So, why Pyramids.

[Pangaea]

I love to get the Mids and run Representation, from as early as possible to the end. Those extra 3 per specialist really adds up, and in the early game the extra is great when you struggle with happy cap. You don't have to make the detour to get HR either.

The GLib is a great wonder too, and you get free GPP. But the Mids is like getting a pile of free specialists due to all those extra beakers.

I rarely go for the Oracle because it feels like such a detour from more important techs, and the AIs tend to build it fairly soon. It can be very strong, but I just feel it's more important to get the techs in the line above.

 

[ben-jammin]

Police state is incredibly powerful as well...it makes the mids great well after representation can no longer keep you in the tech race. It took me a while to stop focusing only on rep with the mids. It's a wonder that has obvious synergy with philosophical and spritual traits.

 

[Pengu]

Well ;ids is a very nice wonder, and up until emporer I got it many times, no matter what. But the wonder also never went before 1000 BC. on Immortal I quickly forgot about the mids unless I have stone or maybe has a Ind leader. When the wonder start going around 13-1500 BC, the investment isn't worth it if you loose it.

 

[duckstab]

I actually consider the Pyramids to be pretty powerful; I almost always use them for Representation.

However, they're also really expensive. In order to beat the AI to it you often end up foregoing early expansion, which can be a serious miscalculation.

I find that I rarely build them except via slingshot: Oracle->Metal Casting->Forge->Great Engineer->Pyramids. That's usually only worthwhile with an Industrious leader and Marble for speeding up the Oracle.

Big caveat: I play on Noble, the preceding may not be viable on higher levels.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Chichen Itza is utterly useless.

The only reason why to build it is to deny it for the AI. Sitting Bull's longbows can be hell of a lot harder to deal with when he has CI than when he hasn't.

 

[Windsor]

The only reason why to build it is to deny it for the AI. Sitting Bull's longbows can be hell of a lot harder to deal with when he has CI than when he hasn't.

You never need to take out Sitting Bull. He is a painfully bad AI. Can't expand, can't tech and no aggression at all. And even if you want to take him out, rifles easily kills his super-longbows.

The only reason you build the CI is

a) You can (so far ahead, why not just build 'em all?)
b) You wanted to get some failgold, but failed to take it off the queue.

 

[ben-jammin]

You never need to take out Sitting Bull. He is a painfully bad AI. Can't expand, can't tech and no aggression at all. And even if you want to take him out, rifles easily kills his super-longbows.

The only reason you build the CI is

a) You can (so far ahead, why not just build 'em all?)
b) You wanted to get some failgold, but failed to take it off the queue.

that's the worst, automatic re-load for me.

 

[WelshGandalf]

I did that with the Sistine Chapel in the recent Charlie game. I set it off in a city where it would take 50-60 turns to build.... and then was really surprised when I found I had built it. What were the other AI doing - I thought it was a really popular AI wonder...

 

[vranasm]

I did that with the Sistine Chapel in the recent Charlie game. I set it off in a city where it would take 50-60 turns to build.... and then was really surprised when I found I had built it. What were the other AI doing - I thought it was a really popular AI wonder...

ususally works the other way...if the AI somehow manages to build it...he probably will go culture... not that he wants culture so he builds sistine...

 

[Ringo Kid]

Wow, thanks for all the responses. Interesting stuff. I have never tried that strategy. Which leader has the best traits to exploit the Pyramids/Representation to the fullest. Lincoln? Elizabeth? DeGaulle?

 

[Windsor]

Gandhi

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Wow, thanks for all the responses. Interesting stuff. I have never tried that strategy. Which leader has the best traits to exploit the Pyramids/Representation to the fullest. Lincoln? Elizabeth? DeGaulle?

Rameseseseseses. IND, can swap civics at will (allowing odd PS swap timings but also caste/slavery timings), and has a great rush unit that might let you pull off double duty.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Wow, thanks for all the responses. Interesting stuff. I have never tried that strategy. Which leader has the best traits to exploit the Pyramids/Representation to the fullest. Lincoln? Elizabeth? DeGaulle?

On Earth18 map, it's Elizabeth. Just won a game on Prince difficulty where I built Mids in London, adopted Representation, assigned scientists in 4 cities and as a result I was able to start whipping cuirassiers in 600 AD.

 

[Ringo Kid]

On Earth18 map, it's Elizabeth. Just won a game on Prince difficulty where I built Mids in London, adopted Representation, assigned scientists in 4 cities and as a result I was able to start whipping cuirassiers in 600 AD.

I tried a game as Elizabeth on noble, and the tech advantage got ridiculous, tanks vs longbows. I ended up the game with a diplomatic victory.

 

[Ringo Kid]

Rameseseseseses. IND, can swap civics at will (allowing odd PS swap timings but also caste/slavery timings), and has a great rush unit that might let you pull off double duty.

I started a game as Rameses , built the Pyramids and Great Wall. Stone, but no horses.

I do have Ivory, so gonna tech to War Elephants & Catapults and conquer some neighbors.

Do you run specialists in every city, or just the few with the most food? Or What?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Where you run them is situational. Generally you still want some good cities and at least one dedicated for or otherwise a source of .

 

[ben-jammin]

I started a game as Rameses , built the Pyramids and Great Wall. Stone, but no horses.

I do have Ivory, so gonna tech to War Elephants & Catapults and conquer some neighbors.

Do you run specialists in every city, or just the few with the most food? Or What?

In cities that will not be able to produce a GP you would want to run a specialist whenever it gives you a better yield than working a tile while maintaining population. If you have a city with such a big excess of food, you'll want to work high food tiles until you are about to grow past your happy cap, then run specialists while starving down to within 1 turn of losing a citizen. You especially wan to have negative food during golden ages (in a city that can actually produce a GP) when your GPP are doubled.

A city can't produce a GPP if other cities are producing points at a higher rate such that one of them will always produce a great person first.

If you have unlocked representation with the pyramids you're not going to want to cottage anything other than your capital (for the eventual 50% boost from bureaucracy). This is sometimes the case even without the pyramids.

 

[ben-jammin]

For the 'specialist' economy to win you a game, you need to either win it with cuirs or at the latest cavalry, or do as TMIT points out and still set yourself up to keep up once you've gotten yourself as many cities as you can up to that point. Once tech are up in the 3000+ beaker range, running rep specialists will not keep up to an immortal or deity AIs tech pace into the industrial era.

Rep specialist focus is very good for a culture win, terrible for a space win, good for a renaissance or gunpowder military breakout/victory, but won't get you further than that.

 

[cseanny]

Difficulty level, victory condition, and victory date need to be involved in the discussion too. Noble, Prince, and sometimes even Monarchy we see where the AI doesn't research Monarchy until quite late. In cases like these getting Monarchy from trade doesn't work well.....so, if we have very little happiness resources the Mids becomes more attractive in my eyes.

Sure, PS is very strong but in lower levels you can simply be conquering your way into a lot of cities while slowly building the MIDS or using a conquered city with lots of forest to mass chop them in a few turns. This in turn allows you to quickly grow all cities to max population and then in the early ADs run mass scientist to quickly research/bulb your target techs. In games like these I usually just use a good Bureau Capital and then specialist/GP everywhere else.

On the flip side, on higher levels the Mids work great when you get boxed in and give you a lot of options via growth, research, and production.

 

[Pangaea]

A city can't produce a GPP if other cities are producing points at a higher rate such that one of them will always produce a great person first.

If you have unlocked representation with the pyramids you're not going to want to cottage anything other than your capital (for the eventual 50% boost from bureaucracy). This is sometimes the case even without the pyramids.

Isn't this slightly wrong? The city that produces the GP will get its "counter" reset, but the city that missed out on a GP will still keep its counter and keep going. So even if this city produces less GPP/turn, it can still produce a GreatPerson - as long as the (presumably) GPFarm doesn't wildly outpace it in Great People Points a turn.