Small Observations General Thread (things not worth separate threads)

[AntSou]

It already has two chevrons, so it's probably mastery.

But then, what are the chevrons doing? Because the base strength is 25 and there's no mention of extra strength from tier in that panel.

Edit: I think the chevrons might just be the tier, but in a different sense: they are just a simplification that lets you tell at a sight the strength of the unit for that age, without having to memorise the icons for every civ.

In antiquity, for melee units:
1 Chevron -> Warrior
2 Chevrons -> Legion, Medjay

 

[AriochIV]

It already has two chevrons, so it's probably mastery.

But then, what are the chevrons doing? Because the base strength is 25 and there's no mention of extra strength from tier in that panel.

Assuming that I understand it correctly, the chevrons represent the unit's Tier. Some units like the Archer have a base Tier of 2 and no apparent upgrade, but some like the Medjay have a base Tier of 1 and can be upgraded to Tier 2 with a new tech.

My guess is that the Tier 1 Roman Warrior upgrades to the the Tier 2 Legion at Bronze Working. If so, there is no Tier 1 Legion.

 

[AntSou]

I just updated my previous comment.

Have any Tier one Legions be spotted? That would clarify it. But they might all be tier 2 by default.

Edit: am I saying what you are saying? Because I thought you originally meant a Legion will have a tier 1, then be capable of being upgraded to tier 2. But in your last comment you say Tier 1 warrior to tier 2 Legion, which is what I think as well.

 

[The Fanatical]

Tier three Medjay and ancient cavalry? Ancient cavalry starts as a tier two or a tier three unit?

 

[AriochIV]

If I understand it correctly, there's no such thing as a Tier 1 Legion.

Certain units are explicitly identified in their descriptions as being of a certain Tier. For example, Slingers are Tier 1 and Archers are Tier 2. There is no Tier 1 Archer. I'm assuming that Slingers can be upgraded into Archers, so I guess you could look at them as different tiers of the same unit... but they have different bonuses, so that's not quite correct.

The Medjay is an example of a unit that starts at Tier 1 and can be upgraded to Tier 2, but the Legion appears to start at Tier 2 and can presumably be upgraded to Tier 3 at Iron Working. So in this case it looks like you have:

Tier 1 Warrior -> Tier 2 Legion -> Tier 3 Legion.

My guess from the way it's worded is that each Age will have this Tier system. At the start of a new Age, your infantry will probably be upgraded to whatever the next Age tier 1 infantry is. etc. According to the recent interviews, this Age upgrade happens automatically. I don't know whether the tech upgrades happen automatically, but I'm guessing that they do, given the focus on reducing micromanagement.

 

[AriochIV]

Tier three Medjay and ancient cavalry? Ancient cavalry starts as a tier two or a tier three unit?

View attachment 703405 View attachment 703406

I'm guessing from the tree placement that Chariots are Tier 1 and regular cavalry are Tier 2 or 3, but I haven't seen direct descriptions of either unit that specifies starting tier.

It might go something like:

Tier 1 Chariot -> Tier 2 Chariot -> Tier 3 Cavalry

Or maybe Chariots start at Tier 2, since I don't see a tech for them to upgrade prior to Iron Working.

Or, there might be a distinction between light and heavy cavalry again. Though I'm guessing not.

 

[Ornen]

I don't know if this has been noticed but Swordmen units no longer have a bonus advantage over Spearmen units. This means they dropped the paper rock scissors combat system of Civilization 6 and I'm glad they did because seeing infantry that wielded long spears to be at a disadvantage against infantry with shorter swords felt weird and innaccurate.

Haha, this is another one of my pet peeves from Civ 6. I've never liked spears & pikes filling the role of 'mediocre infantry when you don't have resources', when they should be the backbone of your armies.

I'm also hoping the combat is a hair more realistic and less basic in general. A rifleman shouldn't be 'the same but more powerful' relative to a stone age warrior. Civ 6 has the worst unit variety of any Civ game in a long-time, and I'm hoping we see more meaningful differences between eras in this one. (fielding an antiquity army vs a medieval army vs a modern army should feel and act different) There's a lot of inspiration they could take from history to make combat more interesting.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't know if this has been noticed but Swordmen units no longer have a bonus advantage over Spearmen units. This means they dropped the paper rock scissors combat system of Civilization 6 and I'm glad they did because seeing infantry that wielded long spears to be at a disadvantage against infantry with shorter swords felt weird and innaccurate.

Have we actually seen any universal Swordsman units? Now that I think about I haven't, and maybe warriors now just upgrade into Spearman? I think there is no more distinction between cavalry either.
I say this because I don't think we've seen Iron Working tech that wasn't when they were playing as Rome.

 

[AriochIV]

Have we actually seen any universal Swordsman units? Now that I think about I haven't, and maybe warriors now just upgrade into Spearman? I think there is no more distinction between cavalry either.
I say this because I don't think we've seen Iron Working tech that wasn't when they were playing as Rome.

No, we've only seen Egypt and Rome techs, and both have a unique unit in that position.

My guess is that each Age just has a regular infantry unit with 3 tiers.

 

[The Fanatical]

I've seen only one sword unit, but there appears to be two spear units. The first spear unit is unlocked at Bronze Working and the second one at Iron Working. I'm curious to learn what is the purpose of the second unit?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

One of the devs explicitly says that the architectural style is different for each civ at 1:07:51

Around 1:09:46 they start talking about how even generic units may look different across different civs*

Spoiler ok :

*yes this was in Civ6 as well but was introduced later on, and instead of each civ having its own look they shared it with a bunch of other civs, so Korea and Mongolia looked the same as did Arabia and Persia; they also seemed to have forgotten about cultural variants for the Man-at-Arms and Line Infantry units which were also added later on

 

[AriochIV]

I've seen only one sword unit, but there appears to be two spear units. The first spear unit is unlocked at Bronze Working and the second one at Iron Working. I'm curious to learn what is the purpose of the second unit?

View attachment 703466View attachment 703467

It makes sense that there's a Tier 3 spearman upgrade at Iron Working, and it could be different unit rather than just an upgrade of the same spearman. Perhaps an ancient version of the pikeman (sarissa, I guess?). The icon looking like a Hoplite helmet is a little confusing, though.

I'm guessing the screenshot is from one of the earlier videos, and the unit UI is different... it doesn't have the Tier chevrons, and there is a dark border to highlight the health bar that isn't in the latest video.

Different civs will have different models for the same unit, but probably not different icons, so I think we can say that this is a different unit.

 

[Elhoim]

Gaining new unworkable tiles presumably has the same purpose as in previous iterations: to claim territory before your neighbors do.

From what I can see, you can't even culture bomb outside the 3 ring radius. Check the quarry, farm, etc, the border ends right there.

It's a pity they went again for such a density, especially now that cities are even bigger.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I've seen only one sword unit, but there appears to be two spear units. The first spear unit is unlocked at Bronze Working and the second one at Iron Working. I'm curious to learn what is the purpose of the second unit?

View attachment 703466View attachment 703467

It makes sense that there's a Tier 3 spearman upgrade at Iron Working, and it could be different unit rather than just an upgrade of the same spearman. Perhaps an ancient version of the pikeman (sarissa, I guess?). The icon looking like a Hoplite helmet is a little confusing, though.

I'm guessing the screenshot is from one of the earlier videos, and the unit UI is different... it doesn't have the Tier chevrons, and there is a dark border to highlight the health bar that isn't in the latest video.

Different civs will have different models for the same unit, but probably not different icons.

Technically, those figures aren't 'spearmen' - they are holding their weapons in both hands, which makes that weapon a Pike rather than a Spear.

A Pike first shows up in the historical record much earlier than most people realize: in the Vulture Stele from Sumer at around 2600 BCE, infantry are shown holding long pikes with both hands, with a second man holding a large shield covering them both. The pikes appear to have metal points, at this date possibly bronze. Apparently the two-man team was too cumbersome to work in battle, because it and the pikes disappear for the next 2200 years!

The pike, as the Sarissa, reappears in Phillip II's Pezhetairoi ("Foot Companions") of the Macedonian Army, kept by Alexander and his Successors until finally crushed by Rome's more flexible sword-wielding Legions. However, one Roman veteran said that the sight of a mass of pike points coming out of the dust clouds on the battlefield and all apparently aimed directly at him was the most terrifying thing he saw in 20 years in the Legions.

The unit on the right in the illustration is almost classic Macedonian - wearing the Phrygian helmet which was their favorite and carrying a small (smaller than the Hoplite's Aspis) round shield strapped to their left arm, leaving both hands free to use the Sarissa. The unit on the left appears to be a mix: some are wearing the Hoplite-like Corinthian enclosed helmet, which was long obsolete by the time Phillip formed his Pezhetairoi, but is probably the most recognizeable helmet in Greek history from all the Hoplites shown in the picture books.

Seeing these little variations in 'uniform' and equipment in mixed styles in some units makes me wonder if Civ VII doesn't finally have a Mercenary system to 'buy' units from other Non-Playable groups in the game. Just speculation at this point, but this is not the first time we've seen the same weapon carried by units that show minor differences in the rest of their appearance.

 

[pokiehl]

From what I can see, you can't even culture bomb outside the 3 ring radius. Check the quarry, farm, etc, the border ends right there.

It's a pity they went again for such a density, especially now that cities are even bigger.

And also because you’ll now reach that last ring faster than ever since you’re culture bombing tiles nonstop. With all that in mind, I’m really perplexed as to how we’re still stuck with this tiny 3-tile radius.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't mind having the same limit, but it's a bit disappointing how quickly you can seemingly max out your 3 rings around a city.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

And also because you’ll now reach that last ring faster than ever since you’re culture bombing tiles nonstop. With all that in mind, I’m really perplexed as to how we’re still stuck with this tiny 3-tile radius.

Just the opposite: I think a 3-tile radius is a compromise between giving you enough space to support the in-game City, and keeping you from building a 21st century sprawling Megalopolis 5000 years early.

Don't know for certain yet, but I would not be surprised to see that radius change with each succeeding Age, so that your Exploration and Modern cities can take up far more terrain than your Antiquity cities.

Antiquity (Classical) Athens' urban area covered a square mile or so: modern Athens extends clear across the Attic Peninsula to Marathon, 26 plus miles away, and has a larger population than all of mainland Greece in the Classical Age. The game should (I hope!) show a similar progression.

 

[pokiehl]

Don't know for certain yet, but I would not be surprised to see that radius change with each succeeding Age, so that your Exploration and Modern cities can take up far more terrain than your Antiquity cities.

I guess that could be true but they talked about the radius pretty definitively in the stream. I do think that’d be a cool mechanic though…increase the radius with each age.

I won’t hold my breath but it’s a good idea.

 

[Trengilly]

One of the devs explicitly says that the architectural style is different for each civ at 1:07:51

Around 1:09:46 they start talking about how even generic units may look different across different civs*

Spoiler ok :

*yes this was in Civ6 as well but was introduced later on, and instead of each civ having its own look they shared it with a bunch of other civs, so Korea and Mongolia looked the same as did Arabia and Persia; they also seemed to have forgotten about cultural variants for the Man-at-Arms and Line Infantry units which were also added later on

They say each Civ has a unique architectural style . . . but if you look at the Greece and Rome game guides on their site, both have the exact same buildings (other than unique ones). So I'm not sure if he just misspoke and we will still have 'regional' art styles. Or if they really will all be unique and they just haven't finished and implemented them yet.

 

[Evolena]

I just noticed that when the new capital Rouen is shown (1h37'10, previously Puteoli), there is a sort of Whale resource next to the Horse that was not there in the Antiquity age (eg. 1h17'53).