Speculating on (Historical) Civ Progression

[Navelgazer]

Could "Iceni > Ireland > Scotland" make a good Celtic path?

Potentially, yeah. I doubt we’ll see it, though, at least at launch. Iceni is, from a game-design-perspective, mostly interesting in that it justifies making Boudicca into their leader. The way they’re doing things here, though, they don’t need to give a hypothetical Celtic civ a leader at all, nor do they need a Celtic Civ to make a Boudicca Leader if they want.

And Ireland and Scotland both fit best in the Exploration Age (by my understanding, Scotland lost its independence by bankrupting itself with its colonial empire dreams in Panama.)

I’d really like to see interesting ideas of how to present Ireland in Civ7 (now that we have a better understanding of its mechanics.) Since one of the things that is most noteworthy about Ireland on the world stage is the size and passion of its diaspora, which is tough to depict in this sort of game. That’s one of the reasons I’ve pushed in the past for Grace O’Malley as an Irish Leader, because it gives a distinctive flashpoint around which to build abilities and such, with a very interesting and charismatic leader. But I don’t know that such an idea would work with the way Civs and Leaders are being designed in this game, unfortunately.

 

[Zaarin]

Grace O’Malley

With the deemphasis on heads of state in Civ7, Grace O'Malley seems like an ideal Irish pick.

 

[ggalindo001]

Just seems like low hanging fruit to me. Especially if they will be developing this game for years. The Middle Ages being missing from the game is so glaring. The 3 age system just looks very basic to me

When they announced this, I immediately went to a 4th age major expansion (or 4th/5th) that is Alpha Centauri/Beyond Earth or even something like what Call to Power did.

I could also see a "restructure" here where a 4th age is squeezed in as highlighted in the thread around Middle Ages.

What I hope doesn't happen (or if it does, it isn't part of the official game but an optional turn on) are radically alternative ages (like what Millenium is trying to do) -- like a plague age, or a full dark age, etc. Or some random 4th age that is unpredictable (again, like a global dark age, a global ice age, UFOs arriving age, etc.)

With that said, one thing I am hoping for is "age appropriate" (pun intended) AI -- this could really be defining -- where there is an AI trained in each era with the mechanics of each era in mind. THAT would be a step in the right direction.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

When they announced this, I immediately went to a 4th age major expansion (or 4th/5th) that is Alpha Centauri/Beyond Earth or even something like what Call to Power did.

I could also see a "restructure" here where a 4th age is squeezed in as highlighted in the thread around Middle Ages.

What I hope doesn't happen (or if it does, it isn't part of the official game but an optional turn on) are radically alternative ages (like what Millenium is trying to do) -- like a plague age, or a full dark age, etc. Or some random 4th age that is unpredictable (again, like a global dark age, a global ice age, UFOs arriving age, etc.)

With that said, one thing I am hoping for is "age appropriate" (pun intended) AI -- this could really be defining -- where there is an AI trained in each era with the mechanics of each era in mind. THAT would be a step in the right direction.

Well each age ends with a crisis. It's possible there might be more than one potential crisis at the end of each age. Which would be definitely much better than having multiple parallel ages to choose from

 

[Zaarin]

It's possible there might be more than one potential crisis at the end of each age.

One of the YouTubers--I think it was PotatoMcWhiskey but I am tired and don't remember for certain--said they were told this was the case by Carl.

 

[moondog385]

When they announced this, I immediately went to a 4th age major expansion (or 4th/5th) that is Alpha Centauri/Beyond Earth or even something like what Call to Power did.

I could also see a "restructure" here where a 4th age is squeezed in as highlighted in the thread around Middle Ages.

What I hope doesn't happen (or if it does, it isn't part of the official game but an optional turn on) are radically alternative ages (like what Millenium is trying to do) -- like a plague age, or a full dark age, etc. Or some random 4th age that is unpredictable (again, like a global dark age, a global ice age, UFOs arriving age, etc.)

With that said, one thing I am hoping for is "age appropriate" (pun intended) AI -- this could really be defining -- where there is an AI trained in each era with the mechanics of each era in mind. THAT would be a step in the right direction.

I could see some kind of gimmicky future age coming as DLC later on down the line, but a Middle Age? I really don't know, especially because they've explicitly stated that each civ in the game is balanced around the age it's in already. That would require them to rebalance nearly every civ in the game...again. And somehow have an equal amount of civs in this new age. I would be surprised, personally.

 

[Xandinho]

I was wondering. If Armenia becomes a playable civ, what Age would be most appropriate for it? Given its peak time, the most obvious answer would be Age 1. However, Armenia would work so well as one of the progressions from the Achaemenids that Age 2 would also work well. What do you think?

 

[Zaarin]

I was wondering. If Armenia becomes a playable civ, what Age would be most appropriate for it? Given its peak time, the most obvious answer would be Age 1. However, Armenia would work so well as one of the progressions from the Achaemenids that Age 2 would also work well. What do you think?

I'd put it in Antiquity personally. Arsacid Armenia was definitely a high watermark. Medieval Armenia was mostly dominated by Byzantium and various caliphates. That being said, I could see an argument for the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia for Exploration Age.

 

[Xandinho]

I'd put it in Antiquity personally. Arsacid Armenia was definitely a high watermark. Medieval Armenia was mostly dominated by Byzantium and various caliphates. That being said, I could see an argument for the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia for Exploration Age.

Could Armenia going to Byzantium in Age 2 work well? Or could we have something like Georgia?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Potentially, yeah. I doubt we’ll see it, though, at least at launch. Iceni is, from a game-design-perspective, mostly interesting in that it justifies making Boudicca into their leader.

Boudicca can be a leader in the game without a Iceni civ. I mean, Amina is already present in Civ7 with no sign of a Hausa civ

 

[Avatan]

What worries me is that most major players in the antiquity (Rome, Greece, Egypt) or exploration (Portugal, Spain, Dutch), do not have very dominant incarnation in the modern age. What would even be the bonuses for modern Greece? Greece -> Ottoman -> turkyie would get the game banned.

And that's not even touching the colonial can of worms in N & S America.

I am open to the idea, but I foresee a lot of controversy...

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Greece -> Ottoman -> turkyie would get the game banned.

That would be just one of multiple pathways. You could also go Greece->Byzantium->Italy

 

[Avatan]

That would be just one of multiple pathways. You could also go Greece->Byzantium->Italy

No shade to Italy, has Italy really been a global power since the steam engine? Maybe a SRE-> Germany path?

It just seems so charged and explosive. And then you have to balance everything on top of it!

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

No shade to Italy, has Italy really been a global power since the steam engine? Maybe a SRE-> Germany path?

Most of the civs we see or the ones most people want to see weren't global powers either. But Italy was unified in the post steam engine era and they have definitely been a cultural powerhouse in the modern age

 

[Mazisky]

No shade to Italy, has Italy really been a global power since the steam engine?

Neither is Buganda or many of other modern civs that will be in the game.

 

[Krikkit1]

What worries me is that most major players in the antiquity (Rome, Greece, Egypt) or exploration (Portugal, Spain, Dutch), do not have very dominant incarnation in the modern age. What would even be the bonuses for modern Greece? Greece -> Ottoman -> turkyie would get the game banned.

And that's not even touching the colonial can of worms in N & S America.

I am open to the idea, but I foresee a lot of controversy...

Exploration dominant civs will probably unlock their colonies (Brazil/ Mexico/Argentina as well as a neighboring European power…Modern France/Germany/Britain)

 

[Avatan]

Exploration dominant civs will probably unlock their colonies (Brazil/ Mexico/Argentina as well as a neighboring European power…Modern France/Germany/Britain)

Greek to German or Dutch to French may be a bit hard to swallow, even if I agree this is what makes the most sense.

 

[lt22677]

No shade to Italy, has Italy really been a global power since the steam engine? Maybe a SRE-> Germany path?

It just seems so charged and explosive. And then you have to balance everything on top of it!

I doubt that Buganda, indigenous Polynesians etc... could be considered powers and in any case even if it was not a United nation, Italian culture influenced many in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance (which as you well know was born in Italy)

 

[Mazisky]

I doubt that Buganda, indigenous Polynesians etc... could be considered powers and in any case even if it was not a United nation, Italian culture influenced many in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance (which as you well know was born in Italy)

Yes, Italy was pretty influential back then, so it would fit in the exploration era: Colombo is one if not the most famous character related to exploration, and people like Leonardo, Michelangelo, etc. are pillars of the cultural achivements of that period.

They could also use Venice or Florence as exploration era civilizations and Italians for modern, it would be a very nice path Rome > Venice\Florence > Italy


Florence could definitely be a cultural civilization and Venice an economic one. They fit very much that.

 

[Zaarin]

Could Armenia going to Byzantium in Age 2 work well? Or could we have something like Georgia?

Armenia spent a considerable portion of what the game terms the Exploration Age as a Byzantine province so I could see it. Especially since Armenia was an influential and often highly autonomous province within the empire.