top of the post box (on the same line where you see B I U etc...) that's used for it. I believe I've copied cells from a document like that then surrounded what I copied by the [ TABLE ] [ /TABLE ] commands and had that work before but I can't recall for sure.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@DH: Is there anything that you're using to filter out a check if a captured unit is already derived from the battle? Just curious why you wouldn't be able to do both already. Perhaps onCombatResult won't register if the siege weapon is already captured? Maybe the unit is already destroyed so can't be called for in your code when this takes place?

I am almost certain that the onCombatResult is not activated if the unit has been captured due to the capture tag. I have never seen it called when missionaries or workers are captured. Probably there is no combat for a result. It is part of the magic that is the dll

 

[Thunderbrd]

I am almost certain that the onCombatResult is not activated if the unit has been captured due to the capture tag. I have never seen it called when missionaries or workers are captured. Probably there is no combat for a result. It is part of the magic that is the dll

Yeah, part of the complex weave of code in combat resolution I'm sure. I can see why it wouldn't with workers and other 0 str units but I'd have to really evaluate to see where onCombatResult isn't firing when the unit's already been captured in the example of a siege weapon. Ah well... would probably be imbalanced otherwise anyhow.

 

[Faustmouse]

Ok I give up, I can't make a table. I basically tried every symbol on my keyboard, but I can only make one column

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Ok I give up, I can't make a table. I basically tried every symbol on my keyboard, but I can only make one column

Find a table and quote that and go advanced to see how it is done.

 

[Faustmouse]

I tried yesterday and just couldn't fine one

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I tried yesterday and just couldn't fine one

look here

 

[Faustmouse]

Here are the stats for the CC's TB and I decided on:
If you think some things are really odd, please complain.
I'm going to make a plan this weekend for units and therefore I need this values FIXED. Will be very annoying to change them after that again and again...

For a nice table, see DH's post below. Please some feedback!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Some formatting and comments

CC | Capture Chance | Capture Resistance | Notes
Combatant (Military)|0|10
Civilian|20|-10
Criminal|-10| -10
Explorer|-30| -20
Swarm| -50| 50
Ruffian| 25| -10
Wild | -50| 0|Already has kill result which means handled on the unit
Subdued |-40| 0|Already has kill result which means handled on the unit
Tamed | -20| 0|Already has kill result which means handled on the unit
Ballistic| -30| -20
Melee |10| 0
Throwing| 5| -5
Archer| 0| -10
Siege| -20| -20
Gun| 10| 10
Hi Tech| 10| 10
Clones| 10| 50
StrikeTeam| 0| 30
Rocket Launcher| -20| -30
Mounted| 10| 20
Wheeled| 20| -20
Tracked| 20| -10
Dreadnought| 10| -5
Hovercraft| 20 -20|
Antigrav Craft| 20| -20
Balloon| -50| 0
Helicopter| -30| -10
Assault Mech| -40| 30
Robot| 0| 50
Nanite| -30| 70
Missile| -100| 100
Doom| -100| 100
Law Enforcement| 30| -10
Health Care | 10| -50
Entertainer| -50| -50
Diplomat| -50| -50
Trade | -50| -50
Combat Worker| -50| -50
Recon| -30| -20
Hunter| 20| 10
Hero| 10| 50
Defensive Siege| -20| 10
Gatecrasher Siege| -20| -20
Field Siege| -20| 0
Urban Siege| -20| 0
Wooden Siege| -20| 0
Gunpowder Siege| -20| -10
Rocketry Siege| -30| -20
Energy Siege| -30| 0
Mount on

Horse​

| 10| 10

Mule​

| 0| 0

Camel​

| 0| 10

Llama​

| 0| 0

Elephant​

| 0| 10

Giraffe​

| 0| 10

Bear​

| 0| 20

Deer​

| 0| 10

Bison​

| 0| 0

Rhino​

| 0| 10

Mammoth​

| 0| 20

Zebra​

| 0| 10

 

[Faustmouse]

This is witchcraft!!!
When I use the | symbol ist just don't show what is behind it. So a table with

CC| Mounted| 20|1
will just say: CC

Thank you very much!!!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There are three "capture" mechanisms

- capture tag on unit
- kill outcomes on unit
- rest which activates the onCombatResult Python event I use in the Capture Slaves mod

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

So Mounted Mules, Llamas and Bison have no Capture Resistance? That's seems wrong. Especially for the Bison. They should get at least 10.

 

[Faustmouse]

@Hydro: It's not true that they have no resistance. They are also Mounted, resulting in 20% resistance and also Combatants, which is again 10%. Some mounts have additional resitance because they are a) intimidating and/or b) they will run away with the (unconsicous) rider on them.

Edit: I don't know how fast Bisons, Lamas and Mules can actually run with a person sitting on it's back, but if you still think they deserve more resistance, just tell me.
The rest looks good to you?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

If you are running Slavery World View you get a +10% chance to capture on all units. This should probably be increased.

 

[Faustmouse]

Yes. We will come to buildings later. The general plan is:

1) CC's -> Waiting for general approval

2) Units -> Adjusting units will require "fixed" CC values since for example a Mounted Infantry will right now have a value based on: Mounted + Horse + Melee + Combatant. So when I want the Mounted Infantry to let's say start with 10% capture chance, I have to calculate it's base value now (which is 30% just from the CC's) and then give him a -20%.

3) Promotions -> Review Promotions to see which might get a bonus/malus for capturing (iE Berzerk will get a malus for capturing but bonus for resistance) and develope new Promotion Lines.

4) Buildings and Civics since they are the most global thing.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

If that building is not done firs you wont be getting any captives except from barbarians(+15%) and cities (+5%).