So...is it worth trying to watch the Game of Thrones series?

[woody60707]

...How "empowered" is any woman when her brother is raping her on her son's funeral bier?

To just call that scene rape, and end it there, would be incomplete.

 

[Goodfella]

It also has:

a.) more characters (empowered or otherwise) than any other show I can readily think of.

Unless you only watch 90s sitcoms there's no way that's true.

b.) more rape than any other show I can think of. Much of which happens to the characters you've called out as "empowered."

How "empowered" is any woman when her brother is raping her on her son's funeral bier?

You can't possibly think depicting rape would make a show misogynistic. Was the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo misogynistic?

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

.....

 

[BvBPL]

You can't possibly think depicting rape would make a show misogynistic.

I do not, and that is not at all what I said.

It is the gratuitous and cavalier display of sexual violence in GoT that is distasteful

 

[Gucumatz]

There are arguably a lot of "cavalier" displays of gratuitous "name your pick [sex, violence, monologues, etc.]" that you could argue distasteful. Just because something is distasteful, doesn't mean it doesn't move the plot.

 

[BvBPL]

It seems unlikely as many people would be as sensitive to gratuitous, unnecessary monologues as are sensitive to gratuitous, unnecessary sexual violence. Unless I missed the groundswell of opposition to Spaulding Gray. Take Back the Mic would not be as meaningful a social movement as Take Back the Night.

Nor can the claim that the sexual violence moves the plot be used as a blanket justification for the more blatant instances. GoT has certainly had unnecessary portrayals of grotesque sexual violence that did nothing to move the plot of the show.

 

[Zack]

Not everything serves to move the plot. Character development and worldbuilding are important.

 

[Goodfella]

I do not, and that is not at all what I said.

It is the gratuitous and cavalier display of sexual violence in GoT that is distasteful

I wouldn't argue that the show has excessive violence and gore (not that I'll stop watching it). Theon was castrated, Arya killed a boy her age, two kids were burned and hung, Daenerys ate a stallion heart, Khal shoved Visery's face into a fire pit, The Hound beheaded his own horse, and so on. I just fail to see how in the attempt to depict a living hell, it's misogynistic to depict a female character being raped. And besides quarreling with the number of characters, you really can't deny this show offers a far more powerful female cast than nearly any other show. (Don't tell me that's part of the misogynistic fantasy because pretty much only one of these characters satisfies that purpose.)

 

[Kyriakos]

I would recommend GOT Kyriakos.
To say GOT is merely a "gorefest" is a grotesque mischaracterisation. Sure, there is a lot of violence in the series but it adds quality to the overall spectacle. There is no violence just for the sake of violence. It is appropriate.

On the other hand, I am not sure Kyriakos will like it. From his posts and the type of threads he makes, he portrays himself as a man of high culture and philosophy. By saying he likes such a mainstream successfull programme, than surely he is tarnishing that image of himself? From writing his short stories in high brow Greek quarterlies to watching television? Never!

Indeed. Which is why i probably won't watch it. Got to maintain an austere image for the public



Well, from the few videos i did watch of the show, it does seem to be mostly about sensational moments which are pretty linear (Ned Stark's beheading and why it happened, or Joffrey's 1d character, which is rather boring in my view).

It does look good cinematically (well, far better than most tv series). I am not sure about the Dragon part, cause i have watched very few sequences of that.

The book series is very popular in this country as well. I am sure i would not like it, way too far away from anything i read or write.

 

[Yeekim]

I don't intend to read the books either.

This might be one the poorest decisions you've ever made.
One does not simply gather the kind of universal acclaim GRRM has, if his books aren't excellent.

The show is also definitely worth watching, but the books are way better - as per usual.

I am sure i would not like it, way too far away from anything i read or write.

If I wanted to make an evil comment, this would be a perfect occasion.
I'll refrain and just ask that you give it a try.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire#Critical_response

 

[Kyriakos]

One does not simply kill that Stark actor in every role of his

 

[Mise]

BvBPL, I think that to demonstrate that the show is misogynistic, you would have to prove that it is attempting to titillate the audience or glorify sexual violence, rather than merely depicting a character who is misogynistic. There are misogynistic humans, rapists, murders, etc etc in real life, and depicting those things in a work of art is merely reflecting reality. However, glorifying those things in art or anywhere else is another thing entirely, and would be wrong.

 

[Grisu]

I do not, and that is not at all what I said.

It is the gratuitous and cavalier display of sexual violence in GoT that is distasteful

why is display of sexual violence more distateful than 'regular' violence?

BvBPL, I think that to demonstrate that the show is misogynistic, you would have to prove that it is attempting to titillate the audience or glorify sexual violence, rather than merely depicting a character who is misogynistic. There are misogynistic humans, rapists, murders, etc etc in real life, and depicting those things in a work of art is merely reflecting reality. However, glorifying those things in art or anywhere else is another thing entirely, and would be wrong.

Pretty much this. What the show is depicting is a harsh and pretty cruel world, where especially women often get the short end, pretty much like in our own history not so long ago. I don't see how Got is glorifying this in any way.

 

[Quackers]

BvPL, there is plenty of harmless, inoffensive childrens television to watch as an alternative....

 

[Darkflight]

The fact that anyone can enjoy watching Game of Thrones is a testament to what a messed up species we are. It's the kind of production that should cause severe pshycological damage to any reasonable person that watches it. Instead it is "universally acclaimed" because people are addicted to the cheap shock value of obscene brutality that is the shows sole selling point.

 

[Kyriakos]

^But your avatar is a human-eating alien beast

 

[Yeekim]

The fact that anyone can enjoy watching Game of Thrones is a testament to what a messed up species we are. It's the kind of production that should cause severe pshycological damage to any reasonable person that watches it. Instead it is "universally acclaimed" because people are addicted to the cheap shock value of obscene brutality that is the shows sole selling point.

Says the guy with an avatar of... Alien?
EDIT: Nah, beaten to it.

To say that "cheap shock value of obscene brutality" is the show's sole selling point is just ignorant and borderline offensive to a fan such as myself. The show is great despite the fact that producers have on occasion overdone certain scenes. Not because of it.

 

[Darkflight]

Human vs. human violence is a VERY different thing from animal vs. human violence.

 

[Yeekim]

Human vs. human violence is a VERY different thing from animal vs. human violence.

Indeed. The latter (such as chest-bursting aliens) supposedly lacking in brutality and cheap shock value, depicting complex, character-driven relationships instead?

 

[aelf]

Human vs. human violence is a VERY different thing from animal vs. human violence.

I find this distinction to be inane. If you're watching a nature documentary, you might have a point. But you're talking about fiction written by human beings. If A Song of Ice and Fire is written such that animal characters serve as substitutes for human characters, it would not change the meanings in the story very much. It is very possible to see some beast on screen as a metaphor for something quite human. That's not even getting into the intent of the producers, who similarly intend to depict gore and violence against human beings for entertainment, whatever the chosen agent of violence might be.