Space 5 - Old hands can be newbs too, getting back in the game

[leif erikson]

I would do some trading of our only resource to an overseas civ as it gives us positive diplo point while not hurting us. Siam has 4 Cotton, we can trade him Pearls for it and still keep the same happiness level.

We have a mountain of Iron, think we should trade some of it to an overseas civ for Gold and/or GPT to upgrade our Swords to Longswords. Build a group of Trebs and go gets us some more resources to trade.

Agree with Great Engineer, should use him for Porcelain Tower and then hand build Notre Dame in capital, 12 turns. Think we should go for Scientific Theory next, through Machinery for XBows, and time Oxford to claim Scientific Theory once we complete Economics.

In the meantime, perhaps prepare for war again and take out Athens and Great Wall, or Nappy and all that fine Wine, more Marble and Spices.

 

[mad-bax]

Agreed. ND is something of a risk judging by the power of the overseas civs, but we got HS even though we were several techs past it before starting. ND is coveted by the AI however (in my limited experience). Remember that Porcelain tower will give us a scientist. Worth about 1200 beakers (8 X 150 turns) if we build an academy. How much does Scientific Theory cost?

Anyhoo, unit building is a bit slow, and we need 600g for upgrades, and we are currently at ~35gpt. I don't think we can do war in the next turnset. In fact, I think SS should eject a settler for ainwoods SW spot - we'll have Notre Dame by then.

The X-man is up since Ted is obviously not able to join in at the moment.

 

[leif erikson]

If we are worried about getting Notre Dame, we could use the GE for Notre Dame and hand build the Porcelain Tower?

 

[mad-bax]

Yep - that was my question a few posts ago. Maybe it is a better call. The happy faces give us more game options and PT will be a near certainty I think. However it is a compromise as the quickest way to space would be PT first. ND is the safe option IMO. I'm torn.

 

[leif erikson]

We need Gold, to purchase Research Agreements, in order to fully utilize PT. Seems like Notre Dame is a better bet at the moment because Gold is going to be needed to upgrade units and wrest control of our continent from Alex, Cathy and Nappy.

 

[mad-bax]

Yes I agree finally. Let's do that.

 

[AlanH]

Ah! I thought I had a breathing space. Forgot that Ted is hors de combat. Do we assume Space is still to busy to catch up? If so, I'll get to it this weekend.

 

[a space oddity]

Yeah, still busy, I'm sorry Alan. I can't see things slowing down soon either.

 

[AlanH]

OK. I think I interpret the recent discussion as follows:

- Complete Hagia Sophia next turn. Choose a Great Engineer.
- Use GE to build Notre Dame
- Trade Pearls to Siam for Cotton for increased influence
- Trade spare Iron overseas for GPT/Gold
- Build Settler for southern city, then Porcelain Tower in M-BR
- Build units elsewhere
- Research Scientific Theory->Machinery

Any other key points? Anything I've misunderstood?

 

[leif erikson]

Scientific Theory is quite a way down the road and Machinery is along that path. So, research to Machinery (cannot remember if other techs are required) and then beeline for Scientific Theory.

Good Luck!

 

[AlanH]

I've opened the save.
We have 3 turns to complete Physics. Machinery is available, and will be 6 turns at current science level.
The path to Scientific Theory is then:
Navigation (available now).
Chivalry (available now)->Acoustics & Banking
Printing Press (available after Machinery)
Economics

 

[AlanH]

Turn 160: 1000 AD
Pre-flight:
Traded Pearls + 3xIron + Open Borders to Siam for Cotton + 72 gold + 2 gpt
Traded 3xIron + Open Borders to Persia for 135 gold
Traded Whales + Open Borders to Japan for Gems + 19 gold + 1 gpt

We now have 357 gold + 40 gpt

There's a worker leaning on his shovel near M-BR. Is he there to replace the farm with a trading post? Or has he just finished the farm? Can't see any references to other plans, so decide to move him south with a view to building roads and stuff for the new planned southern city.

Everything else is ready to roll

Hit Next Turn, keeping a wary eye on Greeks ...

IBT
Greek troop movements on our borders
Hagia Sophia completed.

Turn 161: 1010 AD
Worker asks for order. Click sense him completely the wrong way!
Free Great Person - Great Engineer Nickaus August Otto born in M-BR.
M-BR starts Notre Dame. Otto finishes it.
Caravel proceedes. Meets Harun al-Rashid of Arabia. He seems to have nothing of any value, and his score is even lower than Greece and Russia.
Space Station had completed Swordsman. Starts Longswordsman (13 turns)
New Sword moves north to help discourage Greek troops.

IBT
Notre Dame completes.

Turn 162; 1020 AD
We have 9 happy faces.
M-BR starts Settler (1 turn)
Worker starts Trading Post near Ainwood's Tor

IBT
Physics completed. Trebs!
Greeks have largely disappeared.
Siam and Persia sign a research agreement

Turn 163: 1030 AD
Settler completed in M-BR. Heads south
Start research Machinery (5 turns)
MB-R starts Porcelain Tower (11 turns)

IBT
Someone else has solved Cape Town's barb problems.
Arabia enters Renaissance era

[b[Turn 164: 1040 AD[/b]
Caravel meeds Edinburgh
Discovers Rock of Gibraltar (problems getting through border controls though). One more to find.
We seem to have an embarked Worker in the middle of the ocean. Head him back towards the action.

IBT
Siam enters Renaissance era
Japan and Siam make peace

Turn 165; 1050 AD
Upgrade a Sword to Longsword

IBT
Apparently we have proved the earth is round.
France is renaissance and Russia is allied with Venice

Turn 166: 1060 AD
Caravel finds Lhasa
TK has finished Workshop. Starts Treb. (6 turns)

IBT
Major Russian troop build-up between Alan's Apple and Leif Springs. 2 horses, a chariot archer, 3 pikes and a General. Where are they going? They are all over us like a rash!
Oracle has been built somewhere.

Turn 167: 1070 AD
Decide to upgrade a couple of Swords to Longswords near Alan's Apple as a deterrent in case Russia is getting ideas above its station.
Caravel meets Belgrade
Found Fanatica on the south coast near the Stone and Spices. Buy the Spices tile for 75 gold.
Start building a Workboat.

IBT
Cathy declares on Alex.
Venice and Genoa have joined Cath and Alex respectively on opposite sides of the fight.
We finish Machinery.

Turn 168: 1080 AD
We have seven Russian units to the east of Alan's Apple, and we can see three Greek units to our west. Here's a screenie. Click it for the big version:



Our options: Sit back and watch as they slug it out, or join in on one side or the other. I'm certainly not in favour of taking on Russia and Venice at the moment. We have a fledgling new city right next door to Venice, and that could be very nasty. Join in on the side of Russia? I think not at the moment. Russia has nothing we want. Let's give peace a chance.

Choose Chivalry as the next tech. 4 turns.

IBT
Russians move towards Athens. Alan's Apple gets a new citizen.

Turn 169: 1090 AD
Start a plantation on the southern spices.

IBT
The fighting starts. Russian Pike destroys a Greek cat.
Venice falls out of love with Cath - no longer allies. Venice asks for units for fight against Greece.

France has built Chartres north of Marseille (was that there in the previous turn?). They are getting seriously big!

Turn 170: 1100 AD
Workers down south are building a road to Fanatica, and
Russia has embarked a scout off Fanatica.
Caravel hits ice south of Persia. Will have to turn west, I think.

Handover:

Porcelain Tower in 4 turns, fingers crossed.
Chivalry in 2 turns.
Space Station building a longsword in 2 turns.
Ted's Keep a Treb in 2 turns.
Fanatica builds a workboat in 14, but there will be a forest chop next turn from the spice tile.
Economy is at 423 gold, 51 gpt. We have two happy faces, with spices on the way.
Demographics: We are #1 in Literacy, #2 in score, #7 in approval, 3's and 4's for most other measures. 5 for pop.

We're going to need France's luxuries soon, and Napoleon is getting too big for his wellies anyway.

Here's the save ...

 

[mad-bax]

Good stuff Alan! I haven't looked at the save yet, but will this evening.

How long before we can take on Napoleon?

 

[a space oddity]

Seems like a lot got done!

I would like to post a 'got it', but it wouldn't be fair. Today I'm off to zeeland again. And this week is going to be brutal. So

Roster:
a space oddity - in skip mode
mad-bax
TedJackson - in skip mode
AlanH
leif erikson <-- UP
ainwood

 

[AlanH]

Not sure about the timing for a hit on Napoleon. His army is keeping a very low profile, but he's Renaissance, so presumably he has access to longswords, trebs and knights. We'll be there in two turns.

The military adviser says France are stronger than us, so maybe not yet!

Most of our army is still stationed near Ainwood and Alan, because I was worried about the apparent threats from Alex, then Cath. We currently have 4 swords, 2 pikes, 2 archers and 2 cats that can all be upgraded. We would need 1140 gold to do them all! We have 423 gold at the moment, with 51 per turn. We have three longswords; and one more longsword and a treb will be ready in 2 turns.

 

[mad-bax]

Does the AI always target the weakest unit when defending a city?
In other words, can you put an archer on a grassland tile and put all your "proper" units on tiles with defense bonuses such that the defending city will bombard the archer? this is my anecdotal experience, but wondered if it were real or imagined.

I think three trebs, 3 xbows and a couple of swords is enough to start, but we will need more trebs fairly quickly. I don't think we have to upgrade everything before declaring. However, I do think we need more units to replace those we lose, and if we go for Paris, then we may even need cannon if the city defense gets to 45+ (IMHO - I've tried taking cities this strong with trebs and crossbows and it's messy). Has taken me 3 turns to red-line the city and lost maybe half a dozen units in the process.

So 10 turns will see us with another 4 units maybe (I would build 1 treb and 1 xbow), and enough gold to upgrade most of our units.

I think that ainwood will probably get the war turns. We should agree on what we want to achieve before Leifs turns though. His setup will be crucial.

 

[leif erikson]

Our Military Adviser is telling us that Nappy has a more powerful military than us.
Also, Cathy is quite weak while Alex is somewhere in the middle.

Seems to me that we should consider joining forces with Cathy and taking out Athens, giving us The Great Wall and deterring Nappy some should he attack? That will also release a fairly sizable number of units to head south in support of attacking Nappy.

Once PT completes, we can turn towards producing some units in MB for attacking Nappy.

 

[AlanH]

I did consider going for Greece. We would need to be sure that Nappy does't come at us while we are doing so. I guess Athens could fall in four or five turns if we upgrade the cats and a couple of swords. We need to be careful not to redline it and let Cathy walk in, though.

Archer upgrades are expensive, at 170, so maybe hold back on those until we need them for France..

 

[mad-bax]

I have to say I disagree with going for Cathy or Alex. My view is that we should take on the strongest tribe on our home continent. Letting Napoleon flourish whilst we are pouring hammers and gold into another war will ultimately cost us a lot of turns in launching. We will need 3 or four Trebs now, but in twenty turns we will need 5 or 6 or cannon. It gets harder if we wait, not easier. It has always been this way with Civ. Fighting a stronger AI is no biggie. We've all done it many times. We could Bribe Cathy if we wanted to.
Also, how are we going to take two cities from Alex and then say four from Napoleon. Isn't that about 60 happy faces or more we need to find?

 

[AlanH]

You're prolly right. But, shucks! I just enjoy killing stuff. You don't know how frustrating it was for me to sit back and let Cathy make a pig's ear of attacking Alex.