So has Firaxis given up on BE?

[Gorbles]

Of all the games, you'd think that Starships was least like a "mod".

 

[glov0044]

There are doing something with BE. There are almost daily changes to dev depots in SteamDB. I'm hoping that means they are extensively playtesting the latest patch.

But they could also be working on minor bugs, or moving things around to give me false hope.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Of all the games, you'd think that Starships was least like a "mod".

Haven't you heard? If it has hexes then it's a mod. That's the only criteria. Also it would be very possible to mod civ 5 to open up a second map to engage in combat on. No sweat.

 

[heat]

From reading various game forums, I have come to the conclusion that every single game ever made is dead and has been for at least several years.

Ding! Ding! Winner!!

 

[Nurgle84]

Steam just loaded a 12.8 MB patch, but I cannot find a text what it changed (can´t be much)

 

[Sherlock]

Ding! Ding! Winner!!

With apologies to George Orwell:


'All games are dead, but some games are deader than others'.

 

[Ryika]

I really hate this social engineering stuff. If other games want to be as dead as Beyond Earth, then those games should work on getting rid of their players instead of demanding free 'dead' status just for existing.

 

[Halbbruder]

It would definitely be a big disaster for firaxis is this Starships game also has mixed reviews. With BE, before release, everyone was hyped up about the game and they had the option to see it being played through livestreams such as Maddjin's before release. I also looked at the game via those livestreams and I mostly liked what I saw and I spotted a few problems that might make the game irritating, like trade routes, level 1 purity and the transcendence victory. I assumed that Firaxis would sort it out then but I was wrong. Then customers of civbe get the game and suddenly about 50% of players (using steam store) hate it. I mean, why wasn't this hate around before release?

 

[Gort]

It would definitely be a big disaster for firaxis is this Starships game also has mixed reviews. With BE, before release, everyone was hyped up about the game and they had the option to see it being played through livestreams such as Maddjin's before release. I also looked at the game via those livestreams and I mostly liked what I saw and I spotted a few problems that might make the game irritating, like trade routes, level 1 purity and the transcendence victory. I assumed that Firaxis would sort it out then but I was wrong. Then customers of civbe get the game and suddenly about 50% of players (using steam store) hate it. I mean, why wasn't this hate around before release?

Because we assumed Firaxis would sort it out but then we were wrong? There are also all the other problems that they either haven't fixed or have made worse with their post-release patch, which took ages to arrive.

 

[Kutuzov]

I assumed that Firaxis would sort it out then but I was wrong.

I sincerely hope that the majority of people who made this assumption will be more careful when considering their purchases in the future, not just from Firaxis but from any game designer. If you were unhappy with Civ V and Civ BE on release, it's safe to say that you will find Civ VI will be equally horrible on release so start mentally preparing yourself to have to wait until the first expansion comes along.

Trouble is, people won't wait though. Some folks will want to be 'in on the game' at the outset because they've been with the franchise for a while now and will feel left out and frustrated if they have to wait. And so, they'll buy early, get disappointed AGAIN, and lay the blame on Firaxis and get angry with the beta testers and with people who post on the forums who enjoy the game.

 

[NASAROG]

I sincerely hope that the majority of people who made this assumption will be more careful when considering their purchases in the future, not just from Firaxis but from any game designer. If you were unhappy with Civ V and Civ BE on release, it's safe to say that you will find Civ VI will be equally horrible on release so start mentally preparing yourself to have to wait until the first expansion comes along.

Exactly. User beware. If you do buy, don't go on raving about quality. You have a big enough sample size now to get the general idea about the state of most PC games at release.

 

[Sherlock]

Exactly. User beware. If you do buy, don't go on raving about quality. You have a big enough sample size now to get the general idea about the state of most PC games at release.

The problem is the expectation (usually, but not always justified) that a 'weak on release' game will be updated with patches, dlc, expansion packs that will fix the problems with the core mechanics.

When the company doesn't do that and just moves on to new titles, that's a game changer. So yes, this is something new we're seeing with BE.

 

[Kutuzov]

The problem is the expectation (usually, but not always justified) that a 'weak on release' game will be updated with patches, dlc, expansion packs that will fix the problems with the core mechanics.

When the company doesn't do that and just moves on to new titles, that's a game changer. So yes, this is something new we're seeing with BE.

(My highlight in bold) Would you care to share your reasoning with us for your certainty that Firaxis have moved on from Civ BE? To the best of my knowledge, they haven't finished with it and there's no clear evidence to support any statements either for or against Firaxis continuing support.

 

[Dale H]

(My highlight in bold) Would you care to share your reasoning with us for your certainty that Firaxis have moved on from Civ BE? To the best of my knowledge, they haven't finished with it and there's no clear evidence to support any statements either for or against Firaxis continuing support.

Don't need reasoning, just experience. BE is exceptionally flawed, almost mortally so. If this were a Code Blue it would be time to 'call it'. The hype before its release was unprecedented and accomplished its purpose of racheting up the pre order frenzy. For those of us who purchased it without waiting it is easy to feel like we have been victimized. And rightfully so.

Firaxis has probaby walked away from BE because it makes business sense to cut their losses at some point and go on to new projects. Maybe they will breathe new life into BE at some future time but I am not betting on it.

However, I have NO REGRETS. BE is the first disappointment I have had from Firaxis. Caveat emptor. I have the disposable income (we gamers all do or we wouldn't be gaming) and I have enough experience to know that you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince. I consider it an investment for game development. It is no big deal. It is just a game. I cannot tell you how much enjoyment I have had from the Civ series. I am a happy gamer. I will always be grateful for what they have made and the fun provided, BE notwithstanding.

If I am still kicking when they announce Civ6 I'll bet you'll find my name on the preorder list.

Just sayin' ...

 

[Sherlock]

Don't need reasoning, just experience. BE is exceptionally flawed, almost mortally so. If this were a Code Blue it would be time to 'call it'. The hype before its release was unprecedented and accomplished its purpose of racheting up the pre order frenzy. For those of us who purchased it without waiting it is easy to feel like we have been victimized. And rightfully so.

Firaxis has probaby walked away from BE because it makes business sense to cut their losses at some point and go on to new projects. Maybe they will breathe new life into BE at some future time but I am not betting on it.

However, I have NO REGRETS. BE is the first disappointment I have had from Firaxis. Caveat emptor. I have the disposable income (we gamers all do or we wouldn't be gaming) and I have enough experience to know that you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince. I consider it an investment for game development. It is no big deal. It is just a game. I cannot tell you how much enjoyment I have had from the Civ series. I am a happy gamer. I will always be grateful for what they have made and the fun provided, BE notwithstanding.

If I am still kicking when they announce Civ6 I'll bet you'll find my name on the preorder list.

Just sayin' ...

Lots of good points. But I'm afraid them still getting large pre-orders will just reward this 'push it out before it's done' behavior. So I won't pre-order anything from Firaxis again. If lots of people do the same maybe they won't be so cocky with future releases. Hey, you can hope.

 

[Kutuzov]

Don't need reasoning, just experience.

Firaxis have an established record of releasing games in a poor condition and working to improve them after release through patches and expansions so that they end up pretty much the top games of the genre. Civ V was horrible on release for a lot of people. Take a look at some of the reviews on Metacritic from the early days and you'll see the same insecurity spouted there, that it is a cynical cash-grab, that Firaxis won't support this horribly broken game, etc. Nothing new in any of this negativity.

I know some folks are pointing to Civ:Col to 'prove' that Firaxis haven't supported all of their games and while there are similarities between the two games, i.e. spin-offs from the full game, we can also say that Civ:Col didn't get a spin-off game all of it's own like we're seeing with Starships.

BE is exceptionally flawed, almost mortally so.

No, it is not. It is certainly far from perfect and fell short of quite a few folks' expectations but that's an over-exaggeration. But admittedly one that will earn you lots of support from the majority of posters on this board

For those of us who purchased it without waiting it is easy to feel like we have been victimized. And rightfully so

.

I pre-ordered and I don't feel victimized. I'm happy with my purchase. And it was their decision to pre-order despite the public disaster that was the release of Civ V. If they are victims of anything, and I'm certainly not stating that they are, they are victims of their own impetuosity. May they learn from their mistakes in the future.

Further, there was plenty of warning here not to pre-order for those who are helpless to resist the hype:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=529835

Firaxis has probaby walked away from BE because it makes business sense to cut their losses at some point and go on to new projects. Maybe they will breathe new life into BE at some future time but I am not betting on it.

I've highlighted two parts of this sentence for discussion. For the highlight in RED, it would appear that you, too are uncertain that Firaxis won't continue to support Civ BE. In which case, why are you answering my question to Sherlock about his apparent certainty that they will not? It would appear that you agree with me

And the highlight in Green, could you please provide figures to support your assertion that Firaxis are losing money on Civ BE?

I don't expect Firaxis to make any announcements about the future of Civ BE until after the release of Starships. Until that game is released, all we can do is agree and disagree with each other. Time will reveal all.

 

[Kutuzov]

Lots of good points. But I'm afraid them still getting large pre-orders will just reward this 'push it out before it's done' behavior. So I won't pre-order anything from Firaxis again. If lots of people do the same maybe they won't be so cocky with future releases. Hey, you can hope.

I am inclined to agree with some of your post, namely that people really should be more aware of their own natures and avoid disappointment in the future. The fact that there was a downloadable demo on release should really have been enough for folks who avoided the pre-order to avoid being disappointed by Civ BE on release, never mind the outraged posts that appeared almost instantly on these boards and on Steam. Happily, were seeing more people posting that they will not be 'tricked/fooled'/impetuous in the future.

However, I disagree with the 'push it out before it's done' behavior part of your post. It seems to me that strategy games of this ilk require a massive amount of time to produce and it is not possible to release them 'feature-complete' as in having all the systems so beloved of the previous title. For example, Civ V vanilla didn't have religion or espionage but had them added in an expansion.

This is by no means unique to the Civ franchise either. Look at the winner of the best game of the year last year, Endless Legend. It has no naval game to speak of. No doubt it will come along in an expansion at some point in the next few months. Fans are ready and willing to shell out for that expansion.

I don't view this as exploitation of the fan base at all. Games designers have a limited amount of time and a budget to produce a working game. Since Civ BE, like other 4x games on release, had some bugs and features that were not WAD, balanced, etc, I would hazard a guess that they didn't really have enough time to get the features they DID put in properly working. It is easier for the unhappy to throw around accusations of incompetence though and is certainly more cathartic but that doesn't necessarily make these accusations true.

We all hope that Firaxis will allocate more time and money to their releases in the future. If all you guys who are so deeply unhappy all stop pre-ordering or purchasing the titles until the release problems are ironed out, we will all benefit. And I understand that YOU have never bought Civ BE

 

[Ryika]

However, I disagree with the 'push it out before it's done' behavior part of your post. It seems to me that strategy games of this ilk require a massive amount of time to produce and it is not possible to release them 'feature-complete' as in having all the systems so beloved of the previous title. For example, Civ V vanilla didn't have religion or espionage but had them added in an expansion.

There are games that have a ton more features and systems on Release than even BNW had, I don't think being "feature-complete" is a faith that is inevitable. However, I too agree that they probably didn't intend on releasing the project the way it was released.

Looking at the xml-files alone there are a ton of code-segments that hint at them working on elements that didn't make it into the game - to me it seems like they made the rather crucial mistake of not fully planning ahead, which then led to them having to change and ultimately cut a lot of stuff mid-production.

But whatever led to them publishing the game in the state it was (and to a lesser extend still is), that's definitely something they should fix. Because as much as I personally enjoy playing the game... this is not the quality people should be able to expect.

 

[Kutuzov]

to me it seems like they made the rather crucial mistake of not fully planning ahead, which then led to them having to change and ultimately cut a lot of stuff mid-production.

I've used to be a beta tester for a game designer for a number of years and it's par for the course that features they really wanted to get in get dropped mid-production because it will not be possible to implement them properly within the time span allowed by their budget. It's not incompetence, it's just what happens when optimistic and enthusiastic planning meets reality. Game designers seem to love designing games and I can forgive their enthusiasm. Like Firaxis, the game developer I tested for kept most of their initial plans secret from the outer boards to avoid disappointing anyone when they dropped some of them. I doubt all game designers operate like this but perhaps a few do.

But whatever led to them publishing the game in the state it was (and to a lesser extend still is), that's definitely something they should fix

The whole point of this thread is to enquire whether Firaxis are finished with Civ BE or not. Nobody is saying that they shouldn't fix their game.

 

[Ryika]

The whole point of this thread is to enquire whether Firaxis are finished with Civ BE or not. Nobody is saying that they shouldn't fix their game.

I didn't mean they should fix the game, I meant that they should fix the structures that led to this release.