Some great Europeans who were black

[Verbose]

I actually wanted to post something in the thread about Beethoven's blackness, or not... But the moderator intervened.

I have no idea if old Ludwig van had some African ancestry or not. I wouldn't rule it out, though I assume it would have to be an African grandparent or possibly parent.

The reason:
There are at least two figures in European litterature who had a black grandparent.

Count Alexander Pushkin, the father or modern Russian poetry. His maternal grandfather was from Africa. Pushkin even wrote a story about him and seems to have been proud of the fact. And face it, he could afford it, since no matter what HE was still Count Pushkin, damn your eyes!

The other is Alexandre Dumas, Sr., you know, the inventor of The Three Musketeers.
He had a black grandmother and actually did take som flack occasionally for being a "mulatto". He sometimes reffered to himself jokingly in letters to friends as a "useless mulatto".
And he did write an early novel in his youth with a black protagonist (Edward). Of course, the whole story was an exercise in showing that this characters qualities had absolutely nothing to do with pigmentation.

So, there are at least two well respected figures of litterature (well, one at least ) with good credentials showing us that they had part African ancestry. There must have been nore of them around, especially in places like Portugal, Spain and Italy.

 

[mrtn]

...(well, one at least ) ...

Yeah, I like Dumas.

 

[LouLong]

Dumas, indeed !
He was actually very mixed (grandfather at least) and from the West Indies and not directly from Africa.
But in these times of political correctness he was proclaimed black when entering the Pnatheon this year (r end of last year).
As much as I like him he is not up to the level of a white African such as Tolkien though

 

[luiz]

I too wanted to post on the Ludwig van's thread.

So, just to close this issue, I would like to point out that Beethoven is of Flemish origin(hence the "van" and not "von"), and there is NO credible evidence at ALL about some african origin.

 

[MCdread]

There must have been nore of them around, especially in places like Portugal, Spain and Italy.

I'm not sure I can remember any famous portuguese person that had trackable african ancestry, but it is estimated that in the XVI century 10% of the population of Lisbon were blacks. By the XVIII century, there were none. They mixed with the native population, until the evident signs of african origin were disappeared. So, it is quite certain that a lot of the present population has an african ancestor, at least 500 years old.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Did you know that Hitler was actually black? See for yourself...



Moderator Action: Warned for threadjacking. The Humor forum is somewhat down the street. - XIII
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[amadeus]

Shiela Jackson Lee?

 

[MaisseArsouye]

Yannick Noah

 

[Squonk]

I think I've heard about Puszkin.

That He was partially black, that is.

 

[Verbose]

I'm not sure I can remember any famous portuguese person that had trackable african ancestry, but it is estimated that in the XVI century 10% of the population of Lisbon were blacks. By the XVIII century, there were none. They mixed with the native population, until the evident signs of african origin were disappeared. So, it is quite certain that a lot of the present population has an african ancestor, at least 500 years old.

That seems likely. One surprise I've had, is finding a heap of Portugese love poetry from the 16th c. directed at black/African women being courted by Portugese poets.

 

[Stapel]

Ruud Gullit of course!

 

[Pangur Bán]

Doesn't black mean black, and not "maybe, just possibly, 1/16th black"?

 

[Marla_Singer]

Lilian Thuram of course !

He deserves to be a Great Leader for France in Civ3 after his fantastic two goals at the World Cup 98 half-final !

 

[Richard Cribb]

Lilian Thuram of course !

He deserves to be a Great Leader for France in Civ3 after his fantastic two goals at the World Cup 98 half-final !

I am an old man and I prefer Marius Tresor and Jean Tigana. Especially since my first wife left me about a week after the 1998 final...
Here is a link to a rather famous 18th century violinist and composer whose mother was a black slave, Joseph de Bologne, the Chevalier de Saint-George. His biography is quite interesting and his music wasn't so bad either...http://chevalierdesaintgeorges.homestead.com/Page1.html

 

[samildanach]

Forget those French guys. Heres a real football player-

Andrew Watson

First black International football player


Born in 1857 in British Guiana, Andrew Watson came to Glasgow University to acquire a bachelor of arts degree. By the time Watson came to University, aged 19, in November 1875, he had already played football for Scotland's leading team, Queens Park.

Andrew Watson was capped three times for Scotland between 1881 and 1882, and is now believed to have been the first black football (soccer) player to represent his country. He began playing in 1874 and subsequently played for Queens Park. Until this discovery, it had always been maintained that the first black footballer was Arthur Wharton, who played for the English team of Preston North End. But Watson pre-dates him by 11 years. Up until the time of Pele, Andrew Watson was perhaps the most important black player in the world, capable of playing on either side of defence or in midfield. He also went on to become the world's first black footballing administrator.

Andrew Watson

In addition I believe he captained Scotland to a 5-1 victory over England. And he studied physics under the mighty Lord Kelvin.

 

[MCdread]

That seems likely. One surprise I've had, is finding a heap of Portugese love poetry from the 16th c. directed at black/African women being courted by Portugese poets.

Where did you find such a thing?

 

[Richard Cribb]

Well, what about this?
In 1681 Christian Hansen Ernst was appointed post-master in the Norwegian town Kragerø. Not anything extraordinary about that, except for the fact that he was an African.Ernst was a former page of the Danish count Ulrik Fredrik Gyldenløve, governor of Norway (Norway was a part of Denmark back then) and got his appointment as a reward for his good and faithful service.
We can only speculate about public reaction, since we don't know much about Ernst except the above mentioned(if somebody could provide some more information I would be delighted), but his life ended tragically - he was stabbed to death only some years later.

 

[Provolution]

He was stabbed to death when delivering mail to a Norwegian honkie that never had seen a black man before when delivering mail. So ended the life of the first African in Norway.