Spain - Most Useless "Unique" Everything?

[AnotherPacifist]

If it's even possible I would like Rhye to eliminate the bonuses of conquistadors in Europe where they're just another bunch of rowdy cowboys.

 

[Virdrago]

I like to sit 5 Conquistidors in paris with a scout or worker or something sat in Amsterdam, as soon as their troops leave to get some colonies I rush in with them and take their capital the turn I declare war. That city is pretty usefull for spain

And, funnily enough, you recreate the Spanish Netherlands!

 

[kairob]

Yup, I also try to grab Germany if it collapses!

 

[Cossack Captain]

Now that's a post I certainly didn't expect. Spain has the most powerful Uniques in the game, even more so in RFC. I tried it out as a war civ just for fun, but it turns out to be one of the most powerful warring civs in the game!

Power - I like the +2 movement, it let me conquer America in one less turn and ship plenty of troops to and fro. Not the most useless I'd say, depends entirely on how you play. It makes a huge difference if you're attacking Japan or Inca.

Building - I love using castles in RFC because of the bonus trade route. And with the huge bonus to siege weapons and Gunpowder, I really had no trouble conquering Europe with cannons. Economics unlocks free trade (and bans castles) but if you get to Economics too early, all the other civs in the world will still be holding tight to Merchantilism. So the citadels really gave me a huge military boost for 30 turns or so.

Unit - OK, that one really surprised me. IMHO, the Conquistador is one of the best UU's in the game, even more so in RFC because they're one of the few units that can go in jungles! Amphibious attacks are hard even with gunpowder.. but once you can toss some of them in Khmer and Mayan territory, you'll easily win with half as many troops! That and you can get them much earlier than Cavalry. If anything, it's almost unbalanced.

You make strong argument but I still disagree. And you surely exaggerate when you say Spain has the MOST powerful UPs in the game! Just reading over these posts below mine the majority feel that Spain is weak at some level. I am not interested in jungle-mess so I don't care about that for the Conquistador. The wealth of the world is in Europe, North America, and the Middle East simply for oil. Asia is not worth the trouble so the jungle does not interest me.

1 turn less going to the Atlantic is not what I would call a major thing. Besides, before astronomy it is pointless and after 1700 all the good city spots are taken so it becomes useless outside of a short time frame. Compare that to the Russian Winter which makes the enormous territory of Russia almost invulnerable to attack. Or the Germans which can upgrade its troops even from ancient or medival era to modern ones after industrialization for free!! The Turkish one automatically transforms culture into Turkish and it is very useful for the entire game in every era. These three alone tower over the Spanish one.

 

[Panopticon]

I only played one game as the Spanish; I seem to remember that the Conquistadors were quite useful in pillaging European cities in the Americas for the UHV criterion.

 

[say1988]

In my Spain game, I found them quite good at pillaging European cities in Europe, to win the UHV (why fight it out in the New World when you can just crush them in the old).

One thing I love is short range amphibious assaults with expendable transports as my navy almost invariably in not up the the task of defending them. +2 moves is a significant extension of their range when they get slaughtered outside of cities.

Anyways, I would the most useless UP (outside of the necessity for the UHV) is Egypts. Which is passive and quickly outdated.

Though I must agree their UB isn't great, that is because castles aren't worthwhile. The citadels are a great improvement.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Cossack Captain, you do realize that all of Spain's powers are geared towards helping it win the UHV. With extra movement (and the circumnavigation bonus) you can catch any stray English/Dutch/French ship, and if they did found a city in the New World, you can transport troops there in 1-2 turns at most, which helps with conquering them (as they can't resupply their colonies as quick as you can attack them). The cannons (upgraded after citadels/barracks/settled great generals) are perfect for kamikaze missions (extra damage to other units in the cities and quicker bombardment).

Plus conquering Aztecs and Incans is much easier with troops that can heal/fortify in jungle and the Aztec unique unit is not geared towards horsemen, so no defensive bonuses for Aztecs. I always find that the Aztec adventurers are much fewer in number which means that I have to bring my Incan conquistidors up through central America to finish the job quicker.

 

[Muz]

You make strong argument but I still disagree. And you surely exaggerate when you say Spain has the MOST powerful UPs in the game! Just reading over these posts below mine the majority feel that Spain is weak at some level. I am not interested in jungle-mess so I don't care about that for the Conquistador. The wealth of the world is in Europe, North America, and the Middle East simply for oil. Asia is not worth the trouble so the jungle does not interest me.

1 turn less going to the Atlantic is not what I would call a major thing. Besides, before astronomy it is pointless and after 1700 all the good city spots are taken so it becomes useless outside of a short time frame. Compare that to the Russian Winter which makes the enormous territory of Russia almost invulnerable to attack. Or the Germans which can upgrade its troops even from ancient or medival era to modern ones after industrialization for free!! The Turkish one automatically transforms culture into Turkish and it is very useful for the entire game in every era. These three alone tower over the Spanish one.

It depends on how you play. You could say the Mongols, Egyptians, Carthage, Rome, Greece, Mayans have weaker UPs, or you could argue that they're stronger.

IMHO, if you're not a colonizer, then Spain isn't the right civ as it's geared towards colonizing overseas civs almost too well. I think, if abused properly, the bonus to naval movement would even help you conquer China. Oil, spices, gold, silver, all that can be found in Aztec, Incan territory, and SE Asia and Australasia so I don't see how you can say that there's more wealth in Europe and N. America.

Or if you want to conquer Europe, that's fine. The Conquistador is available about a dozen turns earlier than cavalry if I'm not mistaken, and that certainly helped me in knocking the Germans, Dutch, French, and Portuguese out of the European mainland.

Spain was the major superpower in all my games on Monarch. If I have time, I can even try to prove that it's possible on Emperor difficulty

 

[Lokolus]

Conquistadors has a 50% bonus against melee units, which really helps against melee units in the early game (Pikemans).